Is believing/faith a work ?

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stunnedbygrace

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We who have been given the Spirit will be judged first, and we will be judged harder.
Thats why we judge ourselves now and why we do not judge those outside. That’s why we fear God and keep ourselves humble. It’s the parts we don’t yet see (because of leaven) that harm us most if we don’t keep ourselves humble towards God and our brother.

So many harmful doctrines and leaven. So many.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Some verses speak of the first resurrection and some of the second just as some verses speak of holiness and some of righteousness. One tablet of the commands is loving God and the other is loving others. Some verses speak of before the thousand years and some speak of after the thousand years. Some verses speak of during the millennium and some of after the millennium.
You have to cut properly, rightly divide.
 
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brightfame52

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.
How do people who have no access to Greek distionaries and such know what "works" are?

Are works bad?

Is it profitable to argue over words?

.
.
Thats Gods work to equip men to teach His word for His People to learn. Eph 4:8-15

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
 

brightfame52

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stunnedbygrace

You don’t mention the “through trust/faith“ part. By grace, through trust/faith.

I have mentioned it a many of times, faith comes from grace, its not of oneself, but if you disagree and make faith/trust as something you did, apart from grace, then you are promoting salvation by your works, your act out of the flesh.
 

stunnedbygrace

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stunnedbygrace



I have mentioned it a many of times, faith comes from grace, its not of oneself, but if you disagree and make faith/trust as something you did, apart from grace, then you are promoting salvation by your works, your act out of the flesh.
Saved by grace/the power of God, through trust/faith.

But NOW what? Because there are too many warnings of seeing that our own hearts do not become evil and unbelieving as did Israel after He saved them. You don’t just stop all forward motion. That will keep men in the desert and not entering into what God has prepared for us NOW.
 

brightfame52

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Yet I have no grounds for boasting, for faith is NOT a work

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Works in juxtaposition with faith, which is not a work.

Bless you
J.
Faith is a work, the act of believing is something done by the person. So for instance, if you insist God saved you from your sins because of your act of faith or believing, you are trusting in your works, on something you did, its as simple as that friend.

Works in juxtaposition with faith, which is not a work.

Only when Faith is acknowledged to be the act of the saved regenerate person, and not the unregenerate person.
 

Johann

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Faith is a work, the act of believing is something done by the person. So for instance, if you insist God saved you from your sins because of your act of faith or believing, you are trusting in your works, on something you did, its as simple as that friend.
Incorrect

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

τη γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως και τουτο ουκ εξ υμων θεου το δωρον

Faith is NOT a work, if it was, then you may boast.

Through faith - the hand which apprehends Christ unto salvation, nerved by the power of Christ's resurrection (Eph_1:19-20; Php_3:10), whereby we are 'raised together' with him (Eph_2:6; Col_2:12). A reads 'through your (literally, 'the:' 'Aleph (') B Delta G omit) faith,' which accepts "grace." Christ alone is the meritorious agent.

through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; salvation is through faith, not as a cause or condition of salvation, or as what adds anything to the blessing itself; but it is the way, or means, or instrument, which God has appointed, for the receiving and enjoying it, that so it might appear to be all of grace; and this faith is not the produce of man's free will and power, but it is the free gift of God; and therefore salvation through it is consistent with salvation by grace;

Shalom
J.
 
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brightfame52

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Incorrect

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

τη γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως και τουτο ουκ εξ υμων θεου το δωρον

Faith is NOT a work, if it was, then you may boast.

Through faith - the hand which apprehends Christ unto salvation, nerved by the power of Christ's resurrection (Eph_1:19-20; Php_3:10), whereby we are 'raised together' with him (Eph_2:6; Col_2:12). A reads 'through your (literally, 'the:' 'Aleph (') B Delta G omit) faith,' which accepts "grace." Christ alone is the meritorious agent.

through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; salvation is through faith, not as a cause or condition of salvation, or as what adds anything to the blessing itself; but it is the way, or means, or instrument, which God has appointed, for the receiving and enjoying it, that so it might appear to be all of grace; and this faith is not the produce of man's free will and power, but it is the free gift of God; and therefore salvation through it is consistent with salvation by grace;

Shalom
J.
Sorry, Faith is a work, a believing act !
 

Gottservant

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Sorry, Faith is a work, a believing act !

As I said earlier, faith is the spirit of a work. It cannot supplant a work; neither can it not inspire a work (an actual work).

As hungry as we were for sin, so we become that much more hungry for work, when we are saved.

Pointing to spiritual work (faith) is a work, but it is by no means the greatest of works!
 

Ernest T. Bass

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A rethink is in order....
except a man be born of water and of the Spirit: these are, מלות שנות, "two words", which express the same thing, as Kimchi observes in many places in his commentaries, and signify the grace of the Spirit of God.


The Vulgate Latin and Ethiopic versions read, "the Holy Spirit", and so Nonnus; and who doubtless is intended:

by "water", is not meant material water, or baptismal water; for water baptism is never expressed by water only, without some additional word, which shows, that the ordinance of water baptism is intended: nor has baptism any regenerating influence in it; a person may be baptized, as Simon Magus was, and yet not born again; and it is so far from having any such virtue, that a person ought to be born again, before he is admitted to that ordinance:


and though submission to it is necessary, in order to a person's entrance into a Gospel church state; yet it is not necessary to the kingdom of heaven, or to eternal life and salvation: such a mistaken sense of this text, seems to have given the first birth and rise to infant baptism in the African churches; who taking the words in this bad sense, concluded their children must be baptized, or they could not be saved;

whereas by "water" is meant, in a figurative and metaphorical sense, the grace of God, as it is elsewhere; see Eze_36:25. Which is the moving cause of this new birth, and according to which God begets men again to, a lively hope, and that by which it is effected; for it is by the grace of God, and not by the power of man's free will, that any are regenerated, or made new creatures: and if Nicodemus was an officer in the temple, that took care to provide water at the feasts, as Dr. Lightfoot thinks, and as it should seem Nicodemon ben Gorion was, by the story before related of him;

See Gill on Joh_3:1; very pertinently does our Lord make mention of water, it being his own element: regeneration is sometimes ascribed to God the Father, as in 1Pe_1:3, and sometimes to the Son, 1Jn_2:29 and here to the Spirit, as in Tit_3:5, who convinces of sin, sanctifies, renews, works faith, and every other grace; begins and carries on the work of grace, unto perfection;
=================================

he cannot enter into the kingdom of God; and unless a man has this work of his wrought on his soul, as he will never understand divine and spiritual things, so he can have no right to Gospel ordinances, or things appertaining to the kingdom of God; nor can he be thought to have passed from death to life, and to have entered into an open state of grace, and the kingdom of it; or that living and dying so, he shall ever enter into the kingdom of heaven; for unless a man is regenerated, he is not born heir apparent to it; and without internal holiness, shall not enter into it, enjoy it, or see God.
Gill
Chrysostom, with whom the greater part of expounders agree, makes the word Water refer to baptism. The meaning would then be, that by baptism we enter into the kingdom of God, because in baptism we are regenerated by the Spirit of God. Hence arose the belief of the absolute necessity of baptism, in order to the hope of eternal life. But though we were to admit that Christ here speaks of baptism, yet we ought not to press his words so closely as to imagine that he confines salvation to the outward sign; but, on the contrary, he connects the Water with the Spirit, because under that visible symbol he attests and seals that newness of life which God alone produces in us by his Spirit.

[ It is true that, by neglecting baptism, we are excluded from salvation; and in this sense I acknowledge that it is necessary;]
=====^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I put this in brackets, since Calvin seems to contradict himself......


>>>but it is absurd to speak of the hope of salvation as confined to the sign. So far as relates to this passage, I cannot bring myself to believe that Christ speaks of baptism; for it would have been inappropriate.

We must always keep in remembrance the design of Christ, which we have already explained; namely, that he intended to exhort Nicodemus to newness of life, because he was not capable of receiving the Gospel, until he began to be a new man. It is, therefore, a simple statement, that we must be born again, in order that we may be the children of God, and that the Holy Spirit is the Author of this second birth.
Gill is a Calvinist and reads Calvinism INTO contexts. As I posted in another thread, proper interpretaion REQUIRES a word be accepted at its literal face value unless something in the context proves the word to be used in some figurative sense. There is NOTHING, NOT ONE THING in the context of Jn 3:5 that "water" means anything other than literal water or that "Spirit" means anything other than literal Spirit. It is those who have allowed themselves to be deceived by faith onlyism who cannot take the verse at face value therefore because of nothing more than THEOLOGICAL BIAS they must make Jn 3:5 conform to their bias.

The underlying Greek word for water in Jn 3:5 is hydor as it is translated in Jn 3:23 "And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized." John was not baptizing near Aenon because there was much Spirit there but much water. There is an obvious theological bias and nothing more in trying to make water mean anything other than literal water. Nothing in the context of Jn 3:5,23 has water meaning anything other than literal water.
 

CadyandZoe

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My Testimony is that Salvation is by Grace apart from the works of men. But as soon as you condition Salvation on anything you do, believe, repent, obey , you then condition salvation on man and what he does, that's apostacy from Grace friend.
This is why we affirm that endurance in faith is a miracle of God.
 

brightfame52

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As I said earlier, faith is the spirit of a work. It cannot supplant a work; neither can it not inspire a work (an actual work).

As hungry as we were for sin, so we become that much more hungry for work, when we are saved.

Pointing to spiritual work (faith) is a work, but it is by no means the greatest of works!
Again Faith/Believing is something we do, so by definition its a classified work, so, if you or I say we are saved because of our act of believing, thats advocating salvation by our works.
 

Gottservant

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Again Faith/Believing is something we do, so by definition its a classified work, so, if you or I say we are saved because of our act of believing, thats advocating salvation by our works.

Not distinguishing faith and believing does you a disservice.

I did not say faith was not a work, I qualified that it is a 'kind' of work. There are things it is compatible with and things not. Saying faith means you are no longer interested in work, is a lie.

What work we do, we do for the love of it, if you miss this, you need faith again, but not renewed faith, rather the faith you already had (as Jesus says to the first church in Revelation "you have lost your first love", indicating their attitude to their faith was lacking)
 

brightfame52

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Faith becomes a work, a meritorious work at that whenever its taught that Christ died for everyone, yet nobody is actually saved by that, His death merely made getting saved available or possible, but when someone adds their work of Faith or believing, that made them saved !

These will say though Christs death was a payment for sin, yet nobody is actually saved by it ! 34
 

brightfame52

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Not distinguishing faith and believing does you a disservice.

I did not say faith was not a work, I qualified that it is a 'kind' of work. There are things it is compatible with and things not. Saying faith means you are no longer interested in work, is a lie.

What work we do, we do for the love of it, if you miss this, you need faith again, but not renewed faith, rather the faith you already had (as Jesus says to the first church in Revelation "you have lost your first love", indicating their attitude to their faith was lacking)
It doesnt matter how you spin it, if one says getting saved is conditioned on my faith and or believing, its a work merit salvation we promote, and void of grace.
 

Gottservant

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It doesnt matter how you spin it, if one says getting saved is conditioned on my faith and or believing, its a work merit salvation we promote, and void of grace.
Remember what Jesus said about "making the commandment of God of no effect through your tradition", you are saying you have faith and want to affirm that it is God's grace in you - but then you stop there! Actually the grace of God is an inspiration and you do it a disservice by suggesting that what you get is a blank slate, nothinng more. I am not saying "I have done grace", I am saying "grace has been done in me" - the former suggests that I am my own god, the latter suggests that something good is coming.

At what point, (and this is a different issue to grace) do you expect something good will be coming, because of the grace that was done in you?
 

brightfame52

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Remember what Jesus said about "making the commandment of God of no effect through your tradition", you are saying you have faith and want to affirm that it is God's grace in you - but then you stop there! Actually the grace of God is an inspiration and you do it a disservice by suggesting that what you get is a blank slate, nothinng more. I am not saying "I have done grace", I am saying "grace has been done in me" - the former suggests that I am my own god, the latter suggests that something good is coming.

At what point, (and this is a different issue to grace) do you expect something good will be coming, because of the grace that was done in you?
Again, you can spin it anyway you want, bottom line, if you condition salvation on anything you did, its promoting salvation by works and forsakes Grace Salvation.
 

mailmandan

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Incorrect

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

τη γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως και τουτο ουκ εξ υμων θεου το δωρον

Faith is NOT a work, if it was, then you may boast.

Through faith - the hand which apprehends Christ unto salvation, nerved by the power of Christ's resurrection (Eph_1:19-20; Php_3:10), whereby we are 'raised together' with him (Eph_2:6; Col_2:12). A reads 'through your (literally, 'the:' 'Aleph (') B Delta G omit) faith,' which accepts "grace." Christ alone is the meritorious agent.

through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; salvation is through faith, not as a cause or condition of salvation, or as what adds anything to the blessing itself; but it is the way, or means, or instrument, which God has appointed, for the receiving and enjoying it, that so it might appear to be all of grace; and this faith is not the produce of man's free will and power, but it is the free gift of God; and therefore salvation through it is consistent with salvation by grace;

Shalom
J.
Faith is certainly not just another work. Saved through faith, not works, (Ephesians 2:8,9) draws a clear distinction between the two. There are those (works-salvationists) who insist on calling faith a work in order to justify their false gospel of turning faith into just another work in a series of works in a quest to obtain salvation by works. Then you have those (5 point Calvinists) who insist on calling faith a work in order to justify their belief that we exercise no choice in the matter of choosing to place our faith in Christ for salvation and God fatalistically determines who will have faith. These are two extremes of the pendulum swinging too far in either direction.

Now although it is our responsibility to choose to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief, saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in and enables us, (John 6:44,65) we would NEVER come to saving faith in Christ all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to have faith, we must choose to have faith in Christ. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.
 

Johann

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Faith is certainly not just another work. Saved through faith, not works, (Ephesians 2:8,9) draws a clear distinction between the two. There are those (works-salvationists) who insist on calling faith a work in order to justify their false gospel of turning faith into just another work in a series of works in a quest to obtain salvation by works. Then you have those (5 point Calvinists) who insist on calling faith a work in order to justify their belief that we exercise no choice in the matter of choosing to place our faith in Christ for salvation and God fatalistically determines who will have faith. These are two extremes of the pendulum swinging too far in either direction.

Now although it is our responsibility to choose to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief, saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in and enables us, (John 6:44,65) we would NEVER come to saving faith in Christ all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to have faith, we must choose to have faith in Christ. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.
I fully concur, but lately we need to exercise our discernment more acutely than ever before.
 
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Johann

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I fully concur, but lately we need to exercise our discernment more acutely than ever before.
Then we have scholars here who are talking from both sides of the mouth, the simple gospel message is not "deep" enough and we need ancient rabbinical hermeneutics to "decipher" the scriptures.
 
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