Is Hell a place of torment?
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Nameaboveallnames
New Member
May I ask what part of his comment you disagree with?
First of all, there are three different underlying Greek works that are translated into English as "hell" in the KJV Bible. Do you believe that any of them describe a place of torment? If so, then do you believe that they describe a place of everlasting torment or just temporary torment? If it is just temporary torment, then what is the duration or length of that torment? Do you believe in annihilation or that the wicked will cease to exist at some point in time? Please provide scriptural reasons for your own beliefs. Thank you.
I don't believe ANYONE is literally tormented
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Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Jesus says those that go to hell will burn in fire that shall NOT be quenched into everlasting punishment
Mark 9:43-44
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Texts like Jude 6, Matthew 8:12, Matthew 22:13, and Matthew 25:30, and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 show that darkness signifies a state of deprivation and distress, not of destruction in the sense of ceasing to exist. Only those who exist can weep and gnash their teeth, as those banished into the darkness are said to do. Luke 16:22–24 shows that fire signifies continued existence in pain as Revelation 14:10 with 19:20 and 20:10, and Matthew 13:42, 50, confirm this.
Another good case against annihilationism is ”And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” in Rev. 14:11.
Those not accepting all of what the Lord says in His Word are easily deceived by satan's chicanery and subterfuge
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
This is a lie the devil has tricked those ignorant of God's Word in to spreading as it causes those out in the world to quit considering getting saved because that think they will cease to exist (false doctrine of annihilationism) as the false teachers claiming to be Christian espouse.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
If there is a Hell, I hope they have visiting hours because my mom and at
least one of my brothers would already be down there, and I'd really like to
see them at least one more time before they're transferred to the lake of fire
depicted by Rev 20:11-15 where the lost's resurrected bodies will be
destroyed by a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle
of molten iron.
_
If there is a Hell, I hope they have visiting hours because my mom and at
least one of my brothers would already be down there, and I'd really like to
see them at least one more time before they're transferred to the lake of fire
depicted by Rev 20:11-15 where the lost's resurrected bodies will be
destroyed by a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle
of molten iron.
_
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
I thought you knew the Word of God!
Jesus said there was a hell, so there is no further questioning if there is a hell or not.
Unless one wants to argue Jesus is a liar?
Surely you aren't going to make that argument, are ya?
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
The afterlife is something about which I know very little; but in the story
Jesus told at Luke 16:19-31, Lazarus has a finger, Abraham has a bosom,
and the rich man has eyes and a tongue. Plus, both Abraham and the rich
man are conscious and able to carry on a conversation.
Now, I have never seen the afterlife for myself, nor am I aware of any
empirical evidence to prove its existence, nor yet met anyone whose been
there and back. But if Luke 16:19-31 is a true story, then there's a possibility
I'll get to see my mom and my brother again.
_
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
You just mentioned what Jesus said about 2 people that had passed in to the after life.
I guess what Jesus says isn't good enough for ya???
Okay, let's take these three verses you cite below.
That said, are you aware that the entire verses of 44, 46 parts of verse 45 and 47 are spurious? Meaning that they do not appear in the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus.
God' word makes it clear that in the end, He will create a pure universe, free from the stain of sin and sinners — because "All the wicked will he destroy." — Psalms 145:20.
Although there isn't a single verse in the Bible that states this group can experience life in torment or any other state, there are many verses that indicate the opposite. Here are a few examples — "The wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23). "The soul that sins shall die" (Ezek. 18:4,20). "The wicked will perish" (Psalms 37:20). "In just a little while, the wicked will be no more" (Psalms 37:10). Therefore, God has clearly explained the nature of the eternal punishment for the wicked — it will be death and destruction.
Take note of what the Apostle Paul says about the punishment. He mentions that "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ". (2 Thes. 1:7, 8) In verse 9, he explains HOW this will happen; "These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power." This destruction is one from which there will be no recovery, no redemption, or resurrection — Heb. 10:26-29. This destruction is depicted in the parable as the eternal "fire" that was prepared for the devil and his angels; it is the lake of fire and brimstone, which is known as the Second death (Rev. 20:14), into which the "goat" class of this parable are cast. — Matt. 25:41.
So, you want to take this verse literally? Then I'll assume that Jesus really wanted us to cut off our hands and feet or pluck out our eyes (verses 45, 47).
That said, are you aware that the entire verses of 44, 46 parts of verse 45 and 47 are spurious? Meaning that they do not appear in the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus.
This is of course, a parable. That said, let's talk about the punishment part. Grab your Concordance and see what the Scriptures say about the punishment for willful sinners who ignore and turn away from all the good things God offers them through Christ. What do you find? Does God say — All sinners will suffer in agony forever? No; you won't find a single verse that promises any kind of life to that group.
God' word makes it clear that in the end, He will create a pure universe, free from the stain of sin and sinners — because "All the wicked will he destroy." — Psalms 145:20.
Although there isn't a single verse in the Bible that states this group can experience life in torment or any other state, there are many verses that indicate the opposite. Here are a few examples — "The wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23). "The soul that sins shall die" (Ezek. 18:4,20). "The wicked will perish" (Psalms 37:20). "In just a little while, the wicked will be no more" (Psalms 37:10). Therefore, God has clearly explained the nature of the eternal punishment for the wicked — it will be death and destruction.
Take note of what the Apostle Paul says about the punishment. He mentions that "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ". (2 Thes. 1:7, 8) In verse 9, he explains HOW this will happen; "These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power." This destruction is one from which there will be no recovery, no redemption, or resurrection — Heb. 10:26-29. This destruction is depicted in the parable as the eternal "fire" that was prepared for the devil and his angels; it is the lake of fire and brimstone, which is known as the Second death (Rev. 20:14), into which the "goat" class of this parable are cast. — Matt. 25:41.
Again, this is destruction. Strong's #3639 (olethros), which according to Professor Strong means "destruction", "death".
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
You really want to claim Jesus is ignorant and does not know what He's talking about as you are claiming by your response???
A parable is a teaching and in Jesus' teaching He confirms that hell is real.
At the rate you are going claiming Jesus is ignorant, you're going to find out first hand!
Yes, death as in separated from God meaning rather than spending eternity with the Lord they will spend eternity being tormented in hell along with the devil and all the fallen angels.
God's Word teaches hell is real, continue making the claim the Lord lied in His Word at your own peril.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
At the rate you are going claiming Jesus is ignorant, you're going to find out first hand!
You have a serious problem in that you have deceived by the enemy in to not believing God's Word.
And still no scriptures to support your views, just human reasoning.At the rate you are going claiming Jesus is ignorant, you're going to find out first hand!
You have a serious problem in that you have deceived by the enemy in to not believing God's Word.
You're starting to sound like a parrot "Big Boy". So until you show me scripture and reason, our conversation is over.You really want to claim Jesus is ignorant and does not know what He's talking about as you are claiming by your response???
A parable is a teaching and in Jesus' teaching He confirms that hell is real.
At the rate you are going claiming Jesus is ignorant, you're going to find out first hand!
Yes, death as in separated from God meaning rather than spending eternity with the Lord they will spend eternity being tormented in hell along with the devil and all the fallen angels.
God's Word teaches hell is real, continue making the claim the Lord lied in His Word at your own peril.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Jesus said hell is real and it's a place of eternal torment.
Feel free to continue claiming Jesus is a liar.
I already posted scriptures about hell which you claim are Jesus lying so take off you hoser!
Nameaboveallnames
New Member
Yes, I do.
That is precisely what he meant. Apparently, you have no clue as to how much God hates sin and to what lengths we should go to eradicate it from our lives.
Are you aware that Jesus was quoting the prophet Isaiah in those verses? Apparently not. You seem to be ignorant (willfully?) of many things.
"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh." (Isa. 66:22-24)
Lol.
Did you notice the word "Vatican" in "Codex Vaticanus?" The Vatican/the Papacy is LITERALLY the kingdom of Antichrist that the Bible warns about, and you are looking to them for "truth?!?"
Also, did you notice the word "Sinai" in "Codex Sinaiticus?" That piece of trash was LITERALLY pulled out of a garbage can in a monastery in Egypt where the duped Roman Catholics believe Mt. Sinai is. Pssst. Mount Sinai is in Arabia.
"Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children." (Gal. 4:24-25)
bdavidc
Well-Known Member
If you don’t believe anyone is literally tormented, then you don’t believe what the Bible says. Jesus spoke of “everlasting punishment” (Matthew 25:46), “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Luke 13:28), and “fire that shall never be quenched” (Mark 9:43–48). Revelation 14:11 says, “The smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever, and they have no rest day nor night.” That’s not symbolic, that’s not a metaphor, that’s literal.
If you reject that, you’re not following the God of the Bible. You’ve created a god who fits your feelings, not Scripture. That’s called idolatry, making a false god in your own image. And that path doesn’t lead to truth or salvation; it leads to judgment. Repent, believe what Jesus actually said, and stop rewriting God’s Word to make it more comfortable. Don't you think your username should be "False Berean" since you like to twist the scripture?
Nameaboveallnames
New Member
You want some verses about torment? Sure, no problem.
First of all, there are three different underlying Greek words that are translated into English as "hell" in the KJV of the Bible that I will be citing.
One of them is "hades:"
G86 - hadēs - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)
G86 - ᾅδης háidēs, hah'-dace; from (as negative particle) and ; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:—grave, hell.
www.blueletterbible.org
Here is what Jesus had to say about hades:
Luk 16:23
And in hell G86 he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Hades is a place of FIERY TORMENT.
Another underlying Greek word that is translated into English as "hell" in the KJV of the Bible is "geenna" or "gehenna:"
G1067 - geenna - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)
G1067 - γέεννα géenna, gheh'-en-nah; of Hebrew origin ( and ); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:—hell.
www.blueletterbible.org
While quoting from the prophet Isaiah (Isa. 66:22-24), this is what Jesus had to say about "gehenna:"
Mar 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, G1067 into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, G1067 into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell G1067 fire:
Mar 9:48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Elsewhere, Jesus said that this place of unquenchable or "everlasting fire" was prepared for the devil and his angels.
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" (Mat. 25:41)
This place of "everlasting fire" is a place of FIERY TORMENT.
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.' (Rev. 20:10)
(Continued in my next post)
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