Is Any Denomination Saved?

[BreadOfLife]

I said from scripture. And what makes you think Ignatius would want you to listen to a bishop who was not godly?

"Prosecutors and gendarmerie staged a raid this month into the usually serene offices of the Vatican’s Secretariat of State, seizing computers and caches of documents from archives and employees. Two weeks later, the longtime head of Pope Francis’ security service resigned after leaked reports of alleged financial wrongdoing in the Vatican.

Reports have emerged detailing the movement of Vatican money through slush funds across Europe — and a Vatican investment of more than $250 million into luxury London apartments, brokered through a financier who profited even while the Vatican’s investment tanked."
(0ct 2019)
How about when the Vatican was burning people to death? Should parishioners blindly follow such a church?
Christ is our head, not any fallible man.

Soooo, YOU judge your entire church by ha few bad people - instead of by the body as a whole??

It's a good thing that Jesus wasn't like you - given the fact that out of only TWELVE that He hand-picked - ONE of them was rotten.
That's over 8% of his Apostles.

There are bad people in EVERY ecclesiastical body - and if you spent all of your time hopping from church to church because of it, you would have NO time for Christ. No wonder you're so confused. . .

Have faith in GOD - not men . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Why are you so afraid to show me the verse??

If you;re going to make a sweeping claim like "The church is merely the body of believers" - at LEAST have the courage to present the Scripture verse that supports it.

 

[Renniks]

Who said anything about blindly following anybody?

It was said that the bishops must be followed because they have the authority of Christ. I say not if your bishops and Pope are corrupt. If you have an organization corrupt to the top, teaching falsehoods, you are following the wrong " father." The Pope is not teaching what Christ taught, so how can you be under his authority? The Bible is full of verses about not listening to false teachers.

 

[Renniks]

Soooo, YOU judge your entire church by ha few bad people - instead of by the body as a whole??

A few? How widespread is the corruption? Just what we've seen is horrendous, and I'm sure it's nothing compared to what was hidden.
Just in one state:
"The report estimated more than 300 priests across the state abused at least 1,000 known victims, and it condemned the wider clerical culture that allowed senior priests to turn a blind eye to the abuses, often quietly shuffling offending priests into new dioceses, where they would have unfettered access to new victims."

 

[BreadOfLife]

A few? How widespread is the corruption? Just what we've seen is horrendous, and I'm sure it's nothing compared to what was hidden.
Just in one state:
"The report estimated more than 300 priests across the state abused at least 1,000 known victims, and it condemned the wider clerical culture that allowed senior priests to turn a blind eye to the abuses, often quietly shuffling offending priests into new dioceses, where they would have unfettered access to new victims."

And it's STILL not 8% of the clergy.
By those percentages the Church today is actually doing better than the Apostles during the Gospels . . .

 

[Truther]

That's what I thought you'd say.
Time for another Bible lesson, Einstein . . .

1 Cor. 12:27-31
Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts.

Tongues is ONE of the Spiritual gifts.
It is not the ONLY gift of the Spirit - and is not the ONLY evidence of it.

Your lack of Biblical knowledge is an embarrassment . . .

That is speaking of the gift of known tongues...various known languages that one does not know. As per Pentecost.
The RCC really does not teach you guys anything.
Wow.

 

[Enow]

Why are you so afraid to show me the verse??

If you;re going to make a sweeping claim like "The church is merely the body of believers" - at LEAST have the courage to present the Scripture verse that supports it.

I had shown that to you earlier, which was why I did not post it again, but apparently you had forgotten it. Here it is again without verse 2.

1 Corinthians 11: 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

But I will add more scripture if that was not enough with Him being the head of each believer and thus the head of the body of believers, the church.

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

So that is where I get that the church is merely the body of believers. If Catholics were persecuted and the church is burned down in some foreign country, when 2 or 3 are gathered together in His name you have a "church" which is an assembly of believers. That is the message that Jesus was conveying to the Samaritan at the well regarding her question where they were to go worship God at; the mountains or at the Temple in Jerusalem. And Jesus saying a time is coming for when true worshipers will worship God in spirit and in truth because God is Spirit, meaning believers in Christ can worship Him anywhere by coming to the Son in honoring Him in worship to honor the Father.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This is the standard of judgment on every believer in how they can only honor God the Father by in worship.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Not by the address of the "Trinity" and not by addressing or honoring the Holy Spirit in worship because the indwelling Holy Spirit is to testify of the Son to glorify the Son and He does that thru us in ministry and especially in worship because that is His testimony in worship too.

John 15: 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16: 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: …..

That is how believers can come to God the Father in worship anywhere for why He is not confined to a specific place or building as God is Spirit. So a church is merely a body of believers that can assemble anywhere in coming to God the Father by honoring only the Son in worship in order to honor God the Father by as led by the Spirit of God and the scriptures to do.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is speaking of the gift of known tongues...various known languages that one does not know. As per Pentecost.
The RCC really does not teach you guys anything.
Wow.

WOW.
You're really a LOT more ignorant that I gave you credit for.

Unfortunately for YOU - the discussion about tongues and other gifts of the Spirit doesn't end in 1 Cor. 12. It continues ALL the way through 1 Cor. 14 - and the "tongues" spoken of are NOT about "known tongues" as YOU so ignorantly claim. It is talking about tongues that either have NO public interpretation - or NEED an interpretation in order for them to be efficacious to the congregation.

I gotta ask this because your posts are SO idiotic:
If you have a learning disability - I apologize a thousand times.
If not, and you are simply ignorant - then you really need to enroll in an intensive Bible study . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I had shown that to you earlier, which was why I did not post it again, but apparently you had forgotten it. Here it is again without verse 2.

1 Corinthians 11: 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

But I will add more scripture if that was not enough with Him being the head of each believer and thus the head of the body of believers, the church.

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

So that is where I get that the church is merely the body of believers. If Catholics were persecuted and the church is burned down in some foreign country, when 2 or 3 are gathered together in His name you have a "church" which is an assembly of believers. That is the message that Jesus was conveying to the Samaritan at the well regarding her question where they were to go worship God at; the mountains or at the Temple in Jerusalem. And Jesus saying a time is coming for when true worshipers will worship God in spirit and in truth because God is Spirit, meaning believers in Christ can worship Him anywhere by coming to the Son in honoring Him in worship to honor the Father.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This is the standard of judgment on every believer in how they can only honor God the Father by in worship.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Not by the address of the "Trinity" and not by addressing or honoring the Holy Spirit in worship because the indwelling Holy Spirit is to testify of the Son to glorify the Son and He does that thru us in ministry and especially in worship because that is His testimony in worship too.

John 15: 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16: 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: …..

That is how believers can come to God the Father in worship anywhere for why He is not confined to a specific place or building as God is Spirit. So a church is merely a body of believers that can assemble anywhere in coming to God the Father by honoring only the Son in worship in order to honor God the Father by as led by the Spirit of God and the scriptures to do.

NONE of those verses makes the claim that the Church is "merely the body of believers".
James 2:19 tells us explicitly that even the DEMONS believe in the truth about God. Are THEY part of the Church??

In Matt. 7:21, Jesus differentiates from those who merely "believe" in Him and those who are truly HIS by saying:
“NOT EVERYONE who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY THE ONE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER in heaven.


And, as for your "the Holy Spirit is NOT God" heresy - explain to me the following:
Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to GOD."

Peter called the Holy Spirit "GOD".
Why don't YOU??


While we're at it . . .
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!”
Thomas called Jesus "GOD".
Why don't YOU??

 

[Enow]

NONE of those verses makes the claim that the Church is "merely the body of believers".
James 2:19 tells us explicitly that even the DEMONS believe in the truth about God. Are THEY part of the Church??

In Matt. 7:21, Jesus differentiates from those who merely "believe" in Him and those who are truly HIS by saying:
“NOT EVERYONE who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY THE ONE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER in heaven.


And, as for your "the Holy Spirit is NOT God" heresy - explain to me the following:
Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to GOD."

Peter called the Holy Spirit "GOD".
Why don't YOU??


While we're at it . . .
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!”
Thomas called Jesus "GOD".
Why don't YOU??

I believe your signature below does suggest that you cannot say anything else out of pride of all your years of service, even when proven wrong.

"Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions." - G.K. Chesterton
Exposing anti-Catholic lies online for 17 years . . .

 

[Earburner]

Again and again...no one is saved before the end. Otherwise what is the point of having a race? There are winners and losers in the salvation race. One must first finish the race or be disqualified. Then one is judged by what kind of works were done...whether of the Spirit and eternal...or by the flesh and temporal. Some are to be honoured and others shamed. Some gain...some lose. And that is in the house of God. God judges His people face to face.

The ungodly are a different story.

I suppose the question should be asked: "In Christ, what's the differnce between a Good sinner and a Bad sinner?"
Please see KJV-Matthew 5:20 for the answer.

 

[Episkopos]

I suppose the question should be asked: "In Christ, what's the differnce between a Good sinner and a Bad sinner?"
Please see KJV-Matthew 5:20 for the answer.

Christians come in both categories. But in Christ is no sin at all.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I believe your signature below does suggest that you cannot say anything else out of pride of all your years of service, even when proven wrong.

"Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions." - G.K. Chesterton
Exposing anti-Catholic lies online for 17 years . . .

Not at all.
It simply means that I don't tolerate lies - even for the sake of "unity" because that is FALSE unity.

Everything I have presented is straight out of Scripture - and YOU were unable to prove your point - from Scripture - that the Church is "merely the body of believers".
PROVE me wrong.

 

[Renniks]

And it's STILL not 8% of the clergy.
By those percentages the Church today is actually doing better than the Apostles during the Gospels . . .

Your popes are forever making unbiblical statements. If you can't even trust your head guy who is supposed to speak for God himself, you might have a problem.

 

[Enow]

Not at all.
It simply means that I don't tolerate lies - even for the sake of "unity" because that is FALSE unity.

Everything I have presented is straight out of Scripture - and YOU were unable to prove your point - from Scripture - that the Church is "merely the body of believers".
PROVE me wrong.

Pride would keep anyone from proving you wrong, and you know it. You can see that in others and so I find it doubtful that you cannot see it in you doing that very same thing. You know what you are doing and that is having a one sided argument with those you oppose. Game over.

 

[Illuminator]

Pride would keep anyone from proving you wrong, and you know it. You can see that in others and so I find it doubtful that you cannot see it in you doing that very same thing. You know what you are doing and that is having a one sided argument with those you oppose. Game over.

In other words, you don't think Catholics have a right that you grant to yourself...the right to be heard.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your popes are forever making unbiblical statements. If you can't even trust your head guy who is supposed to speak for God himself, you might have a problem.

Such as??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Pride would keep anyone from proving you wrong, and you know it. You can see that in others and so I find it doubtful that you cannot see it in you doing that very same thing. You know what you are doing and that is having a one sided argument with those you oppose. Game over.

I was referring to his signature.

""Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions." - G.K. Chesterton
Exposing anti-Catholic lies online for 17 years . . ."

For him to say that, he can never be proven wrong after all these years to maintain that signature, so pride would be the temptation to keep him from admitting otherwise.

As for his right to be heard, that wasn't the issue. That signature can make any one suspcious that he will never be open to anything but maintaining that pride. So everything is not a open discussion with him like iron sharpens iron thing, but a one sided "argument" from him.

He is free to continue as such, but it is what it is.

My signature line is aimed at those who spew lies and falsehoods.
I have absolutely NO problem discussing truth with anyone.

Here is an example is the idiotic lies that you anti-Catholics regurgitate here on a DAILY basis:
Catholics "worship" Mary.
Catholics "worship" statues.
Catholics "worship" the Pope.
"Tens of millions" were "murdered" during the Inquisitions.
The Catholic Church started in the 4th century with Constantine as its first Pope.
The Catholic Church "added" Books to the Bible - and on and on and on . . .

And you wonder why I have no tolerance for lies . . .

 

[Enow]

In other words, you don't think Catholics have a right that you grant to yourself...the right to be heard.

I was referring to his signature.

""Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions." - G.K. Chesterton
Exposing anti-Catholic lies online for 17 years . . ."

For him to say that, he can never be proven wrong after all these years to maintain that signature, so pride would be the temptation to keep him from admitting otherwise.

As for his right to be heard, that wasn't the issue. That signature can make any one suspcious that he will never be open to anything but maintaining that pride. So everything is not a open discussion with him like iron sharpens iron thing, but a one sided "argument" from him.

He is free to continue as such, but it is what it is.

 

[Enow]

My signature line is aimed at those who spew lies and falsehoods.
I have absolutely NO problem discussing truth with anyone.

Here is an example is the idiotic lies that you anti-Catholics regurgitate here on a DAILY basis:
Catholics "worship" Mary.
Catholics "worship" statues.
Catholics "worship" the Pope.
"Tens of millions" were "murdered" during the Inquisitions.
The Catholic Church started in the 4th century with Constantine as its first Pope.
The Catholic Church "added" Books to the Bible - and on and on and on . . .

And you wonder why I have no tolerance for lies . . .

""Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions." - G.K. Chesterton
Exposing anti-Catholic lies online for 17 years . . ."

For 17 years? Sounds like pride to me.

There is an anti-Catholic saying that Catholics talk out of both sides of their mouths.

When you defend the practice towards Mary, you can't prove that they are abstaining from all appearances of evil. The world can see them treating Mary at that idol, and Protestant Christians can see Catholics treating Mary at that idol so Catholics are hardly heeding Paul's words to abstain from all appearances of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

You may say it doesn't matter what others see because they are in error in seeing that, but yet you are called to be a light to the world for why you are to abstain from all appearances of evil so sinners can depart from their idol worships and for Catholic & Protestant Christians not to stumble either. What we have here is an epic fail of the CC, but pride will have them keep on doing it just as your pride will in not admitting that failure.