Is believing/faith a work ?

[brightfame52]

If faith is a work, how great is that work?

If Salvation is by grace, how great is that grace?

We are not bound to one or the other.

This is a compromise with salvation by works, which is a false gospel !

 

[brightfame52]

wynona

I'm a bit confused as to how this means faith is a work. Faith isn't of ourselves.

Correct, its not of ourselves, but many people say it is.

Faith comes by hearing.

Correct, however where does the ability to hear come from ?

We wouldn't have come up with the gospel on our own.

Correct, but what is the Gospel ?

Are there Scriptures that are against the Scriptures I quoted?

I will look at them again

 

[brightfame52]

wynona posted

Romans 4:5​

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Hi, so how do you understand this verse ? How does God Justify the ungodly ?

 

[Wynona]

wynona posted



Hi, so how do you understand this verse ? How does God Justify the ungodly ?

No one can be justified apart from faith in God who made a way for us to be cleansed from every sin in our past through Jesus' sacrificing Himself on the cross.

We can't cancel out our sin by doing lawful things. God has to pardon us.

 

[brightfame52]

wynona

No one can be justified apart from faith in God who made a way for us to be cleansed from every sin in our past through Jesus' sacrificing Himself on the cross.

I disagree with you. Those who Christ died for are Justified before God on that basis alone. His sacrifice cleansed them from all sin, purged them away Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

So when He purged the sins of the elect, they were Justified from them, and He sat down having finished that work for them. Their faith had nothing to do with it, in fact they were ungodly !

 

[brightfame52]

wyona

We can't cancel out our sin by doing lawful things. God has to pardon us.

This is true, but Christs death alone does cancel out sins and provides forgiveness !

 

[Wynona]

wynona



I disagree with you. Those who Christ died for are Justified before God on that basis alone. His sacrifice cleansed them from all sin, purged them away Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

So when He purged the sins of the elect, they were Justified from them, and He sat down having finished that work for them. Their faith had nothing to do with it, in fact they were ungodly !

wyona


This is true, but Christs death alone does cancel out sins and provides forgiveness !

So you're saying faith isn't required for the elect to be justified?

 

[brightfame52]

So you're saying faith isn't required for the elect to be justified?

Yes not before God. Christs death alone is enough for that. Do you agree ?

 

[Wynona]

Yes not before God. Christs death alone is enough for that. Do you agree ?

No. Faith is required. Romans 3 is a good chapter for this. Also,

Hebrews 11:6
​

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


The elect are those God already knew would respond in faith. Not those who don't respond in faith.

 

[brightfame52]

No. Faith is required. Romans 3 is a good chapter for this. Also,

Hebrews 11:6​

​

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


The elect are those God already knew would respond in faith. Not those who don't respond in faith.

I hate to say it ms Wynona but you deny the Justifying death of Christ, and promote salvation by the work of man !

 

[Wynona]

I hate to say it ms Wynona but you deny the Justifying death of Christ, and promote salvation by the work of man !

A heavy accusation mr brightframe. But you still didn't try to prove your point with Scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

A heavy accusation mr brightframe. But you still didn't try to prove your point with Scripture.

Its not an accusation, its a fact, No its not my job to prove truth to a person, that's up to God, and I have said enough in this thread to make my points.

 

[Wynona]

Its not an accusation, its a fact, No its not my job to prove truth to a person, that's up to God, and I have said enough in this thread to make my points.

It's not a fact. I don't promote salvation by works. Just saying that doesn't make it true.

 

[brightfame52]

It's not a fact. I don't promote salvation by works. Just saying that doesn't make it true.

Yes you do, you may not think you do, but you do. I wouldnt be a faithful witness to not tell you.

 

[Wynona]

Yes you do, you may not think you do, but you do. I wouldnt be a faithful witness to not tell you.

I'm glad you're coming from concern. But Im only interested in an honest discussion about the topic at hand. So far in this thread you've engaged only to shut down disagreements rather than addressing them fairly.

Since you already said you're done explaining, maybe its best I call it a day on this thread.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm glad you're coming from concern. But Im only interested in an honest discussion about the topic at hand. So far in this thread you've engaged only to shut down disagreements rather than addressing them fairly.

Since you already said you're done explaining, maybe its best I call it a day on this thread.

Take care

 

[Gottservant]

This is a compromise with salvation by works, which is a false gospel !

No, its just a fact, that in innocence (obtained by forgiveness) the two are distinct.

Salvation is a down-payment, on what we are called to do.

Faith is accepting the payment (and being diligent to justify it).

 

[brightfame52]

No, its just a fact, that in innocence (obtained by forgiveness) the two are distinct.

Salvation is a down-payment, on what we are called to do.

Faith is accepting the payment (and being diligent to justify it).

This is works !

 

[bbyrd009]

wynona



Correct, its not of ourselves, but many people say it is.



Correct, however where does the ability to hear come from ?



Correct, but what is the Gospel ?



I will look at them again

when you reply like this we lose the link to wyn's post!
"Are there Scriptures that are against the Scriptures I quoted?"
yes, virtually always. Weird huh

I disagree with you. Those who Christ died for are Justified before God on that basis alone. His sacrifice cleansed them from all sin, purged them away Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

you might find this changing on you fwiw
for now you conflate the two, but that might not be true

 

[bbyrd009]

"We can't cancel out our sin by doing lawful things. God has to pardon us."
Furthermore the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgement to the Son