Is believing/faith a work ?

[brightfame52]

Faith is certainly not just another work. Saved through faith, not works, (Ephesians 2:8,9) draws a clear distinction between the two. There are those (works-salvationists) who insist on calling faith a work in order to justify their false gospel of turning faith into just another work in a series of works in a quest to obtain salvation by works. Then you have those (5 point Calvinists) who insist on calling faith a work in order to justify their belief that we exercise no choice in the matter of choosing to place our faith in Christ for salvation and God fatalistically determines who will have faith. These are two extremes of the pendulum swinging too far in either direction.

Now although it is our responsibility to choose to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief, saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in and enables us, (John 6:44,65) we would NEVER come to saving faith in Christ all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to have faith, we must choose to have faith in Christ. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.

This is promoting salvation by works, by conditioning salvation on what man does.

 

[mailmandan]

This is promoting salvation by works, by conditioning salvation on what man does.

Choosing to receive a free gift is not works salvation. By accepting a gift at Christmas time does that mean you worked for the gift?

 

[Johann]

Choosing to receive a free gift is not works salvation. By accepting a gift at Christmas time does that mean you worked for the gift?

Well said, and misunderstanding abounds.
They read the first two words, not sentences, and already have an answer.
I am in need of humor, listening to John Peterson.
Shalom
J.

 

[brightfame52]

Choosing to receive a free gift is not works salvation. By accepting a gift at Christmas time does that mean you worked for the gift?

Sorry but it is works salvation. If you condition salvation on anything you do, it defaults to works, and you may as well kiss Salvation by Grace through Faith good by !

 

[brightfame52]

Choosing to receive a free gift is not works salvation. By accepting a gift at Christmas time does that mean you worked for the gift?

See you saying in essence its your act of receiving that made the difference in receiving the benefit of the gift. Again thats works

 

[mailmandan]

See you saying in essence its your act of receiving that made the difference in receiving the benefit of the gift. Again thats works

A free gift must either be accepted or rejected and not forced and Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28)

 

[brightfame52]

A free gift must either be accepted or rejected and not forced and Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28)

Like I said, you are saying your act of receiving is what gives you the benefit of the gift, thats works. I believe and scripture teaches that I receive the Gift of Salvation because God gave it, in other words God giving me the Gift and me receiving it are one and the same. Jn 3:27
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

God gets the credit for me receiving it, I was passive.

 

[brightfame52]

A free gift must either be accepted or rejected and not forced and Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28)

If your act of receiving is what gave you the benefit of salvation, then your act of receiving became the meritorious cause of your salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

Like I said, you are saying your act of receiving is what gives you the benefit of the gift, thats works. I believe and scripture teaches that I receive the Gift of Salvation because God gave it, in other words God giving me the Gift and me receiving it are one and the same. Jn 3:27
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

God gets the credit for me receiving it, I was passive.

So God fatalistically determines who will receive the gift of eternal life and who will not and everyone is 100% passive in regards to choosing to accept the gift? You actually believe that? God draws and enables and man chooses and God still gets the credit.

 

[mailmandan]

See you saying in essence its your act of receiving that made the difference in receiving the benefit of the gift. Again thats works

So anything short of fatalistic determination = works salvation to you? We simply go through life hoping that we are one of the lucky one's that God has fatalistically determined to be saved? No point in preaching the gospel if that were the case. We would just be robots.

 

[brightfame52]

So God fatalistically determines who will receive the gift of eternal life and who will not and everyone is 100% passive in regards to choosing to accept the gift? You actually believe that? God draws and enables and man chooses and God still gets the credit.

You sound confusing. Its simple, If you condition salvation on anything you do, its works, meritorious. You appear to condition your salvation on your act of accepting a gift, then Im here to tell you, thats works.

 

[brightfame52]

So anything short of fatalistic determination = works salvation to you? We simply go through life hoping that we are one of the lucky one's that God has fatalistically determined to be saved? No point in preaching the gospel if that were the case. We would just be robots.

Anytime you make something you do, the bases for God saving you, its works.

 

[Kermos]

If man can only repent if God enables him to repent then that makes God culpable for the impenitent yet God has no such culpability. And again it makes NO SENSE to command men to repent if man cannot possibly do so. John says God's commands are not grievous (cruel) yet giving commands impossible to obey would be grevious in every sense of the word. But the command to repent implies both ability and accountability on the part of man.

Calvinism has no basis in the Bible nor logic:
--it makes man to be innocent victims of an evil, sadistic, cruel God that requires man to do the impossible
--it makes God a respecter of persons when He is not (Acts 10:24-35)
--it makes the great commission in taking the gospel to men useless, meaninglessActs 11:18 granted means to give opportunity. God gave the Gentiles the opportunity to have life by giving, granting them the avenue of repentance. Yet it was still encumbent upon the Gentiles to repent...some did but some did not take advantage of what God granted them.


Again, Psa 2:8 God would give, grant the Gentile nations to Christ as an inheritence. Yet we see from Acts 10 when the gospel first went to the Gentiles not every Gentile was universally unconditionally given, granted to Christ. Only those that obeyed God's plan of salvation were the one given, granted to Christ. Therefore when God is said to give or grant some thing, then that is expressing God's role in the salvation of man in providing what is needed for man to be saved, but it is still up to man to obey that God has given, granted.

Your very first word of your post is error, but then your sentence continues your deception. See the Word of God clarifies this fact with:

"I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)
​

See how you disagree with the Word of God who says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

This following sentence properly states the Truth (John 14:6) that your heart distorts in your first sentence:

Since man can only repent when God grants repentance in man, even causing man to be able to righteously hear the command to repent, then God is gracious and merciful and wonderful to bring about the blessing of salvation of even a single one of the creatures that God created; however, a man is culpable for the sins of his evil heart against God such as a man rejecting the Son and not receiving the Son's sayings to the man's own eternal punishment.
​

You are deceiving about the meaning of the word "grant", even after you were shown the proper definition of "grant" as shown in the post to which you replied and in the following.

See that you wrote "Acts 11:18 when God granted repentence unto life to the Gentiles describes God's role in the salvation of the Gentiles by giving the Gentiles an opportunity to have sins forgiven" which results in your heart's adulterated "Well then, God has granted to offer to the Gentiles also the opportunity for repentance that leads to life." (the word of Ernest T. Bass nullifying Apostolic testimony); however, the Apostles testified "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18).

Get this, grant is defined as "to transfer", "to bestow", and "to confer". The Apostles used granted in the context of authority, specifically God, conferring repentance into subordinates, specifically Gentile persons; in other words, the Apostles convey the spiritual Truth (John 14:6) that God causes repentance in a person.

See how weak and ineffectual your heart makes God out to be with your "some did not take advantage of what God granted them", so God is so wracked with weakness that God’s granting of repentance falls apart and is smashed to pieces by the creature - according to your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19).

 

[Johann]

Your very first word of your post is error, but then your sentence continues your deception. See the Word of God clarifies this fact with:

​

"I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)​

​

See how you disagree with the Word of God who says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

This following sentence properly states the Truth (John 14:6) that your heart distorts in your first sentence:

​

Since man can only repent when God grants repentance in man, even causing man to be able to righteously hear the command to repent, then God is gracious and merciful and wonderful to bring about the blessing of salvation of even a single one of the creatures that God created; however, a man with an evil heart sins against God by rejecting the Son and not receiving the Son's sayings to the man's own eternal punishment.​

​

You are deceiving about the meaning of the word "grant", even after you were shown the proper definition of "grant" as shown in the post to which you replied and in the following.

See that you wrote "Acts 11:18 when God granted repentence unto life to the Gentiles describes God's role in the salvation of the Gentiles by giving the Gentiles an opportunity to have sins forgiven" which results in your heart's adulterated "Well then, God has granted to offer to the Gentiles also the opportunity for repentance that leads to life." (the word of Ernest T. Bass nullifying Apostolic testimony); however, the Apostles testified "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18).

Get this, grant is defined as "to transfer", "to bestow", and "to confer". The Apostles used granted in the context of authority, specifically God, conferring repentance into subordinates, specifically Gentile persons; in other words, the Apostles convey the spiritual Truth (John 14:6) that God causes repentance in a person.

See how weak and ineffectual your heart makes God out to be with your "some did not take advantage of what God granted them", so God is so wracked with weakness that God’s granting of repentance falls apart and is smashed to pieces by the creature - according to your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19).

Two things to awake to:
1. Awake to righteousness (1.COR 15:34)
2. Awake to life (EPH 5:14)
Seventy-four "Be's":
1. Be exceeding glad (MATT 5:12)
2. Be reconciled to a brother (MATT 5:24)
3. Be perfect (MATT 5:48; 2.COR 13:11)
4. Be wise as serpents (MATT 10:16)
5. Be harmless as doves (MATT 10:16)
6. Be ready for Christ's coming (MATT 24:44;
LK 12:40)
7. Be content with your wages (LK 3:14)
8. Be merciful as God (LK 6:36)
9. Be like faithful servants (LK 12:36)
10. Be thankful (COL 3:15)
11. Be at peace among selves (1.THESS 5:13)
12. Be patient toward all people
(1.THESS 5:14; 2.TIM 2:24)
13. Be no partaker of sin (1.TIM 5:22)
14. Be sober and hope (1.PET 1:13)
15. Be sober and pray (1.PET 4:7)
16. Be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith,
charity, and patience (aged men, TIT 2:2)
17. Be sober, love husbands and children (young
women, TIT 2:4)
18. Be sober minded (young men, TIT 2:6)
19. Be in behaviour as becoming to saints (aged
women, TIT 2:3)
20. Be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good,
obedient (young women, TIT 2:5)
21. Be ready to give an answer of the hope that
is in you (1.PET 3:15)
22. Be of good cheer (JN 16:33)
23. Be baptized (ACTS 2:38)
24. Be converted (ACTS 3:19)
25. Be transformed (ROM 12:2)
26. Be kind of brotherly love one to another
(ROM 12:10; EPH 4:32)
27. Be fervent in spirit (ROM 12:11)
28. Be patient in tribulation (ROM 12:12)
29. Be given to hospitality (ROM 12:13)
30. Be afraid, if lawless (ROM 13:4)
Category "1,050 NEW TESTAMENT COMMANDS"
1050 NT commands Page 2
31. Be no idolater (1.COR 10:7)
32. Be followers of Paul as he followed Christ
(1.COR 11:1; PHIL 3:17)
33. Be followers of God (EPH 5:1)
34. Be followers of the faithful and patient
(HEB 6:12)
35. Be not children in understanding
(1.COR 14:20)
36. Be men in understanding (1.COR 14:20)
37. Be steadfast (1.COR 15:58)
38. Be unmoveable (1.COR 15:58)
39. Be always abounding in God's work
(1.COR 15:58)
40. Be strong in the Lord (1.COR 16:13;
EPH 6:10; 2.TIM 2:1)
41. Be of good comfort (2.COR 13:11)
42. Be of one mind (ROM 12:16;
2.COR 13:11; PHIL 2:2; 1.PET 3:8)
43. Be separate from the unclean
(2.COR 6:17)
44. Be renewed in spirit (EPH 4:23)
45. Be angry and sin not (EPH 4:26)
46. Be tender-hearted one to another
(EPH 4:32)
47. Be filled with the Spirit (EPH 5:18)
48. Be likeminded (PHIL 2:2)
49. Be one of accord (PHIL 2:2)
50. Be anxious for nothing (PHIL 4:6)
51. Be an example to believers in word,
conversation, charity, spirit, faith, and purity
(1.TIM 4:12)
52. Be a partaker of Christian sufferings
(2.TIM 1:8; cp. 1.PET 4:1)
53. Be gentle to all people (2.TIM 2:24)
54. Be apt to teach (2.TIM 2:24)
55. Be instant in season, out of season
(2.TIM 4:2)
56. Be careful to maintain good works
(TIT 3:8,14; cp. MATT 5:16)
57. Be content with what you have (HEB 13:5)
58. Be doers of the Word (JAS 1:22)
59. Be afflicted and mourn (JAS 4:9)
60. Be patient till Christ comes (JAS 5:7-8)
61. Be holy in conversation (behaviour)
(1.PET 1:15-16)
62. Be pitiful (1.PET 3:8)
63. Be courteous (1.PET 3:8)
64. Be examples of the flock of God, not lord over
it (1.PET 5:3)
65. Be subject one to another (1.PET 5:5)
66. Be clothed with humility (1.PET 5:5)
67. Be sober (1.PET 5:8)
68. Be vigilant (1.PET 5:8)
69. Be mindful of prophecies and commandments (2.PET 3:2)
70. Be diligent to be found in peace (2.PET 3:14)
71. Be diligent to be without spot, and blameless
(2.PET 3:14)
72. Be faithful to death (REV 2:10)
73. Be watchful, strengthen self (REV 3:2)
74. Be zealous and repent (REV 3:19)

So, the Imperatives are also considered to be works. right?

 

[Johann]

This is promoting salvation by works, by conditioning salvation on what man does.

What about our sanctification, also passive?

 

[Johann]

Two things to awake to:
1. Awake to righteousness (1.COR 15:34)
2. Awake to life (EPH 5:14)
Seventy-four "Be's":
1. Be exceeding glad (MATT 5:12)
2. Be reconciled to a brother (MATT 5:24)
3. Be perfect (MATT 5:48; 2.COR 13:11)
4. Be wise as serpents (MATT 10:16)
5. Be harmless as doves (MATT 10:16)
6. Be ready for Christ's coming (MATT 24:44;
LK 12:40)
7. Be content with your wages (LK 3:14)
8. Be merciful as God (LK 6:36)
9. Be like faithful servants (LK 12:36)
10. Be thankful (COL 3:15)
11. Be at peace among selves (1.THESS 5:13)
12. Be patient toward all people
(1.THESS 5:14; 2.TIM 2:24)
13. Be no partaker of sin (1.TIM 5:22)
14. Be sober and hope (1.PET 1:13)
15. Be sober and pray (1.PET 4:7)
16. Be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith,
charity, and patience (aged men, TIT 2:2)
17. Be sober, love husbands and children (young
women, TIT 2:4)
18. Be sober minded (young men, TIT 2:6)
19. Be in behaviour as becoming to saints (aged
women, TIT 2:3)
20. Be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good,
obedient (young women, TIT 2:5)
21. Be ready to give an answer of the hope that
is in you (1.PET 3:15)
22. Be of good cheer (JN 16:33)
23. Be baptized (ACTS 2:38)
24. Be converted (ACTS 3:19)
25. Be transformed (ROM 12:2)
26. Be kind of brotherly love one to another
(ROM 12:10; EPH 4:32)
27. Be fervent in spirit (ROM 12:11)
28. Be patient in tribulation (ROM 12:12)
29. Be given to hospitality (ROM 12:13)
30. Be afraid, if lawless (ROM 13:4)
Category "1,050 NEW TESTAMENT COMMANDS"
1050 NT commands Page 2
31. Be no idolater (1.COR 10:7)
32. Be followers of Paul as he followed Christ
(1.COR 11:1; PHIL 3:17)
33. Be followers of God (EPH 5:1)
34. Be followers of the faithful and patient
(HEB 6:12)
35. Be not children in understanding
(1.COR 14:20)
36. Be men in understanding (1.COR 14:20)
37. Be steadfast (1.COR 15:58)
38. Be unmoveable (1.COR 15:58)
39. Be always abounding in God's work
(1.COR 15:58)
40. Be strong in the Lord (1.COR 16:13;
EPH 6:10; 2.TIM 2:1)
41. Be of good comfort (2.COR 13:11)
42. Be of one mind (ROM 12:16;
2.COR 13:11; PHIL 2:2; 1.PET 3:8)
43. Be separate from the unclean
(2.COR 6:17)
44. Be renewed in spirit (EPH 4:23)
45. Be angry and sin not (EPH 4:26)
46. Be tender-hearted one to another
(EPH 4:32)
47. Be filled with the Spirit (EPH 5:18)
48. Be likeminded (PHIL 2:2)
49. Be one of accord (PHIL 2:2)
50. Be anxious for nothing (PHIL 4:6)
51. Be an example to believers in word,
conversation, charity, spirit, faith, and purity
(1.TIM 4:12)
52. Be a partaker of Christian sufferings
(2.TIM 1:8; cp. 1.PET 4:1)
53. Be gentle to all people (2.TIM 2:24)
54. Be apt to teach (2.TIM 2:24)
55. Be instant in season, out of season
(2.TIM 4:2)
56. Be careful to maintain good works
(TIT 3:8,14; cp. MATT 5:16)
57. Be content with what you have (HEB 13:5)
58. Be doers of the Word (JAS 1:22)
59. Be afflicted and mourn (JAS 4:9)
60. Be patient till Christ comes (JAS 5:7-8)
61. Be holy in conversation (behaviour)
(1.PET 1:15-16)
62. Be pitiful (1.PET 3:8)
63. Be courteous (1.PET 3:8)
64. Be examples of the flock of God, not lord over
it (1.PET 5:3)
65. Be subject one to another (1.PET 5:5)
66. Be clothed with humility (1.PET 5:5)
67. Be sober (1.PET 5:8)
68. Be vigilant (1.PET 5:8)
69. Be mindful of prophecies and commandments (2.PET 3:2)
70. Be diligent to be found in peace (2.PET 3:14)
71. Be diligent to be without spot, and blameless
(2.PET 3:14)
72. Be faithful to death (REV 2:10)
73. Be watchful, strengthen self (REV 3:2)
74. Be zealous and repent (REV 3:19)

So, the Imperatives are also considered to be works. right?

22:12 now I know that you fear God.

Abraham’s action
confirms his faithful obedience to God. While Abraham’s faith was earlier the
means by which God counted him as righteous (15:6)....., that faith is now “active
along with his works,” and the faith is “completed by his works” (James 2:21–
23), so that his faith resulted in obedience, which is its expected outcome. On
God’s knowledge, see note on Gen. 18:21.


. God will render to a man according to his work; i.e., a
person’s “work” shows whether his faith is real or counterfeit (the attackers
are probably Israelites), and God will sort out who is who. This is therefore
a ground of confidence for the believer and a warning to the unfaithful.

You are dangerously believing in Quaker Quietism

Hannah Whitall Smith: Higher Life Writer, Speaker on Sanctification, Developer of the Keswick Theology, Quaker Quietist and Universalist Heretic

 

[Johann]

22:12 now I know that you fear God.

Abraham’s action
confirms his faithful obedience to God. While Abraham’s faith was earlier the
means by which God counted him as righteous (15:6)....., that faith is now “active
along with his works,” and the faith is “completed by his works” (James 2:21–
23), so that his faith resulted in obedience, which is its expected outcome. On
God’s knowledge, see note on Gen. 18:21.


. God will render to a man according to his work; i.e., a
person’s “work” shows whether his faith is real or counterfeit (the attackers
are probably Israelites), and God will sort out who is who. This is therefore
a ground of confidence for the believer and a warning to the unfaithful.

You are dangerously believing in Quaker Quietism

Hannah Whitall Smith: Higher Life Writer, Speaker on Sanctification, Developer of the Keswick Theology, Quaker Quietist and Universalist Heretic

Quaker Quietist Hannah Whitall Smith; Keswick / Higher Life

Hannah Whitall Smith, founder of the Keswick or Higher Life theology with her husband Robert P. Smith, was a Quaker, a Quietist, and a universalist heretic.

faithsaves.net

 

[mailmandan]

What about our sanctification, also passive?

Saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Faith is obviously not works and placing faith in Christ for salvation is not passive. Receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. (1 Peter 1:9) That is not passive. 1 Thessalonians 4:3 - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor. That is certainly not passive either.

 

[Johann]

Quaker Quietist Hannah Whitall Smith; Keswick / Higher Life

Hannah Whitall Smith, founder of the Keswick or Higher Life theology with her husband Robert P. Smith, was a Quaker, a Quietist, and a universalist heretic.

faithsaves.net

 

[Johann]

Saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Faith is obviously not works and placing faith in Christ for salvation is not passive. Receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. (1 Peter 1:9) That is not passive. 1 Thessalonians 4:3 - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor. That is certainly not passive either.

I'm with you.
J.