Is Genesis 15:16 applicable to this present time from 1948?

[Jay Ross]

When God told Abraham this prophecy, when was He indicating that it would come true?

Genesis 15:16 - But in the fourth generation/age they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete."

It is my understanding that a generation/age has a duration of just over 1,000 years. It probably it has a duration of 1,024 year.

So, in reading the phrase "in the fourth generation/age" i.e., during the period of time from 3,072 to 4,096 year of the existence of Abraham's descendant, that Abraham's descendants will return to the place where Abraham was living at that time, i.e., the Land of Canaan. The verse does not indicate that God will be involved in their return to the Land of Canaan. It is my view that this return to the Land of Canaan occurred in 1948 AD although for some time before then, Abraham's descendants had been returning to the Land of Canaan in small numbers.

It is my understanding that 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac, that some of Abraham's descendants return to the Land of Canaan in 1948.

The second part of this verse tells us that at the time of the return of some of Abraham's descendants to the land of Canaan, that their, i.e. the Amorites, iniquities were not yet complete. Their iniquity is their rejection of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Their father is Satan.

At this present time, they are the servants of the Little Horn and are a part of the army that has been given to him to trample God's sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, Israel. The Little Horn's trampling of God's sanctuary and earthly hosts is drawing to its completion, and it is my understanding that this completion will occur in around 20 years' time.

The completion of the Little Horns trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly Hosts will be marked by the assembling of the kings of the earth at Armageddon to be judged for their involvement in the Little Horn's trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts. This judgement is also found in Isaiah 24:21-22.

The aggressor against the Nation of Israel in the Land of Canaan is predominately at the moment coming from Gaza, in league with other Islamic nations who are supporting them.

How well do we know the End Time prophetic words and can we recognise the described events when they occur?

Discuss

 

[Jack]

1948 was indeed special. Israel is back to stay as God foretold. What a wonderful fulfillment of Bible prophecy!

Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. 15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

 

[Wrangler]

Is Genesis 15:16 applicable to this present time from 1948?

No. It is not prophetic text.

It is my understanding that a generation/age has a duration of just over 1,000 years.

Where do you get that understanding from?

A generation is not a fixed time but an event; the time it takes before the next generation comes along. My father was 27 before he generated me and I was 25 before I generated my twins. My mother was 22 before she generated me and so was her mother. On average, a generation is about 25 years. Therefore, 4 generations would be about 100 years. (Incidentally, my grandfather was born exactly a century before my daughter, confirming this cycle).

An age is, like a generation, not a fixed time but an event. We typically label ages by what material is used. There was the Stone Age, Bronze Age, Industrial Age and Industrial Age. President Ronald Reagan proclaimed during a State of the Union Address - a decade before the internet - that we have entered the Information Age.

Having said all that, I do believe Israel coming into existence in one day is fulfillment of prophecy. However, this is not Genesis but Isaiah 66:7-9
Tree of Life Version
A Nation Born in a Day

7 Before she was in labor,
she gave birth.
Before her pain came,
she delivered a male child.
8 Who has heard such a thing?
Who has seen such things?
Can a land be born in one day?
Can a nation be brought forth at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor,
she gave birth to her children.
9 “Will I bring the moment of birth,
and not give delivery?” says Adonai.
“Will I who cause delivery
shut up the womb?” says your God.

 

[Jay Ross]

1948 was indeed special. Israel is back to stay as God foretold. What a wonderful fulfillment of Bible prophecy!

Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. 15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

I wish that the way H:0127 is translated conveyed the right context but the root meaning of H:0127 is

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
country, earth, ground, husbandman ry, land
From 'adam; soil (from its general redness) -- country, earth, ground, husband(-man) (-ry), land.

Englishman's Concordance
אַדְמָתָֽם ’aḏ·mā·ṯām — 17 Occurrences

1 Genesis 47:22
2 Leviticus 20:24
3 Deuteronomy 29:28
4 Psalm 105:35
5 Isaiah 14:1
6 Jeremiah 12:14
7 Jeremiah 16:15
8 Jeremiah 23:8
9 Ezekiel 28:25
10 Ezekiel 34:13
11 Ezekiel 34:27
12 Ezekiel 36:17
13 Ezekiel 37:21
14 Ezekiel 39:26
15 Ezekiel 39:28
16 Amos 9:15
17 Amos 9:15

It is my view that the translation of "land" for אַדְמָתָֽם does not convey the context of this Hebrew word.

The Promised Land was given to Israel as a sign that they would inherit the whole earth in the distant future, and this promised land as initially foretold in Genesis 13:14-17 was for a limited period of time which began with the return of Israel from Egypt and ended after the Death of King Solomon.

God also promised King David that his descendants would have possession of the Land of Canaan for a period of time before they would finally be forcibly removed from the Land of Canaan in 70 A.D. because of their idolatrous worship.

God's intent was to give the Israelites a fertile field from which they could obtain their nourishment from with respect to their relationship with Him. Because of their continual idolatrous worship during the first and second age of their existence God cause Israel to be scattered to the four corners of the earth so as when He gathered them once more to Himself, that they would become a nation of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the nations. God's purpose for Israel was to be a Blessing to all of the nations of the earth. This time period of being a blessing to all of the earth will begin is around 20 years' time during the first 1,000 years of the seventh age.

As foretold in the Parable of the Sower, God intended for Israel to be planted as seed in His prepared Fertile Field, while still being scattered throughout the whole earth to act as yeast to cause the hearts of people to turn to God while the Beasts, the Little Horns, Satan and the Kings of the earth who had provided armies for the Little Horn to Trample God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts are imprisoned for 1,000 years in the Bottomless Pit.

Yes, there are prophecies that tell us that Judah would return to the Land of Canaan in their own strength in a day, but the majority of the houses of Israel will remain scattered throughout the whole earth, planted in His Fertile Fields to be part of God's Priesthood for all of the Gentile nations in the earth.

The "Promised Land" has become like an idol that the Israelites have worshipped for four millennium in their desperate bids to have a reason to maintain their connection with God.

1948 is one such example where the Israelites have tried to force a relationship with God by returning to the Land of Canaan, but as of yet they have not repented on their continual idolatrous worship as of yet. Their repentance of their continual idolatrous worship since the time that Isaac was born right up and until the drawing to an end to the fourth age of their existence.

God is still waiting for Israel to repent and as of yet he has not begun to Gather the nation of Israel to Himself.

I hope this explanation explains my position on the 1948 return to the Land of Canaan and what is happening at present.

Shalom

 

[RedFan]

It is my understanding that 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac, that some of Abraham's descendants return to the Land of Canaan in 1948.

Tell us why you believe Isaac was born in 2052 B.C.

 

[Jay Ross]

No. It is not prophetic text.

Really? I would never have guessed that you would have thought that without any real reasoning.

Where do you get that understanding from?

From developing an understanding of time from reading the scriptures.

A generation is not a fixed time but an event; the time it takes before the next generation comes along. My father was 27 before he generated me and I was 25 before I generated my twins. My mother was 22 before she generated me and so was her mother. On average, a generation is about 25 years. Therefore, 4 generations would be about 100 years. (Incidentally, my grandfather was born exactly a century before my daughter, confirming this cycle).

An age is, like a generation, not a fixed time but an event. We typically label ages by what material is used. There was the Stone Age, Bronze Age, Industrial Age and Industrial Age. President Ronald Reagan proclaimed during a State of the Union Address - a decade before the internet - that we have entered the Information Age.

Your reasoning above is just typical speculation that has been used since the time of Moses' death to try and make some sense of the time span being foretold which was beyond their ability to comprehend.

Having said all that, I do believe Israel coming into existence in one day is fulfillment of prophecy. However, this is not Genesis but Isaiah 66:7-9

I have disagreement with this statement.

However, until 1948, it was not easy to comprehend what the prophet word meant.

Isaiah 61:4-9 was also difficult to understand before 1948 where it states the following:-

4 And they shall rebuild the old ruins,
They shall raise up the former desolations,
And they shall repair the ruined cities,
The desolations of two ages.
5 Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,
And the sons of the foreigner
Shall be your ploughmen and your vinedressers.
6 But you shall be named the priests of the Lord,
They shall call you the servants of our God.
You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,
And in their glory, you shall boast.
7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honour,
And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.
Therefore, in their land/countryside they shall possess double;
Everlasting joy shall be theirs.
8 "For I, the Lord, love justice;
I hate robbery for burnt offering;
I will direct their work in truth,
And will make with them an everlasting covenant.
9 Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles,
And their offspring among the people.
All who see them shall acknowledge them,
That they are the posterity whom the Lord has blessed."

However, the sixth age has not reached its conclusion yet and as such, God is not gathering the Israelites to Himself yet.

But without a Biblical understanding of what the duration of a "generation/age" means, the context of God's written prophetic words is still hidden from us.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

Tell us why you believe Isaac was born in 2052 B.C.

I have spent much effort in creating my own chronological timeline of the scriptures to arrive at this conclusion. I have confirmed that it is possible to go from the time of Adam's creation to the end of the seventh age without leaving the Old Testament.

The explanation of the work that I have undertaken is too long to be provided in the allowed format for this forum. However, it is possible for you to come to the same conclusion with the same diligence that I employed.

Shalom

 

[RedFan]

Based on your view of the length of a "generation," have you concluded that Jesus lied in Matt. 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32?

 

[Jay Ross]

Based on your view of the length of a "generation," have you concluded that Jesus lied in Matt. 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32?

The problem we have with these gospel verses is that we are applying a present day understanding of the Greek texts and it is misleading.

The timespan of all of the events that Jesus was referring to, cannot happen during a person's lifespan or within the time span of descendants generations but spans the whole seventh age.

In answer to your question did Jesus lie in Matt. 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32, my answer is NO.

It is our attempting to understand what Jesus meant in these verses that is lying to us.

 

[RedFan]

The problem we have with these gospel verses is that we are applying a present day understanding of the Greek texts and it is misleading.

The timespan of all of the events that Jesus was referring to, cannot happen during a person's lifespan or within the time span of descendants generations but spans the whole seventh age.

In answer to your question did Jesus lie in Matt. 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32, my answer is NO.

It is our attempting to understand what Jesus meant in these verses that is lying to us.

So when do you think the "generation" Jesus mentioned in these verses will elapse?

 

[Wrangler]

Really? I would never have guessed that you would have thought that without any real reasoning.

I did t provide reasoning. Do you think every verse of the Bible is prophetic? What reasoning did you provide that this verse is prophetic?

 

[Wrangler]

From developing an understanding of time from reading the scriptures.

So, you are relying on your own understanding. Gotcha!

 

[Wrangler]

Your reasoning above is just typical speculation

Wrong. I presented overwhelming facts. Before posting such a thread, try reading a dictionary for what words mean, like generation, rather than double down on your own speculations.

 

[Jay Ross]

So when do you think the "generation" Jesus mentioned in these verses will elapse?

At the end of the seventh age.

 

[RedFan]

At the end of the seventh age.

Which is how far in the future?

 

[Jay Ross]

Wrong. I presented overwhelming facts. Before posting such a thread, try reading a dictionary for what words mean, like generation, rather than double down on your own speculations.

Good for you reading a dictionary for what words mean. I did the same thing and the meaning of H:1755 also has the meaning of an age.

In Gen 2 it speaks of these are generations of creation. How long were those generations? Was it a 24-hour day within man's timeframe or a day of the Lord's within God's timeframe where we can quote peter where he said that a day of the Lords is like 1,000 years within man's timeframe. from peter we can say that a Day of the Lord has the same duration as a generation and an age.

I did't provide reasoning. Do you think every verse of the Bible is prophetic? What reasoning did you provide that this verse is prophetic?

My understanding that the events of 1948 confirmed that Gen 15:16 is a prophetic verse that was pointing to the outcomes that occurred when some of Abraham's descendants returned to the land of Canaan in 1948.

So, you are relying on your own understanding. Gotcha!

The only person who has" gotcha" is yourself. Your rebuttals have no validity nor do they disprove what I have already posted.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

Which is how far in the future?

If this present age will end in around 20 years' time, and Isaiah 24:21-22 occurs at that time, then if the duration of the imprisonment is for 1,000 years in the Bottomless pit which is followed by the little while period as described in the last part of Rev 20:3: ". . - After that, he must be released for a brief period of time." then I am sure that you can do the maths to come up with a probable answer to your question of "how far into the future?"

Shalom

 

[RedFan]

If this present age will end in around 20 years' time, and Isaiah 24:21-22 occurs at that time, then if the duration of the imprisonment is for 1,000 years in the Bottomless pit which is followed by the little while period as described in the last part of Rev 20:3: ". . - After that, he must be released for a brief period of time." then I am sure that you can do the maths to come up with a probable answer to your question of "how far into the future?"

Shalom

Math is not my strong suit. Can you do it for me?

 

[Jay Ross]

Math is not my strong suit. Can you do it for me?

If I tell you the answer, then I will be bombarded by those who will say that I have given a date for the end of the seventh age. All chronological timelines are built on numerous assumptions that only give an indication of when the end of the seventh age may be.

So, sometime around 1,044 years from now I have reason to believe that the end of the seventh age will occur give or take a couple of years to account for accounting errors in the generation of this number.

 

[JohnDB]

When God told Abraham this prophecy, when was He indicating that it would come true?

Genesis 15:16 - But in the fourth generation/age they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete."

It is my understanding that a generation/age has a duration of just over 1,000 years. It probably it has a duration of 1,024 year.

So, in reading the phrase "in the fourth generation/age" i.e., during the period of time from 3,072 to 4,096 year of the existence of Abraham's descendant, that Abraham's descendants will return to the place where Abraham was living at that time, i.e., the Land of Canaan. The verse does not indicate that God will be involved in their return to the Land of Canaan. It is my view that this return to the Land of Canaan occurred in 1948 AD although for some time before then, Abraham's descendants had been returning to the Land of Canaan in small numbers.

It is my understanding that 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac, that some of Abraham's descendants return to the Land of Canaan in 1948.

The second part of this verse tells us that at the time of the return of some of Abraham's descendants to the land of Canaan, that their iniquities were not yet complete. Their iniquity is their rejection of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Their father is Satan.

At this present time, they are the servants of the Little Horn and are a part of the army that has been given to him to trample God's sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, Israel. The Little Horn's trampling of God's sanctuary and earthly hosts is drawing to its completion and it is my understanding that this completion will occur in around 20 years' time.

The completion of the Little Horns trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly Hosts will be marked by the assembling of the kings of the earth at Armageddon to be judged for their involvement in the Little Horn's trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts. This judgement is also found in Isaiah 24:21-22.

The aggressor against the Nation of Israel in the Land of Canaan is predominately at the moment coming from Gaza, in league with other Islamic nations who are supporting them.

How well do we know the End Time prophetic words and can we recognise the described events when they occur?

Discuss

That's adding to the word of God.
Not gonna play.