Is it a sin for a Christian to vote for a Democrat?

[Ziggy]

I was a kid when George Bush Jr was President of the USA, I didn't think of him as a bad leader, I thought he was quite respectable and an honourable man as a kid.

But you would know more than me. I guess it was just his public image at the time. Kind of like how John Howard had quite a good public image at the time, they both seemed quite professional about their jobs.

But politics didn't look as dirty in those days, it seemed a lot more innocent.

Until you get into the Bush Dynasty.
I remember where I was on 9/11/2001
9/11 was an iside job.
There was no weapons of mass destruction and Jr. laughed about it.
I remember the night Shock and Awe commenced. I cried and cried.
All those people... for the love of money.

I don't know when we've had a government that wasn't crooked to some extreme.
The games people play.
We don't have leaders, no country does. We have puppets that dance to the pulling of the strings by the bank masters.
All for the love of money.

Until now...
At least some of the scum is getting scraped from the sides of the swamp.
But getting to the bottom of it ... that will take a miracle.

 

[kcnalp]

Let the Sperm live ? You seriously think every sperm is sacred .

Wow .. how is it that you think a sperm is so valuable .. but you agree with the slaughter the babies and children in towns for the actions of some of the townspeople whom these babies are not related to .. because you think this is God's Law.

That is downright loopy in my books

Why do you want to kill them?

 

[kcnalp]

That is one of the dumbest things Paul said - not his brightest moment .. and definitely not inspired.

You consistently trash the Bible. I'll take Paul's Word against yours any day.

That said .. it is no surprise that you think that nasty Totalitarian Dictators like Hitler and Stalin are Gods Chosen servants for your your benefit and you should not rebel against them.

These nasty dictators would have no problem implementing your version of "Gods Word" and institute the slaughter all the babies and children in towns as punishment for the actions of others in the town who were worshiping other Gods.

My version? I have 39 English translations and they all say you're wrong. Have you ever read the Bible? God sends WICKED people to punish other wicked people. You should read the Bible instead of ripping out pages.

Isaiah 10:5-12 (NKJV)
5 "Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hand is My indignation. 6 I will send him against an ungodly nation, And against the people of My wrath I will give him charge, To seize the spoil, to take the prey, And to tread them down like the mire of the streets. 7 Yet he does not mean so, Nor does his heart think so; But it is in his heart to destroy, And cut off not a few nations. 8 For he says, 'Are not my princes altogether kings? 9 Is not Calno like Carchemish? Is not Hamath like Arpad? Is not Samaria like Damascus? 10 As my hand has found the kingdoms of the idols, Whose carved images excelled those of Jerusalem and Samaria, 11 As I have done to Samaria and her idols, Shall I not do also to Jerusalem and her idols?' " 12 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the LORD has performed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, that He will say, "I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his haughty looks."

 

[kcnalp]

Right .. and I am agreeing with you and the mind is not present .. not functional - until the time period specified in the last post.

You don't know that. Only God does!

 

[JohnDB]

I was a kid when George Bush Jr was President of the USA, I didn't think of him as a bad leader, I thought he was quite respectable and an honourable man as a kid.

But you would know more than me. I guess it was just his public image at the time. Kind of like how John Howard had quite a good public image at the time, they both seemed quite professional about their jobs.

But politics didn't look as dirty in those days, it seemed a lot more innocent.

Son,
There's a lot about politics that's been dirty for a long time.
Kennedy is infamous for getting shot and his affairs with various women.
He had nothing on Johnson.
Johnson's wife had a buzzer installed in the oval office so that he could get the intern out of his lap as she was approaching. She was tired of seeing it.
Same Johnson that was the focus of the ire of the Pentagon Papers. (Google will explain the pentagon papers)

For all of Nixon's bad press he actually galvanized the Republicans...had many good ideas. He wasn't too good at keeping those close to him in line and trusted them wayyy too much. Which is how the watergate scandal came about. (And Spiro Agnew's tax issues)

Ford was at least honest for never getting elected.
People were tired of all the lying and deceiving do a new guy came into office claiming to be a Baptist Preacher from Bible Belt Georgia. Also claimed to be a peanut farmer. (Worst farmer around in truth but...,)
And that was the biggest mistake this country ever made.

We seen robber barrons try to take over. We had every nation laughing at our weakness. Our military was in shambles with outdated equipment prone to failure and no real commitment or morale. He even insulted our allies. We had double digit inflation and mortgages. Our economy was going down in flames while a few profited immensely.
The president responsible was Carter.
(He still is annoying to this day and absolutely a joke) He was anything but honest. He and Johnson packed the Supreme court with activist judges and made it Liberal (although one turned conservative on Carter) Reagan came next and was better in some ways and worse in others...but at least we got dug out of the financial hole this nation was in. Jobs started appearing. But again was surrounded by swamp rats looking to profit.
He never actually tried to stop the flow of drugs (cocaine) into America because of his wanting to replace certain elements in South America. He approved and signed every crazy budget congress created. He got his military spending (and a ton of waste) but it was like drunken sailor spending for congress. They didn't even think about stopping the illegal entry level in America.
He was a divorced man...and he actually loved Nancy. He didn't cheat on her.

His VP Bush was too easily swayed. The Congress had changed a couple of times. Ok Teddy got all the way caught up in banking and mailroom scandals. And a bunch of banking accounting scandals finally caught up with Bush so he was out...he wasn't his predecessor...he got paid to "look elsewhere" for too long by campaign donations. But his "read my lips" fiasco was his biggest undoing. It pissed everyone off. And even though it was gamesmanship of the Democrats they elected one for president.
Clinton was a schmuck. He was for sale in every sense of the word. But he wasn't an idiot either. He gamed everyone...he took money from both sides of every issue and promised them whatever they wanted. Only if opposed money didn't contribute did you get your request.
That's the way things played in Arkansas and the White House.
The workings of reagan and bush were finally really working out... businesses were soaring and a republican congress under Newt Gingrich had things under control.
Of course he had a girlfriend...just like Bill Clinton did. Bill was no fan of the military...did everything he could to poke at them. Including the "don't ask; don't tell" policy. He was a draft dodging hippy in his college days. He was "Mr popularity". Anything to get people to like him.

Then came your hero... George W.
He really wasn't much about being a leader...he was somewhat lazy. He didn't really have a fire about issues of the day. He just "filled in the blanks" type of guy. Never questioned the questions.
He did what the advisors told him. That was all. He had some really good ones. But wasn't concerned about the future...had no real vision about going anywhere and doing anything like Reagan did and Bill Clinton claimed. (Hillary had one but lost it during the DC stint and had access to real numbers and facts outside of the rhetoric)

 

[Heyzeus]

Okay....His Sword is His Word....it is our weapon against the enemy, it is our strength in time of need.
The soul is willful and can be proud and haughty and rebel against His Truth. The soul is carnal and causes us to try to reason or logically explain His Word within its own ability to comprehend and understand the things of God. The soul can choose of its own free will to trust and believe in His Word or not. But, the soul can be disciplined to have the mind of Christ if it seeks His Word. The Soul desires truth, wisdom, knowledge and understanding and the soul that is saved willingly lays aside man's wisdom and seeks His Wisdom.
The spirit is born of God and is righteous through Christ. The spirit is strengthened and empowered by the Word daily.
The spirit understands the mind and will of God and seeks to be like Him in all areas of life.
The Sword divides the soul and spirit because one is fleshly and the other is spiritual....
So when Jesus said Be ye not conformed to the things of the world but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.
We have to retrain our soul in the way it thinks and feels and reacts to the world.

I like most of what you say except the "we can not know the things of God" part. Too often this is used as a cop out by the literalist - desperate to resolve the problems that this position creates. I agree that there are things about God we do not know .. but, this does not mean we throw logic and reason out the window - God did not give us a brain for nothing - if he wanted an automaton that did nothing but sing praises to God all day long - then that is how it would be.

This would not make for good reality TV either .. and in heaven there are millions of channels to choose from ... as many as habitable worlds in the Universe - from which you can choose where your next vacation will be.

 

[Heyzeus]

Thank You

So when you go to heaven - and after 10,000 years of Hail Mary's you wish to take a vacation - and live out another life on one of the millions of world out there in the Universe. The one rule being that you will not remember your past life .. until you get back to heaven - where would you go ?


I don't believe we get to choose. I believe the choice is made for us.
So let's say some people don't believe God is a person. They believe God is Energy, the source.
And everything everywhere is made of energy. Even dark matter which is the non material between the material has energy.
Everything comes from and returns and always is a part of that energy, All the time.
Even a decompsing body is generating energy by the simple fact it's decomposing.
It's a doing thing. As long as something is doing, then energy is in it.
That is, God is all and in all.
Energy is moving through time and space.
Let's get personal shall we?
When a man a woman "know" eachother, they are doing.
Singularly within both there is energy. The energy coming from the man combines with the energy from the woman.
The husband shall cleave unto his wife and the wife shall cleave to her husband.
They both have energy in them. We call this energy Life.
Now during this "knowing" , a new energy, a new doing, is beginning.
At no point in time is energy not present.
Energy is in the sperm and in the egg. They are doing what they do.
When they bump into eachother figuratively speaking, we get the Big Bang.
And they two shall become one flesh.
It's still doing.
So the energy that makes up the mind of a zygote is was and always has been present.
At no time is there no energy, the energy is always present.
This would relate to the wiring of the brain.
It's always been there. Whether that wiring comes from the male or from the female or the combination of both,
the wiring is ever present. At no time was the wiring non existent. Because the energy is always present.

Then we come to housing of the wiring. What we call a brain.
Like putting a hot wire into an electric box.
If the power is always on you better be wearing some heavy duty rubber gloves.
Now the electric box is what houses the energy. It's a physical storage place that keeps and protects and has switches to where that energy is directed.
Heart, Organs, Limbs, the house. Livingroom kitchen bathroom etc.
Without the energy in the brain the lights don't go on in the bathroom.
So in order for the entire house to function properly energy must be flowing freely through it at all times.

That's the physical and functioning beginning of life.

Then we come to personality. Who are you?
At what point did you become you?
Have you always existed but need a new house?
Did you get to choose this house or was it designed for you in mind?
And what if the house isn't functioning properly?
If the house can't house you because of malfuntion, maybe that's what happens in miscarriages.
But now where are you?
I believe you are still the energy. It's just we need to find a new junction box and a new house.
Ashes to ashes and dust to dust (Physical), and the spirit/you returns to God/energy.

So the question is:
If the energy is flowing and the junction box is wired and the house is fully functional,
Do you have the authority to pull the plug?
Do you have the authority to dismantle the house?
Do you have the authority to destroy life?

Thanks for the well thought out and coherent response .. something one can get one's teeth into.

Existence is a strange thing - something I do not think is comprehensible in certain respects. So what does the Universe tell us ? I believe that this is God speaking .. and part of the reason we were given a brain. - we were not given a brain to say "Gods ways are incomprehensible"

So here is what we know for sure. We are made of matter and energy (and perhaps some dark stuff we have not yet figured out) Matter and Energy transform one into the other at the sub-atomic level so we can talk as if these are one in the same . but it matters not for this argument.

At some point- the M/E assumed a configuration that became aware of itself. Proof - you exist. I think therefor I am.
In order for this to happen - there had to be a finite probability that this could happen.

Assumption - "Time is infinite" - if this assumption holds .. then existence is infinite .. as all finite probabilities repeat given an infinite amount of time .. . not only does this probability repeat - it does so an infinite number of times.

So what ever configuration that makes up you - this configuration will come together again.

Now of course this all assumes no intervention by an external force such as a God - but at the same time - assumes the existence of an external force (known as the forces of the universe) which itself could be God's hand at work.

The difference here is whether or not God is an active force - tinkering with the machinery that is already set up - or whether God just lets things run their course.

I am of the belief that God does not intervene .. has a number of experiments running - and checks up on them from time to time Perhaps there is a small intervention from time to time ... but I do not believe it was God's hand that led the Church into the abyss after it got Power under Constantine.

If God was continuously intervening -- then we might as well just be automatons - and that is not the case.

Thought experiment. So Matter/Energy gets together and becomes aware of itself - is able to have thoughts. OK - that is an interesting thing that has happened .. but how did that thought then manifest itself into physical reality - the first time.

Look down at your pinky finger .. now wiggle it .. now tell me how you did that ? Somehow a thought was transformed into physical reality..
By sheer "force of will" you made this thing happen. Similar to how the universe was created by a thought but different.

While you have the ability - through force of will - to manifest a thought into physical reality - you can only do this within the confines of your own Body --- and even then your abilities are relatively limited - although not as limited as one might think.

If you could use your will to manipulate energy/Matter outside your Body .. this would be "God like" powers.

Now if God is the universe - then God does not even need to have the power to manipulate matter/energy externally - because every part of the Universe is part of God's body.

So back to the initial question - "When does the soul arrive" or was it there all along.

According to my observation of the universe .. Matter/Energy has to have assumed a certain configuration prior to on being physically capable of having knowledge of one's own existence. I think therefor I am .. and If there is no such awareness - I am not.

 

[Heyzeus]

Why do you want to kill them?

Repetition of nonsense - does not make it any less nonsensical

 

[Heyzeus]

You don't know that. Only God does!

and neither do you ... but you claim otherwise .. that is the difference.

 

[Heyzeus]

You consistently trash the Bible. I'll take Paul's Word against yours any day.

My version? I have 39 English translations and they all say you're wrong. Have you ever read the Bible? God sends WICKED people to punish other wicked people. You should read the Bible instead of ripping out pages."

If you wish to believe that nasty dictators such as Hitler were sent to us by God for our own benefit .. and that we should not rebel against such evil men because they are God's emissaries for our own Good .. you are welcome to your Sheeple ideology.

If you wish to be thankful to God for sending Hitler to gas all those Jews - you are welcome to this belief.

Your claim that I am trashing the Bible in saying this is false. What I am trashing is your literalist perspective. One need not believe that every sentence from Paul's hand was inspired to believe in the Bible.

Paul was very smart in writing this passage - and may well have saved Christianity by doing so - as this passage would please Ceasar greatly.
That does not mean that this passage was inspired by God .. it was a necessity at the time.

This does not trash the Bible - but uplifts it by resolving an awful passage - one that made sense in the moment - but makes no sense when applied generally .. as the literalist is forced to do - thus trashing the Bible.

So as it turns out .. it is you that is trashing the Bible - by taking Paul's words out of context .. and not me. I am not even trashing Paul - as I think his decision was a good one at the time - but his words do not apply to all time.

Lastly - Jesus was a "rebel" who rebelled against authority - and continually encourages his followers to rebel against authority.

So you can take Paul's words over my words ... but, you are also taking Paul's words over the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I like most of what you say except the "we can not know the things of God" part. Too often this is used as a cop out by the literalist - desperate to resolve the problems that this position creates. I agree that there are things about God we do not know .. but, this does not mean we throw logic and reason out the window - God did not give us a brain for nothing - if he wanted an automaton that did nothing but sing praises to God all day long - then that is how it would be.

This would not make for good reality TV either .. and in heaven there are millions of channels to choose from ... as many as habitable worlds in the Universe - from which you can choose where your next vacation will be.

Actually, I didn't say we can't know...I referred to how the carnal mind cannot know. You have to become spiritually minded to know the things of God.

Romans 8 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁵ For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
⁶ For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
⁷ Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
⁸ So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 Corinthians 2 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
⁷ But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
⁸ Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
⁹ But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
¹⁰ But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
¹¹ For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
¹² Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
¹³ Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
¹⁴ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

…
¹⁶ For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Heyzeus]

Actually, I didn't say we can't know...I referred to how the carnal mind cannot know. You have to become spiritually minded to know the things of God.

Romans 8 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁵ For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
⁶ For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
⁷ Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
⁸ So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 Corinthians 2 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
⁷ But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
⁸ Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
⁹ But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
¹⁰ But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
¹¹ For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
¹² Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
¹³ Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
¹⁴ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

…
¹⁶ For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

OK ... so how does one distinguish the carnal mind from the spiritually minded ? and can one not have both.

In Proverbs we read that God hates the one who is always rushing out to do evil - but it is not always so obvious what evil is.

The Religious right pretty much unanimously supports Political activism - with the goal of forcing personal (non Scriptural) religious belief on others through physical violence - and I am not just talking about abortion here.. The religious right also supports - en mass - evil Policy such as blind support for Israel... even though a whole lot of Jewish people in Israel do not support this evil policy.

So what are we to say then .. the overwhelming majority of the Religious right is not "Spiritually minded " ?

I don't believe this .. I believe the majority of the Religious right is in fact spiritually minded .. but they have been deceived by wolves in sheeps clothing that Jesus refers to in Matt 7. So while the intentions are good .. the actions are bad. and this is how one recognizes the Wolves as per scripture - by actions .. not by profession of faith.

The way to recognize the spiritually minded person - is though actions .. not through profession of faith. Not all those who call Lord Lord -will enter the Kingdom of heaven .. "Only those that do the will of the Father" .. which is right action .. according to Jesus in his most famous Sermon which deals specifically with "the will of the Father" ..

It is unfortunate that Luke edits "The will of the Father" out .. but, this is what those who want to rely on "Faith alone" do .. they edit out parts of the Bible they disagree with .. hide these passages away in a box somewhere .. and dismissed accordingly. Is this "spiritually minded" .. was this God inspiring Luke to make nonsense out of the Teachings of Jesus in Mark/Matt ? I don't think so. This is the carnal mind at work IMO.

 

[Heart2Soul]

OK ... so how does one distinguish the carnal mind from the spiritually minded ? and can one not have both.

In Proverbs we read that God hates the one who is always rushing out to do evil - but it is not always so obvious what evil is.

The Religious right pretty much unanimously supports Political activism - with the goal of forcing personal (non Scriptural) religious belief on others through physical violence - and I am not just talking about abortion here.. The religious right also supports - en mass - evil Policy such as blind support for Israel... even though a whole lot of Jewish people in Israel do not support this evil policy.

So what are we to say then .. the overwhelming majority of the Religious right is not "Spiritually minded " ?

I don't believe this .. I believe the majority of the Religious right is in fact spiritually minded .. but they have been deceived by wolves in sheeps clothing that Jesus refers to in Matt 7. So while the intentions are good .. the actions are bad. and this is how one recognizes the Wolves as per scripture - by actions .. not by profession of faith.

The way to recognize the spiritually minded person - is though actions .. not through profession of faith. Not all those who call Lord Lord -will enter the Kingdom of heaven .. "Only those that do the will of the Father" .. which is right action .. according to Jesus in his most famous Sermon which deals specifically with "the will of the Father" ..

It is unfortunate that Luke edits "The will of the Father" out .. but, this is what those who want to rely on "Faith alone" do .. they edit out parts of the Bible they disagree with .. hide these passages away in a box somewhere .. and dismissed accordingly. Is this "spiritually minded" .. was this God inspiring Luke to make nonsense out of the Teachings of Jesus in Mark/Matt ? I don't think so. This is the carnal mind at work IMO.

Now you have added the Will of God to the topic. This is too huge and complex to discuss in short posts.
God Bless!

 

[Heyzeus]

Now you have added the Will of God to the topic. This is too huge and complex to discuss in short posts.
God Bless!

Don't see how the spiritual mind vs carnal mind can be addressed without addressing the "Will of the Father" The spiritual mind strives to do the will of the Father .. the Carnal mind does not.

 

[Ziggy]

Thanks for the well thought out and coherent response .. something one can get one's teeth into.

Existence is a strange thing - something I do not think is comprehensible in certain respects. So what does the Universe tell us ? I believe that this is God speaking .. and part of the reason we were given a brain. - we were not given a brain to say "Gods ways are incomprehensible"

So here is what we know for sure. We are made of matter and energy (and perhaps some dark stuff we have not yet figured out) Matter and Energy transform one into the other at the sub-atomic level so we can talk as if these are one in the same . but it matters not for this argument.

At some point- the M/E assumed a configuration that became aware of itself. Proof - you exist. I think therefor I am.
In order for this to happen - there had to be a finite probability that this could happen.

Assumption - "Time is infinite" - if this assumption holds .. then existence is infinite .. as all finite probabilities repeat given an infinite amount of time .. . not only does this probability repeat - it does so an infinite number of times.

So what ever configuration that makes up you - this configuration will come together again.

Now of course this all assumes no intervention by an external force such as a God - but at the same time - assumes the existence of an external force (known as the forces of the universe) which itself could be God's hand at work.

The difference here is whether or not God is an active force - tinkering with the machinery that is already set up - or whether God just lets things run their course.

I am of the belief that God does not intervene .. has a number of experiments running - and checks up on them from time to time Perhaps there is a small intervention from time to time ... but I do not believe it was God's hand that led the Church into the abyss after it got Power under Constantine.

If God was continuously intervening -- then we might as well just be automatons - and that is not the case.

Thought experiment. So Matter/Energy gets together and becomes aware of itself - is able to have thoughts. OK - that is an interesting thing that has happened .. but how did that thought then manifest itself into physical reality - the first time.

Look down at your pinky finger .. now wiggle it .. now tell me how you did that ? Somehow a thought was transformed into physical reality..
By sheer "force of will" you made this thing happen. Similar to how the universe was created by a thought but different.

While you have the ability - through force of will - to manifest a thought into physical reality - you can only do this within the confines of your own Body --- and even then your abilities are relatively limited - although not as limited as one might think.

If you could use your will to manipulate energy/Matter outside your Body .. this would be "God like" powers.

Now if God is the universe - then God does not even need to have the power to manipulate matter/energy externally - because every part of the Universe is part of God's body.

So back to the initial question - "When does the soul arrive" or was it there all along.

According to my observation of the universe .. Matter/Energy has to have assumed a certain configuration prior to on being physically capable of having knowledge of one's own existence. I think therefor I am .. and If there is no such awareness - I am not.

Yeah, that was deep, ok.

(Look down at your pinky finger .. now wiggle it .. now tell me how you did that ? Somehow a thought was transformed into physical reality..
By sheer "force of will" you made this thing happen. Similar to how the universe was created by a thought but different.)
so I have one verse or 2 they are a continual thought:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

(By sheer "force of will" you made this thing happen.)
In the Beginning God "SAID", let there be light. Light/energy/source/Life.

What is the ultimate "Will" of God?
What was the purpose for creating anything?

Where did God come from?

I've had this nagging question for years..
Before God said, Let there be Light....and God saw the light that it was good.
What did God see before he saw the light?

Was the Light always in him and yet wasn't seen until he spoke it?
I think I can find this concept.. I may have just answered my own question.

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

The lamb is the light, and God saw the light that it was good.
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
The lamb is the glory of God.
whew..

(At some point- the M/E assumed a configuration that became aware of itself. Proof - you exist. I think therefor I am.
In order for this to happen - there had to be a finite probability that this could happen.)

And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

so getting back to the soul..
God placed a child inside of Mary.
That child is the Lamb of God
The Lamb of God is the Glory of God.
And the Glory of God became flesh.

Did God know the his own glory prior to the gestation of the pregnancy?
Did the child in Mary's womb know he was God before he was even born?

deep thoughts.
I'm enjoying this discussion
Thank you

 

[Ziggy]

Then there's John.
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John was literally shouting the Glory of God!

The Word is that force. It's what brings the invisible into the visible.
For God, who commanded (WORD) the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Command (Word)
Go forth and multiply and be fruitful.

Is I am already pre-installed in all of us?
John lept in Elisabeths womb upon hearing Mary.. Hey Lisa how ya been?!!
(baby) Oh yeah, here he comes! WOOHOO!
Not only did the child leap, he knew.
How did he know that?
WHO WAS JOHN????

And when John saw him (the Light), John said.... it is good. Behold the Light which taketh away the sin of the world.

Gen 1:4
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Who is John? which declared the light and saw that it was good?

 

[Heart2Soul]

Don't see how the spiritual mind vs carnal mind can be addressed without addressing the "Will of the Father" The spiritual mind strives to do the will of the Father .. the Carnal mind does not.

That's what I have already stated.

 

[kcnalp]

and neither do you ... but you claim otherwise .. that is the difference.

I say let them live. Why does that bother you so much?

 

[kcnalp]

If you wish to believe that nasty dictators such as Hitler were sent to us by God for our own benefit .. and that we should not rebel against such evil men because they are God's emissaries for our own Good .. you are welcome to your Sheeple ideology.

If you wish to be thankful to God for sending Hitler to gas all those Jews - you are welcome to this belief.

I didn't say "for our own benefit". When people call the Bible lies and errors and constantly trash it God will deal with them eventually.
Hebrews 10:30-31 (NKJV)
30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people."
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Your claim that I am trashing the Bible in saying this is false. What I am trashing is your literalist perspective. One need not believe that every sentence from Paul's hand was inspired to believe in the Bible.

"Literalist perspective" = Bible believers.

Paul was very smart in writing this passage - and may well have saved Christianity by doing so - as this passage would please Ceasar greatly.
That does not mean that this passage was inspired by God .. it was a necessity at the time.

This does not trash the Bible - but uplifts it by resolving an awful passage - one that made sense in the moment - but makes no sense when applied generally .. as the literalist is forced to do - thus trashing the Bible.
So as it turns out .. it is you that is trashing the Bible - by taking Paul's words out of context .. and not me. I am not even trashing Paul - as I think his decision was a good one at the time - but his words do not apply to all time.

Yeah, that's what I have been saying. When you pick the parts you like you make up your own personal God, who is not God of the Bible Who drowned all but 8 "making an example" of them.

Lastly - Jesus was a "rebel" who rebelled against authority - and continually encourages his followers to rebel against authority.

So you can take Paul's words over my words ... but, you are also taking Paul's words over the teachings of Jesus.

Paul got his doctrines directly from Jesus. Where are you getting yours? You just make them up? Everyone will learn to fear God. Now or in Hell, but they will learn.

 

[Taken]

The conscious mind develops fully by

First...a couple of verses to consider.

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
— Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)

“And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
— 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV)

Soul=emotional and psychological aspects of our being
Spirit=Life and was put in us by God and will return to Him when we die.
Body=all DNA....which makes up the whole anatomy and is mainly geared to react to the physical senses of taste, touch, smell, sight and hearing.

Why does God use a sword to separate the soul and spirit?

Our body was Created with; the Physical eyes, ears, nose, skin, mouth.

Our living soul "MADE" /caused to function;
SeeING- HearING- smellING- feelING-SpeakING-

Those -ING things cause / reactions / Emotions / to our physical body AND Living souls.

Those "ING" things CONTINUE functioning IN the Living soul....when the Body Dies...and the Living Soul Departs the Body.
• Saved souls- go to Heaven..
SEE, HEAR, SMELL, FEEL, SPEAK.
• Unsaved souls- go to Hell...also
SEE, HEAR, SMELL, FEEL, SPEAK.

All Body's of ALIVE men have a living soul,
LIFE in that Soul, Via Gods Breath.
^ it matters not, if a man had heard of God, of Christ Jesus, Believes, Doesn't Believe...
If they are a alive Body, they have a Living soul in them.

A man with a Born Again Spirit- Has Gods Life in their (reborn) spirit, Via Gods Spirit <--- THAT only Applies TO a man WHO has a Saved Living soul.
God does NOT rebirth a spirit of man, who's soul is NOT Saved.
A man with a reborn spirit, has "direct access" TO God through prayer. No intercessory needed. That man is also given different/more blessings...and understanding, that an unsaved man.

The SWORD...
The Sword IS the Word of God.
Dividing-
Piercing asunder---Soul & spirit
Piercing -- Bone & Morrow

It is telling you- The "places" so to speak...
When you receive the Word of God...
What part of you is greatly Affected...
For example...

...Marrow is where Blood travels and feeds your bones. (Blood IS the LIFE of the Body)...

• "God Loves you"-
Bone- body- eh ok, God loves me
Marrow- body LIFE- wow, God loves ME!
Soul- senses/Emotion- God LOVES ME!!!
Spirit- truth-Thank you God, FOR LOVING ME!

Your Body, your Body's Life, your Living Soul, your spirit...are All different things. The Hear the exact same words but respond differently.
They don't respond the same...

Even you can tell how someone responds to you...eh thanks...or...oh how wonderfully thoughtful, thank you so much!

Gods listens too.
We talk to God via prayer, spiritual communication...
Ever hear a person....blah, blah, blah, quick fast (like hurry up, the ball games on) ?
And a person giving a True thoughtful from the heart thankful prayer?

Ya, God knows the source of a man's prayer.
Body itching to watch TV, prayer an interruption ...
Or from the Heart, spirit, in awe and thankfulness ...
Or saying the right words, but giggling, playing footsies under the table...?

Don't be like a heathen, repeating the same prayer over and over without Earnest spirit...
Or praying, so onlookers are "impressed".

God wants spirit filled genuine communication, and knows when it is or isn't.
That is my understanding

Glory to God,
Taken