Is Genesis 15:16 applicable to this present time from 1948?

[Jay Ross]

Jay, I take no position whatsoever on whether Gen. 15:16 refers to 1948. I simply say that not every instance of "generation" in the Torah should be construed to be one of the seven "ages." Sometimes the word just means the average interval of time between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring. And Ex. 34:7, Num. 14:18, Deut. 5:9, are instances of this. The "generation" in these verses is implied from other Hebrew words involving sonship. You won't find in these verses the actual Hebrew word for generation: תּוֹלְדָה

Perhaps if you considered the Hebrew words in Genesis 6:9 where two different Hebrew words have been translated as "generation(s)" to see the differences between them. The first word is best understood to be "This is the Genealogy of Noah," the second word is best understood to have the meaning of a period of time/age.

This is one paraphrase that I have considered to best translate this one verse: -

{This is the genealogy}/{These are the descendant generations}(H:8435) of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his {generation}/{age}(H:1755) before the flood; Noah walked with God.

Plese note that I have added the words, "before the flood" to this verse to emphasise the time period where God came to check up on His creation of man.

I trust that this example helps.

Shalom

 

[RedFan]

Perhaps if you considered the Hebrew words in Genesis 6:9 where two different Hebrew words have been translated as "generation(s)" to see the differences between them. The first word is best understood to be "This is the Genealogy of Noah," the second word is best understood to have the meaning of a period of time/age.

This is one paraphrase that I have considered to best translate this one verse: -

{This is the genealogy}/{These are the descendant generations}(H:8435) of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his {generation}/{age}(H:1755) before the flood; Noah walked with God.

Plese note that I have added the words, "before the flood" to this verse to emphasise the time period where God came to check up on His creation of man.

I trust that this example helps.

Shalom

No question, there is more than one Hebrew word for "generation" and more than one sense of each such word in the Hebrew. But none of those words appears in Ex. 34:7, Num. 14:18, or Deut. 5:9. You see "generation" in your English translation of these verses and automatically think it must be there. It's not. The "generation" inference is there, but only in the sense of a roughly 25-30 year period between birth of an erstwhile parent and their actual parenthood.

 

[Jay Ross]

Just reflecting your sentiments back.

So, you do have an axe to grind.

Seems you do not want to examine the validity of your imaginations, as @JohnDB says.

The same accusation is true of both you and JohnDB, you too do not want to examine the validity of your imaginations.

It seems to me that you are good at wanting others to hold to your prescribed standards etc., but are unwilling to examine if your standards are as valid as you wish them to be.

Goodbye

 

[Wrangler]

So, you do have an axe to grind.

No. Not at all.

It seems to me that you are good at wanting others to hold to your prescribed standards etc., but are unwilling to examine if your standards are as valid as you wish them to be.

Wrong. Ever hear of ‘reasonable doubt?’ It is not a burden that does not apply equally to both sides. It applies only to the one making the positive claim.

@JohnDB and I reject you claim on the grounds you have not met the burden of proof.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

No question, there is more than one Hebrew word for "generation" and more than one sense of each such word in the Hebrew. But none of those words appears in Ex. 34:7, Num. 14:18, or Deut. 5:9. You see "generation" in your English translation of these verses and automatically think it must be there. It's not. The "generation" inference is there, but only in the sense of a roughly 25-30 year period between birth of an erstwhile parent and their actual parenthood.

A year or so I lost use of PC Study Bible, it was just wiped off of my computer. I purchased another copy of the program but stuffed up while installing it and had trouble interacting with the office for PC Study Bible to try and reload the program but could not get through to speak to anyone there to reloading the program. But that is a side issue.

When I had this program, I bored down through the links for H:8029 and H:7256 and from memory, in both cases H:1755 popped up as I traced the Hebrew Root Word links as far as I could go. Since I do not have access to that program at this present time, I am not able to present what I found back then which would justify my position and understanding.

What you are presenting is the Jewish understanding that they have held from a number of ages ago, nominally, from around 3,500 years ago.

Over the past 2,000 or so years, i.e., for two ages, God has caused all of Israel to be scattered over the earth from His sight because of their continual idolatrous worship. When this time period is completed, and the judgement of the heavenly hosts and the Kings of the earth has occurred, when the kings of the earth are gathered at Armageddon, then all of Israel will be saved as Paul foretold us in Rom 11:25b-26.
In Matt 24:32 Jesus foretold that, “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near." The fig tree put forth leaves in 1948 AD and the end of the sixth age of mankind will occur around 96 years later immediately followed by the seventh age.

Genesis 15:16 is the best prophetic word that I know of that provided any indication as to when Israel will start to turn once more towards God.

Jesus is already knocking at the doorway to the hearts of Israel asking to enter. Their redemption is at hand.

It is my belief that the seventh age will begin in around 20 years' time. I may be alive still at that time to see this unfold, but if I am not, I am still content that God has revealed,when this will occur, to me.

Shalom

 

[RedFan]

A year or so I lost use of PC Study Bible, it was just wiped off of my computer. I purchased another copy of the program but stuffed up while installing it and had trouble interacting with the office for PC Study Bible to try and reload the program but could not get through to speak to anyone there to reloading the program. But that is a side issue.

When I had this program, I bored down through the links for H:8029 and H:7256 and from memory, in both cases H:1755 popped up as I traced the Hebrew Root Word links as far as I could go. Since I do not have access to that program at this present time, I am not able to present what I found back then which would justify my position and understanding.

What you are presenting is the Jewish understanding that they have held from a number of ages ago, nominally, from around 3,500 years ago.

Over the past 2,000 or so years, i.e., for two ages, God has caused all of Israel to be scattered over the earth from His sight because of their continual idolatrous worship. When this time period is completed, and the judgement of the heavenly hosts and the Kings of the earth has occurred, when the kings of the earth are gathered at Armageddon, then all of Israel will be saved as Paul foretold us in Rom 11:25b-26.
In Matt 24:32 Jesus foretold that, “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near." The fig tree put forth leaves in 1948 AD and the end of the sixth age of mankind will occur around 96 years later immediately followed by the seventh age.

Genesis 15:16 is the best prophetic word that I know of that provided any indication as to when Israel will start to turn once more towards God.

Jesus is already knocking at the doorway to the hearts of Israel asking to enter. Their redemption is at hand.

It is my belief that the seventh age will begin in around 20 years' time. I may be alive still at that time to see this unfold, but if I am not, I am still content that God has revealed,when this will occur, to me.

Shalom

You affirm what I have not denied. I don't know how to be any clearer: the ONLY conclusion of yours I am challenging today is your conclusion that the Torah passages saying God will visit a father's iniquity on three and four generations of progeny refers to "ages" rather than parent-child generations. That's just an untenable view. These Torah passages don't even contain a Hebrew word translatable as "generation," of any definition of the word.

There are others on this site who will debate your interpretation of Gen. 15:16. Not me.