is doing sexual things with a boyfriend/girlfriend sin...

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Angelina

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or fornication?
What does the bible say about fornication?

Matthew 15:18-20a
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man...

Ephesians 5:2-3 NKJV
2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;

Galatians 5:19 NKJV
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,

 
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Grailhunter

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I'm not being rude I'm being truthful and when it comes to the truth in the scriptures you can't water down that truth. If you say and believe the scriptures say that if two people who are both single and have sex but are not Christians, are not sinning against God when they have sex, you're wrong and you're not going by the scriptures

On how many levels are you wrong on this. Preaching garbage and you cannot even pull up scriptures from a real Bible.
The desire to condemn is not Christian.
I have already proven that a wedding ceremony is not a biblical requirement.
Nor was it a custom. You can look it up for yourself, the first documented Christian wedding occurred in the 9th century.
You have a bunch of false beliefs running around in your head and suggest others are wrong because they do not share in your fantasy world.

God made the physical aspects of sex and all the desires and the devil was not even consulted on it.
If two people that are in love....make love, it is a beautiful thing. No guilt and no sin.
It is Christians like you that try to make....what God made and instituted dirty.
Christian couples that are in love should have a beautiful wedding because over time we learned that that is the right thing to do. But according to the Bible they formed a marriage when they chose to join. When a couple has a wedding it is a public declaration of their love and the vows are a commitment to one another.....but God already knew.

When the Bible talks about sexual sins....it is referring to various forms of casual sex with no love.
 

Grailhunter

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What does the bible say about fornication?

Matthew 15:18-20a
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man...

Ephesians 5:2-3 NKJV
2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;

Galatians 5:19 NKJV
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,

With all due respect, but if you have a Bible with the word fornication in it....it is a corrupted translation, with the intent to demonize the relationships between men and women.

The evolution of the word Fornicate or Fornication
Fornicate comes from the Latin, the term fornix means arch or vaulted ceiling. In Ancient Rome, it was known that prostitutes would wait for their customers out of the hot sun or rain in areas that had cover…vaulted ceilings. The Latin word fornix became a euphemism for brothels and the Latin verb fornicare referred to a man visiting a brothel. Meaning a man being serviced by prostitutes.

Trying to make a long story short here, In 382 a variant of the word Fornication made it way into the Latin Vulgate Bible then the earlier versions translated sexual immorality, and all the variances and scenarios thereof into the word fornication. Then they introduced a new definition, two unmarried people having sex. There is no definition in the scriptures that indicate two unmarried people having sex is a sin....because that is how they formed a marriage. No biblical requirement for a wedding ceremony.

Of course there are instances where two unmarried people having sex can be a sin. Casual sex...and one night stands, prostitutes, general whoremongering, carousing etc. Modern more accurate translations generally use the phrase sexual immorality instead of fornication.

The need for wedding ceremonies was something that God taught us after the Bible. Something that is a very good thing. It is the right thing to do. Like I said, it is a long story. But I am very big on weddings. The bigger the better. But For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. That is it! That is how they formed marriages in the Old and New Testament....The first documented Christian wedding was 8 centuries after the biblical era and it is a long story but it was because of the Gentiles....and the protestants were the first to make it a requirement...a good thing, but 1500 years after the biblical era.

The sin that the word fornication causes is the sin of falsely accusing people, condemning, judging, turning people away from Christianity. Shacking up! Living in sin! Couples that are together and are monogamous have not sinned.

Of course we want them to have a wedding ceremony. That is why they should be welcomed in the church, fellowship with Christians and they may see it is the right thing to do.

As time went on Christianity developed a very negative view towards women and sexuality and the word fornication is just one of the reasons for that and it actually lead to some horrific atrocities at the hands of the church.
 
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Angelina

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So what are you saying @Graihunter? Fornication is not in every bible so it has to be dismissed. What do you think sexual immorality may be?

"Porneia is a Greek word that essentially means “illicit sexual activity.” It is a general, inclusive word for any kind of sexual immorality and occurs about 25 times in the New Testament. The NASB consistently translates it “fornication.” The NIV translates it “sexual immorality” or on a few occasions simply “immorality.” It is often included in lists with other sinful activities without any further definition or explanation (Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:21; Acts 15:20, 29; 21:25; Romans 1:29; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Colossians 3:5; Revelation 9:21). The word does not specify which kinds of sexual activity are immoral; however, since the rest of Scripture defines any sexual activity outside of marriage as off-limits, it would all be considered porneia." quote from: What is the meaning of porneia in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

What is sexual immorality? | GotQuestions.org
 

Grailhunter

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So what are you saying @Graihunter? Fornication is not in every bible so it has to be dismissed. What do you think sexual immorality may be?
What is sexual immorality? | GotQuestions.org

Well Angelina I explained that.
Fornication is a man made word....not a bibleical word. no part of its definition is in the Bible and it was introduce centuries after the biblical era. Two unmarried people having sex is how they formed marriages in the Bible.

Sure sexual immorality exist and it is sin, but it involves casual sex in one form or another.

The topic is long if you want more information...I already have it written up from essays from collage.
 
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Angelina

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So your saying that this young lady who is not married can have sex outside the biblical context of marriage with any partner she likes and God would think it is okay because the Idea is that she is considered married to as many partners as she likes. Is this what you are saying @Grailhunter? :)
 

Grailhunter

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The word does not specify which kinds of sexual activity are immoral; however, since the rest of Scripture defines any sexual activity outside of marriage as off-limits

What you are saying here is that every marriage in the Bible was a sin. Again no biblical requirement for a wedding ceremony, no Jewish or Christian custom for a wedding ceremony. Why do you think it was not a requirement in the Catholic church but the Protestants made it a requirement? Which is a good thing.
 
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Grailhunter

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So your saying that this young lady who is not married can have sex outside the biblical context of marriage with any partner she likes and God would think it is okay because the Idea is that she is considered married to as many partners as she likes. Is this what you are saying @Grailhunter? :)

I am not saying anything like that.
What you are describing is sexual immorality.
Trying to stay with the facts.
In the Bible....in the biblical era having sex was how they formed marriages. That is a fact.
The sexual union consummates the marriage...even today...if you have a wedding and do not have sex....you can have the marriage annulled.
 

Angelina

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I am not saying anything like that.
What you are describing is sexual immorality.
Trying to stay with the facts.
In the Bible....in the biblical era having sex was how they formed marriages. That is a fact.
The sexual union consummates the marriage...even today...if you have a wedding and do not have sex....you can have the marriage annulled.

@Grailhunter. Sexual immorality comes from from the Greek por·neiʹa, a term used in the scriptures to refer to certain sexual activities forbidden by God. It includes adultery, prostitution, sexual relations between unmarried individuals, homosexuality, and bestiality. Fornication may be a word only found in a number of bibles but this does not change the context of what the bible is meaning....:)

I would have to agree to disagree with you on this topic. Blessings and Peace xox
 

Grailhunter

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sexual relations between unmarried individuals

This is not true
In the Bible the Greek word Porneia and its variances appear several times in the actual scriptures. In all cases the Christian writers were using it as some form of sexual immorality. And you will see this in modern translations where they use the phrase sexual immorality instead of the word fornication.

Examples:
πορνείας·… porneias … Sexual immorality
πορνείᾳ … porneiai … Sexual immorality in the plural
πορνεῦσαι … To commit sexual immorality involving sexual acts
πορνείαν … Idolatry involving sexual acts
πόρνος … A person that practices sexual immorality
πόρνοι … Refering to as a group of the sexually immoral
πορνεῖαι … inflectional, more or less dirty thoughts

But it is never associate with two unmarried people having sex because that is how they formed marriages.
 

Angelina

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This is not true
In the Bible the Greek word Porneia and its variances appear several times in the actual scriptures. In all cases the Christian writers were using it as some form of sexual immorality. And you will see this in modern translations where they use the phrase sexual immorality instead of the word fornication.

Examples:
πορνείας·… porneias … Sexual immorality
πορνείᾳ … porneiai … Sexual immorality in the plural
πορνεῦσαι … To commit sexual immorality involving sexual acts
πορνείαν … Idolatry involving sexual acts
πόρνος … A person that practices sexual immorality
πόρνοι … Refering to as a group of the sexually immoral
πορνεῖαι … inflectional, more or less dirty thoughts

But it is never associate with two unmarried people having sex because that is how they formed marriages.

Define what you have written. Define sexual immoraility because it sure isn't defined in what you have just quoted...o_O
 

Angelina

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1 Corinthians 7

Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
 

Lambano

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Biblical marriage in OT Israel was a business transaction in which a man's daughter was a commodity to be sold. Love was only a peripheral issue. Premarital sex devalued the worth of the merchandise (virginity being mint condition), hence the "you broke it, you bought it" laws. After the groom or his family paid the bride price, the woman became his property, and adultery with another man's wife is a property crime similar to theft. If the man dies, his brother inherits the "property". If he has no brothers, another kinsman inherits the woman.

I would imagine the "wedding ceremony" consisted of signing a contract and hand handing over a specified number of cows and sheep. Make sure you get a receipt.

Speaking of getting a receipt: I was honored to attend the wedding of a wonderful Jewish couple, friends of mine since college. As we and all their friends sat around their hotel room that evening reminiscing about old times, the groom's father sent up a Maitre De with a bottle of red wine and one of the hotel's towels. My friend then poured some of the red wine on the towel and sent the Maitre De back to his father's room with the towel. My friend then explained the meaning of this ritual in Judaism. (They'd been living together since we were in college, for crying out loud.) I hope nobody here needs this explained.

Read the OT; you'll see it.
 
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Angelina

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Why does the unmarried person in the above scripture [1 Corinthians 7:8] need to burn with passion when based on your understanding @Grailhunter, they are already married to the partner they are having sex with....

In your perspective, does sex constitue marriage? o_O
 

Grailhunter

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Define what you have written. Define sexual immoraility because it sure isn't defined in what you have just quoted...o_O

Of course this is not my first post on this topic.
Sexual immorality....the list could be pretty long.
And like I said in post 363...copied here...Of course there are instances where two unmarried people having sex can be a sin. Casual sex...and one night stands, prostitutes, general whoremongering, carousing etc....but just like in ancient times we more or less have temple prostitutes....religions that use what they call "flirty fishing" And of course orgies and junk like that.

The key ingredient is love and I explained that in post 315.

Like I said God explained how it happen..... For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. That is it. If two people are in love and make love....no sin no guilt. If they are Christians they better know that they are biblically married. And the topic of why they should get married is a good one
 
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Grailhunter

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1 Corinthians 7

Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Well I agree with all this. Still no requirement of a wedding ceremony.
 

Grailhunter

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Why does the unmarried person in the above scripture need to burn with passion when based on your understanding @Grailhunter, they are already married to the partner they are already having sex with....

Marriage was the decision to couple up in a monogamous relationship.
 

Grailhunter

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We are not talking about a wedding ceremony brother @Grailhunter. we were talking about the word fornication which then went to the word "Sexual immoral"

I ask again. In your perspective, does sex constitute marriage? o_O

I think I have said several time...that biblically if a couple has sex they are married. If they do not understand that, that can lead to sin.
The word fornication is biblically irrelevant. But sexual immorality comes in many forms....but not just two unmarried people having sex and forming a marriage....That is the way they did it in the Old and New Testament.
 
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