Is it a sin for a Christian to vote for a Democrat?

[Giuliano]

The evidence has been presented. And more evidence is being revealed every day this week. I gave you a link to Joe Biden's talk at the CFR meeting. Did you listen to him talk about his quid-pro-quo deal with Ukraine? Biden openly admitted that he was responsible for forcing the government of Ukraine to fire a prosecutor looking into corruption associated with Burisma Energy company.

I saw that long ago. I think you may be viewing it with some prejudice.

Find out why an energy company would hire a man who had no energy experience and pay him over $50,000 a month salary. Why was this company being investigated? What did Berisma get in return for hiring the son of the Vice President of the United States? Could it be that Berisma paid for influence?

Watch the following video clip where Hunter Biden denies everything. But, pay close attention to two things: 1) he admits that he wouldn't have gotten the job had he not been the son of Joe Biden, and 2) what question did he refuse to answer?

What question does his father refuse to answer?

I agree with what Republican Senators said. It has the appearance of being shady, but they found no real evidence.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I don't really see him giving credit to a lot of people for their accomplishments with a huge fanfare.

On the contrary, he does this a lot. The MSM doesn't show it, but I watch the live feed from sources like Golden State. I'll give you an example. Last month the President awarded the metal of honor to Sgt. Paine.

"On September 11, 2020, President Donald J. Trump will award the Medal of Honor to Sergeant Major Thomas P. Payne, United States Army, for conspicuous gallantry." President Donald J. Trump to Award the Medal of Honor | The White House

He always thanks everyone, giving lavish, public praise to everyone in his cabinet. For instance, at his rallies, he constantly praises VP Pence for his performance during the VP debate. The crowds cheer very loudly.

He's been very successful. Too bad about this pandemic...if it weren't for that I'd see him winning in a landslide.

There really was no pandemic. The illness is real but the numbers are inflated about a hundred fold. According to the CDC there were a little over 9,000 deaths in the US. Masks don't work and as it turns out, lockdowns are detrimental to health and wellness. The pandemic was actually a DEM PAN IC, giving Joe Biden cover for his absence.

But that is another story. (smile)

 

[CadyandZoe]

I saw that long ago. I think you may be viewing it with some prejudice.

He is convicted by his own words.

I agree with what Republican Senators said. It has the appearance of being shady, but they found no real evidence.

Haven't you been reading the paper for the past week?

 

[Grailhunter]

I saw that long ago. I think you may be viewing it with some prejudice.

I agree with what Republican Senators said. It has the appearance of being shady, but they found no real evidence.

House Republicans urge Barr to appoint special counsel to probe alleged Biden revelations

House Republicans urge Barr to appoint special counsel to probe alleged Biden revelations

This case involves treason...money laundering.....molesting of Children....and drug use.

Rudy Giuliani turns hard drive over to Delaware police for fast action. A number of people that have inspected the drive see a number of pictures of child molestation.
Rudy Giuliani talks about "sensitive" material on the laptop of Hunter Biden including "numerous pictures" of underage girls and an alleged text message exchange he had with his father where he admits to a relationship with a 14-year-old girl and creating an unsafe environment for his children.

Giuliani: I Turned Over Hunter Biden's Laptop With Pictures Of "Underage Girls" To Delaware Police

Hunter business partner confirms email, details Joe Biden’s push to make millions from China: Goodwin

https://nypost.com/2020/10/22/hunte...s-joe-bidens-push-to-make-millions-from-china

Hunter Biden Business Partner Confirms Email Showing Joe Was Offered 10 Percent Stake in Chinese Business Deal

Hunter Biden Business Partner Confirms Email Showing Joe Was Offered 10 Percent Stake in Chinese Business Deal

When we entered Baghdad the Iraqi General was on the air telling the Iraqi people that they were winning the war....as the building was crumbling around him from missile strikes. They ran from the room with ceiling falling. lol That would be you Giuliano!

 

[Giuliano]

He is convicted by his own words.

Haven't you been reading the paper for the past week?

I am sure I haven't been reading the same things you have been.

 

[Ziggy]

Tonight, at the debate, when they push 'death count' vs. POTUS, remember this simple fact.
Q

 

[Ziggy]

I understand people don't like long videos.
This is 60 Minutes Interview with Donald Trump released about 7 hours ago.
I haven't watched it yet, it is about 38 minutes long.
I'm going to post it and watch it from this link.

 

[marks]

I understand people don't like long videos.
This is 60 Minutes Interview with Donald Trump released about 7 hours ago.
I haven't watched it yet, it is about 38 minutes long.
I'm going to post it and watch it from this link.

I wonder how this will affect how they edit the interview to air.

Much love!

 

[Naomi25]

Ahhh, I see you are a student of common sense....Congratulations....School of hard knocks? Or are you someone that just pays attention?
There is a correct answer and it is not a mystery. I am sure that the politics in Australia has it erro-synchronicities. (yes it is a Grailhunter word.) The answer lies in men or the lies of of men ends up being the answer we get. lol Politics is chaos and dog eat dog. If a Christian is only going to vote for a person that is near perfect....that Christian is not going to vote and it is important for Christians to vote. For a good Christian to understand politics they have to understand the concept of the "norm." It does not matter if they are Republicans or Democrats the baseline is that they are liars, schemers, and all have skeletons in their closet. Christians have to look past that.

In the old days Christians could look at person and look at their leadership qualities. Do they actually do what they promised. And by do, I mean, not only did they try, but were they successful at it. Does the person support Christian morals and values. The guy might be a drunken poker player but his initiatives, the things he strives for, do they support Christian values and morals. That is the done column and the do column. Is he or she against abortion? Is he or she actually successful at reducing drug trafficking. Is he or she an advocate of law and order. Does he or she stand up for Christian rights? Does he or she stand up for the minorities? Does he or she know how to negotiate with countries on policy or trade. Does he or she have to go to war to address issues or can he or she negotiate the terms and get it done and keep the peace Does he or she promote good education? Does he or she know how to promote a good economy? Does he or she have a good plan for healthcare? Does he or she have to raise taxes to get their programs to work or do they have the ingenuity to get it done without raising taxes. etc etc etc

In the old days you were evaluating the person. Those days are long gone. The politics in America are such that for sometime now the line has been drawn. It is no longer conservative and liberal. It is moral and unmoral, patriotic and unpatriotic. That is the dividing line. If the issue is abortion...all the Republicans vote against it and all of the Democrats vote for it. If the topic is gay marriage all the Republicans vote against it and all the Democrats vote for it. If the issue is legalizing drugs....all of the Republicans vote against it and all of the Democrats vote for it. If the topic is raising taxes, the Republicans vote against it and the Democrats vote for it. etc etc If the congress or senate is ruled by the opposing party, they will generally work against the President. Certainly there are exceptions to the rules, but in either case if the politicians do not vote along party lines they are chastised by their own party.

So to actually be effective the voter has to vote with the party that best represent their views....for Christians it is the party that best accomplishes their morals. Not that politicians are perfectly moral, but what they accomplish is moral. Not that, that is perfect either. You have to pick a side, because if you don't and the senate and congress and governors are split then it is like tying the tails of two cats together and throwing them over a clothesline....they will do nothing but tear each other up and that will take up their time and minds so that they are ineffective at governing. Effectively what we have is the American party and the Communist party....a party that acknowledges the importance of God and morals and a party that does not acknowledge the importance of God and moral. If a Democrat were to stand up at one of their rallies and talk about God they would lose most of their support. So that is what a Christians has to consider here in America.

Civil rights is another matter and i am sure your country has things going on with the aborigines. Here the Democrats have been able to convince the minorities that they were their party, but they have played them for fools. They really have not done anything for them for 50 years. They pay attention to the criminal element and put them on welfare but assume that if you gave the them a chance they could not succeed. That is what makes President Trump different than his fellow Republicans and the Democrats. He believes in access to a good education and an economy that promotes jobs....the American dream. A lot of minorities own homes and during his administration, more minorities have jobs and homes.

As far as the looting, burning and murderous mobs, that the Democrats call peaceful protests, you can read the posts on that.

Well...I'd just say I was paying attention...but also...mostly its conviction. As I suppose all Christians act on, even when we differ. And thus we find the Church in such a disarray on this topic...so many of us are on 'different sides' due to the convictions of what we find morally and biblically the right thing to do and support. Which I think leads to confusion, frustration and yes, even anger against our brothers and sisters that they don't see eye to eye on such...important, moral issues. The fact that politics is also so polarizing is also a problem...the parties are so far opposites that it seems there can be no middle ground...indeed, voting for a 'safe middle option' could be argued as a complete cop-out...avoiding standing for important issues one way or the other.
I suppose I just hope that after the election, which ever way it goes, that a bit of harmony can settle over the church again and a bit of hindsight can be bought to bare on some of our failings in regards to how we've dealt with the differing views.

 

[Heyzeus]

Mr. Smarty Pants....the soul is your mind.
We a 3 parts...body, soul and spirit.
Now there are scriptures that mention our soul and ones that mention our spirit.
Are they the same or different?

Right .. and I am agreeing with you and the mind is not present .. not functional - until the time period specified in the last post.

 

[kcnalp]

Let who live .. the cows . the trees .. shall we save every sperm because it is a potential human.

You keep saying "let them live" .. but you can't seem to figure out who the them you are referring to is.

I suppose pointing out flaws in logic to a rabid anti abortionist could be viewed as defending early abortion - but, it is more a defense of logic, reason, and the principle that constitutes the rock on which Jesus based his teachings.

Abortion is murder! You are supporting murder of babies.

I will not be voting for Dems this go round .. but - no .. my vote is not based on desiring some strict sharia style theocracy as yours is.

Another lie!

I wish we would get the Religious right out of Politics.. see post 571 on Goldwater.

Yes .. I did indeed .. because that is exactly what you want to do .. If you had your way we would be living in strict sharia land .. following God's Word to the letter .

And another lie!

1) so you have no problem forcing religious belief on others through physical violence - w/r to essential liberty

And another lie!

2) you claim this is on the basis of "letting them live" .. but previously you were arguing that "God's Word" is to kill those babies - and that you agreed these Laws from Jesus in the good old days of the OT.

Another lie!

So you want to force your version of God's word on others .. which includes killing babies and children - and "them" at what ever stage of development.

And another lie!

but you want to also use "God's Name" as there is nowhere in the word that supports your nonsense claim so we can't call your prognostications "God's word" -to force your unsupported made up religious beliefs on others - through physical violence.

And another lie!

How come you get to be the one to choose which fetuses (alone with babies and children) get killed ? - yet you have such concern for a single human cell that is nowhere near a Fetus .

And another lie! That's at least seven lies you told in one post! I wonder how many lies before someone here gets warned. And you wonder why I asked if you're a Liberal?

 

[Ziggy]

And thus we find the Church in such a disarray on this topic...so many of us are on 'different sides' due to the convictions of what we find morally and biblically the right thing to do and support. Which I think leads to confusion, frustration and yes, even anger against our brothers and sisters that they don't see eye to eye on such...important, moral issues.

Hi Naomi25,
Do you think the dissaray comes from asking other people how they feel about what other people do?
I think if the question was straight forward, what would you do? , you would probably find more common ground.
It's easy to point the finger and say you should this or you shouldn't that.
But when the finger is pointed at oneself, where it should be by the way, It's a whole different picture.

What do you think?
Because this is what I think.
HUGS

 

[Ziggy]

I wonder how this will affect how they edit the interview to air.

Much love!

The problem I find with the interview isn't the questions. It's the way Trump answers them.
I found myself answering the questions for him. Why don't you say this, how come you didn't say that.
I've watched almost every rally, round table, conference, briefings, you name it.
And I know what he has said and hasn't said.
And she LIED about a LOT of things he never said.
Very frustrating.
If someone was harrasing you for 3 years with law suits, and hearings, and foia requests, and accusations, and and and..
And when it was over they found nothing, in fact evidence shows the collusion was by the other party.
And they say nothing, do nothing, deny deny deny...
Grrrrrr.
That man has more patience than I do.
Luv ya back
HUGS

 

[Heyzeus]

Abortion is murder! You are supporting murder of babies.

I don't support murder of babies .. You don't seem to know what a baby is and are confused.

What is a fact however is your support for the murder of babies .. as you claim that all of the Bible is God's word.

You believe Jesus has commanded you to go out and kill babies .. Do you not accept the word of God ? Do you not wish to follow God's word ?

 

[marks]

The problem I find with the interview isn't the questions. It's the way Trump answers them.
I found myself answering the questions for him. Why don't you say this, how come you didn't say that.

That was me the last town hall. All these questions she's asking, there are great answers, 1 or 2 sentences, but he didn't give them!

I just keep praying for him!

Much love!

 

[Ziggy]

I don't support murder of babies .. You don't seem to know what a baby is and are confused.

What is a fact however is your support for the murder of babies .. as you claim that all of the Bible is God's word.

Your Jesus has commanded you to go out and kill babies .. Do you not accept the word of God ? Do you not wish to follow God's word ?

Hey zeus,
Do you support abortion?

 

[Heyzeus]

Hey zeus,
Do you support abortion?

At what stage .. should we ban masturbation ? - is every sperm "sacred" as per the Monty Python skit ?

I do believe that at some point during the process - abortion is morally wrong - that point being when a soul is present.

Do note that there is a difference between A) having a religious belief and B) forcing that belief on someone else through physical violence

- and so for this reason I am against legislation on the basis of individual religious belief. I do not want Theocracy - and Jesus did not want this either.

 

[kcnalp]

At what stage .. should we ban masturbation ? - is every sperm "sacred" as per the Monty Python skit ?

I do believe that at some point during the process - abortion is morally wrong - that point being when a soul is present.

Do not that there is a difference between A) having a religious belief and B) forcing that belief on someone else through physical violence

- and so for this reason I am against legislation on the basis of individual religious belief. I do not want Theocracy - and Jesus did not want this either.

Only God knows for sure. You're playing God. Let them live!

 

[Grailhunter]

Well...I'd just say I was paying attention...but also...mostly its conviction. As I suppose all Christians act on, even when we differ. And thus we find the Church in such a disarray on this topic...so many of us are on 'different sides' due to the convictions of what we find morally and biblically the right thing to do and support. Which I think leads to confusion, frustration and yes, even anger against our brothers and sisters that they don't see eye to eye on such...important, moral issues. The fact that politics is also so polarizing is also a problem...the parties are so far opposites that it seems there can be no middle ground...indeed, voting for a 'safe middle option' could be argued as a complete cop-out...avoiding standing for important issues one way or the other.
I suppose I just hope that after the election, which ever way it goes, that a bit of harmony can settle over the church again and a bit of hindsight can be bought to bare on some of our failings in regards to how we've dealt with the differing views.

Communism is not really politics.
I do not believe in making mountains out of mole hills.
The issues that we are dealing with are so evil that there is no middle ground....are Christians going to come to a middle ground and agree to only murder 300,000 babies next year? Are we going to teach are children to only use some drugs? Are Christians going to abandon biblical morals regarding homosexuality and gay marriage?

You know I am multi-denominational and that takes a certain amount of tolerance and middle ground. But I can do that without violating the basic morality of Christianity. I believe Christians have the right to believe differently, but they need to admit to themselves and others that they are not in accordance with the scriptures. And I am not a traditional Christian, for example I believe in Yahweh, God the Father, creator of all things...I believe in God the Son, the real blood Son of God, our Savior. I believe in the unnamed God, the Holy Spirit. I believe that they are united, in accord, but not one person. Now that is debate. And that is a difference in theology. But I am willing to admit to myself and others that there are scriptures that indicate that Yeshua was /is eternal, that Yahweh has pretty much turned everything over to Christ and some scriptures indicate that Yeshua was the creator God. So that mean that there are things that I disagree with in the Bible. But I admit it.

But harmony and tolerance, what do they mean? Theology is one thing but over the top evil is another. Are we going to hold the Bible in one hand and say anything goes by mouth? Is it just an opinion that some Christians support not only the murder of babies, but 8 million babies, just in the United States alone. At least people need to be honest with themselves. They believe in Christ, they want to call themselves Christians but they need to admit they hold no allegiance to biblical morals. It could be a new denomination! They could put a positive spin, the "Morals free" religion. It is a slippery slop because, if you give evil an inch, Satan will take a mile.

What is next, people taking their elderly parents to bless them with euthanasia, that way we are killing at both ends?
What about troublesome teenagers, what about retro abortions....we would not want to call it murder. At least admit it, that they believe in the anything goes religion. These people that say they are Christians but do not stand for morals are straight up hypocrites. At least if they admit that their moral compass in not inline with Bible...then they are not hypocrites and they can start a new denomination. "We believe in Christ, but we are really not that concerned about the Bible. Some of this is more than just differences and there is no middle ground.

 

[Naomi25]

Hi Naomi25,
Do you think the dissaray comes from asking other people how they feel about what other people do?
I think if the question was straight forward, what would you do? , you would probably find more common ground.
It's easy to point the finger and say you should this or you shouldn't that.
But when the finger is pointed at oneself, where it should be by the way, It's a whole different picture.

What do you think?
Because this is what I think.
HUGS

Hi Ziggy. I think you're right...if we approached it in terms of truly wanting to know what and why our brothers and sister thought about the topic, we might get some good dialogue on the subject. I think the problem comes because people start from a point where they have already made up their mind on what, why and who and it...distresses them when people hold different opinions. Perhaps its because it questions their own thinking or moral compass, or because they believe the others are just that WRONG.
And, yes, I suppose it's true that these issue are important. But I don't think they should be important enough to be aggressive with others over. Maybe baffled, sure. But I think it's okay to confess to others that you can't quite understand how they're thinking. I think most people will eagerly share with you how they arrived at that place if you give them the chance! It just has to be a conversation about sharing, rather than convincing. And that's not really where we are as a society at the moment...sadly.