Is it biblical for Jesus' followers to approve of the military practice?

[meshak]

Well, I suggest that you quit bashing the Catholic Church.....because that is not a very Christian thing to do.....now is it? Bashing another Christian is very unChristian. Do you see me going around bashing your religion??

As for the biblical verse.....Jesus said to bring A sword. He did not tell His Apostles to bring more than one sword....so yes, that is why Jesus said "It is enough." A person does not need two weapons for self-defense. You only need one. Therefore, because Christ told His Apostles to bring a sword.....then Christ does approve of "self-defense." Otherwise, why instruct His Apostles to bring a sword.



It does not matter if the Apostles killed anyone or not in self-defense. The FACT is.....and it is stated in the Bible......that Christ TOLD His Apostles to bring a sword. The FACT that Christ told them this is evidence showing that Christ believes in self-defense. Do you have any other reason why Christ told His Apostles to bring a sword??

Did He mean to fight against their enemy physically? You cannot find any prove of your claim because Jesus and His disciples did not kill anyone even for self defense, they were killed instead..

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. Why dont you examine what RCC, your mother church, did to their enemy. When are you going to learn? Jesus' followers are supposed be persecuted, not persecutors.

Jesus says if you follow Him you will be persecuted.

 

[Selene]

Did He mean to fight against their enemy physically? You cannot find any prove of your claim because Jesus and His disciples did not kill anyone even for self defense, they were killed instead..

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. Why dont you examine what RCC, your mother church, did to their enemy. When are you going to learn? Jesus' followers are supposed be persecuted, not persecutors.

Jesus says if you follow Him you will be persecuted.

Again, the FACT shows that Christ DID tell His Apostles to bring a sword. This FACT is EVIDENCE that Christ believed in self-defense. Otherwise, what other reason did He have for telling His Apostles to bring a sword?? Whether they used the sword or not is irrelevant.

 

[meshak]

Again, the FACT shows that Christ DID tell His Apostles to bring a sword. This FACT is EVIDENCE that Christ believed in self-defense. Otherwise, what other reason did He have for telling His Apostles to bring a sword?? Whether they used the sword or not is irrelevant.

You dont have any proof that you are right with your interpretation. It is so out of context with the rest of Jesus' position of non-violent nature.

 

[Selene]

You dont have any proof that you are right with your interpretation. It is so out of context with the rest of Jesus' position of non-violent nature.

Then let's hear your interpretation of why Christ told His Apostles to get a sword. And while you're at it, try explaining the Book of Revelation when God sent His angels to battle against Satan when Satan and his army tried to invade God's Kingdom.

Revelations 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

 

[meshak]

Then let's hear your interpretation of why Christ told His Apostles to get a sword. And while your at it, try explaining the Book of Revelation when God sent His angels to battle against Satan when Satan and his army tried to invade God's Kingdom.

Revelations 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

I dont know why Jesus told them to buy a sward. It could mean Jesus' word because sword is word in Jesus' term.

What about Michael? Are you using this verse to justify your deceptive practice?

Jesus' followers are supposed to use the word to practice godly to the world.

 

[Selene]

I dont know why Jesus told them to buy a sward. It could mean Jesus' word because sword is word in Jesus' term.

What about Michael? Are you using this verse to justify your deceptive practice?

Jesus' followers are supposed to use the word to practice godly to the world.

Well, if you don't have an interpretation because you don't know.....then why put down the person who has a reasonable interpretation. Self-defense is not persecution. St. Peter was wrong for cutting off the ear of the servant of the high priest. That was NOT self-defense. Why? Because the servant of the high priest was not attacking anyone. He was not a threat to the Apostle Peter nor to Jesus. They came to arrest Jesus.

As for Michael, as you can see, even God believes that when an invader comes in, it is allowable to drive the invader out by force. That is self-defense.

 

[meshak]

Well, if you don't have an interpretation because you don't know.....then why put down the person who has a reasonable interpretation. Self-defense is not persecution. St. Peter was wrong for cutting off the ear of the servant of the high priest. That was NOT self-defense. Why? Because the servant of the high priest was not attacking anyone. He was not a threat to the Apostle Peter nor to Jesus. They came to arrest Jesus.

As for Michael, as you can see, even God believes that when an invader comes in, it is allowable to drive the invader out by force. That is self-defense.

You dont have any answer to Jesus' sword either. so you are not doing such good job to legit your claim of approving the violent faith.

God says vengeance is Mine, not yours, lady.

You are a woman and so militant, sheesh.

I am Jesus' follower because He is prince of peace and I am proud of my Lord.

 

[Selene]

You dont have any answer to Jesus' sword either. so you are not doing such good job to legit your claim of approving the violent faith.

God says vengeance is Mine, not yours, lady.

You are a woman and so militant, sheesh.

I am Jesus' follower because He is prince of peace and I am proud of my Lord.

I did give my answer. I said that Christ told His Apostles to carry a sword because He believes in self-defense. Self-defense is not violent. Self- defense is not persecution and self-defense is not violent. Clearly, you don't understand what self-defense means.

 

[Axehead]

If you don't stop at Luke 22:36 and continue on with the conversation you will understand what Jesus' point was.

Luke 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me,

*****And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.***** (Isa 53:12)

Luke 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Two swords were not nearly enough for any kind of reasonable defense don't you think? However, two swords were more than enough for Jesus to be "reckoned among the transgressors", and fulfill prophecy. And Peter, became the "transgressor" when he used his sword to cut off the servant of the high priest's ear.

In another place we see that Isa 53:12 was referenced when Jesus was buried between 2 criminals. But, the Holy Spirit through Luke obviously wanted that also noted when Jesus said 2 swords are enough.

When you take the whole counsel of God you get a fuller picture of what is happening, the "whys" and the "wherefores" become clearer.

This is why Jesus said get some swords and then stopped them at two. Did He not say that He could call 12 legions of angels to rescue Him? Then what was up with the swords? To fulfill scripture about Him from Isa 53:12.

You are drawing your own conclusions that Jesus approved and commanded self-defense when that is not what the context show in Luke 22:36-38.

Sorry, but your interpretation is fallacious. But, your interpretation does serve your churches' doctrine.

If Jesus believes in self-defense why did he say "pray for those that persecute you" rather than defend yourselves against those who persecute you? Why did He say, "Love your enemies".

 

[Selene]

If you don't stop at Luke 22:36 and continue on with the conversation you will understand what Jesus' point was.

Luke 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me,

*****And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.***** (Isa 53:12)

Luke 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Two swords were not nearly enough for any kind of reasonable defense don't you think? However, two swords were more than enough for Jesus to be "reckoned among the transgressors", and fulfill prophecy. And Peter, became the "transgressor" when he used his sword to cut off the servant of the high priest's ear.

In another place we see that Isa 53:12 was referenced when Jesus was buried between 2 criminals. But, the Holy Spirit through Luke obviously wanted that also noted when Jesus said 2 swords are enough.

When you take the whole counsel of God you get a fuller picture of what is happening, the "whys" and the "wherefores" become clearer.

This is why Jesus said get some swords and then stopped them at two. Did He not say that He could call 12 legions of angels to rescue Him? Then what was up with the swords? To fulfill scripture about Him from Isa 53:12.

You are drawing your own conclusions that Jesus approved and commanded self-defense when that is not what the context show in Luke 22:36-38.

Sorry, but your interpretation is fallacious. But, your interpretation does serve your churches' doctrine.

If Jesus believes in self-defense why did he say "pray for those that persecute you" rather than defend yourselves against those who persecute you? Why did He say, "Love your enemies".

Peter became the transgressor because he used the sword in the wrong way. Christ was not telling the Apostles to get a sword so they could become the transgressors. Christ told them to get a sword.

After that he said this: It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors' [fn]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." In this statement, He was referring to Himself. He was telling the Apostles that he was treated as a transgressor (a criminal), but nevertheless, it must be fulfilled in Him.

Praying for those who persecute us is the right thing to do. People who persecute us does not necessarily mean that they are threatening our life. Those who persecute could be people who put you down, bully you, threaten you, call you bad names, etc...but they don't kill you. A person who intentionally goes out to murder you is a different story. These are people who don't bully you, but instead want to end your life. When Christ allowed His Apostles to carry a sword, He is giving them the right to use the sword in self-defense.

When Christ said "It is enough".....that does not mean "get rid of the swords." When He said "It is enough" He was referring to the number of swords that the disciples was showing Him. In other words, He is saying "two swords is enough."

 

[meshak]

Peter became the transgressor because he used the sword in the wrong way. Christ was not telling the Apostles to get a sword so they could become the transgressors. Christ told them to get a sword.

After that he said this: It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors' [fn]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." In this statement, He was referring to Himself. He was telling the Apostles that he was treated as a transgressor (a criminal), but nevertheless, it must be fulfilled in Him.

Praying for those who persecute us is the right thing to do. People who persecute us does not necessarily mean that they are threatening our life. Those who persecute could be people who put you down, bully you, threaten you, call you bad names, etc...but they don't kill you. A person who intentionally goes out to murder you is a different story. These are people who don't bully you, but instead want to end your life. When Christ allowed His Apostles to carry a sword, He is giving them the right to use the sword in self-defense.

When Christ said "It is enough".....that does not mean "get rid of the swords." When He said "It is enough" He was referring to the number of swords that the disciples was showing Him. In other words, He is saying "two swords is enough."

You claim to be Jesus' servants, yet you practice against His simple word. What kind of servant are you?

Jesus says His followers are not of this world, Why do you behave like the rest of the world, approving to kill your enemy? You guys are no different from the hostile world with your fruit.

I did give my answer. I said that Christ told His Apostles to carry a sword because He believes in self-defense. Self-defense is not violent. Self- defense is not persecution and self-defense is not violent. Clearly, you don't understand what self-defense means.

Why cannot you find any prove that they defended themselves? They got killed. No one defended themselves and killed anyone.

Your claims are full of holes. You should fight to defend Jesus' peaceful messages instead of being militant for your organization.

 

[aspen]

the longer i live the more i move toward pacifism.

 

[Selene]

You claim to be Jesus' servants, yet you practice against His simple word. What kind of servant are you?

Jesus says His followers are not of this world, Why do you behave like the rest of the world, approving to kill your enemy? You guys are no different from the hostile world with your fruit.

Didn't Jesus tell His Apostles to carry a sword? Yes. And when His disciples showed Him two swords, did He say to get rid of it? No.

Did the Angel Michael went to war against Satan and his army when they invaded God's kingdom? Yes. Does this make Michael violent? No. Satan was the one who was being violent. He was the invader. Michael was the defender.

 

[meshak]

the longer i live the more i move toward pacifism.

Bless you brother.

Didn't Jesus tell His Apostles to carry a sword? Yes. And when His disciples showed Him two swords, did He say to get rid of it? No.

Did the Angel Michael went to war against Satan and his army when they invaded God's kingdom? Yes. Does this make Michael violent? No. Satan was the one who was being violent. He was the invader. Michael was the defender.

It is refuted over and over, get over it.

You should not use book of revelation to justify you militant position. God's army is different from worldly army, Let God's army to fight against satan and his helpers.

Jesus was sent to give us good example to teach us how to serve God. Jesus tells us to be faithful unto death; we should not kill anyone and should be killed if we are face to hostile situation. Jesus and His disciples got killed, why should we fight to kill anyone? Dont bother answering this question. this question is just rhetorical, you should know that..

 

[Selene]

Bless you brother.


It is refuted over and over, get over it.

You should not use book of revelation to justify you militant position. God's army is different from worldly army, Let God's army to fight against satan and his helpers.

Jesus was sent to give us good example to teach us how to serve God. Jesus tells us to be faithful unto death; we should not kill anyone and should be killed if we are face to hostile situation. Jesus and His disciples got killed, why should we fight to kill anyone? Dont bother answering this question. this question is just rhetorical, you should know that..

Jesus was sent to give us a good example?? You mean like when Jesus told His disciples to carry a sword. Those were Jesus' words. He DID tell His Apostles to carry a sword.

Meshak, if a man comes into a person's home and raped his wife, I assume that you expect the man to simply stand there and watch his wife being raped?

 

[meshak]

Jesus was sent to give us a good example?? You mean like when Jesus told His disciples to carry a sword. Those were Jesus' words. He DID tell His Apostles to carry a sword.

Meshak, if a man comes into a person's home and raped his wife, I assume that you expect the man to simply stand there and watch his wife being raped?

Nope, I will not just stand there to watch it. I will protect him or her with all my might without resorting to kill anyone. I may be killed with the victims but I will not kill anyone.

It is so strange that you fight against the homosexuals but you dont fight against militant faith. Isnt that because it is not majority correct practice? Your motives are so obvious, lady.

Reading Jesus' messages, you still cannot see the heart of Jesus' teachings. just amazing.

Jesus expects His followers to aim for perfection, not just politically correct or majority approved practices..

Jesus says to make every effort to inter into narrow door. Many try to inter but not to make it.

 

[Selene]

Nope, I will not just stand there to watch it. I will protect him or her with all my might without resorting to kill anyone. I may be killed with the victims but I will not kill anyone.

It is so strange that you fight against the homosexuals but you dont fight against militant faith. Isnt that because it is not majority correct practice? Your motives are so obvious, lady.

Reading Jesus' messages, you still cannot see the heart of Jesus' teachings. just amazing.

Jesus expects His followers to aim for perfection, not just politically correct or majority approved practices..

Jesus says to make every effort to inter into narrow door. Many try to inter but not to make it.

How do you protect anyone when you cannot defend anyone?? To you, self-defense is considered violent and persecution, so how do you propose to protect a woman who is going to be raped? Are you going to sit down with the rapist and have a conversation with him??

You even say not to use the Book of Revelations. Didn't you know that the Angel Michael was protecting God's kingdom.....and he protected God's kingdom by being a defender waging war against invaders.

 

[meshak]

How do you protect anyone when you cannot defend anyone?? To you, self-defense is considered violent and persecution, so how do you propose to protect a woman who is going to be raped? Are you going to sit down with the rapist and have a conversation with him??

You even say not to use the Book of Revelations. Didn't you know that the Angel Michael was protecting God's kingdom.....and he protected God's kingdom by being a defender waging war against invaders.

Jesus did not defend Himself and got killed instead. Why do you disrespect His good example?
What you are doing is persecuting Jesus all over with your disobedient and militant faith. You are free to justify your disrespectful faith all you want. Dont expect His true followers to accommodate you.

Like I said, God's army is not the same as worldly army. You need to be humble to trust Jesus' word.

God says vengeance it Mine.

 

[Selene]

Jesus did not defend Himself and got killed instead. Why do you disrespect His good example?
What you are doing is persecuting Jesus all over with your disobedient and militant faith. You are free to justify your disrespectful faith all you want. Dont expect His true followers to accommodate you.

Like I said, God's army is not the same as worldly army. You need to be humble to trust Jesus' word.

God says vengeance it Mine.

Yes, God says vengence is his, but the righteous do not seek vengence. They seek justice. And this is why God established governments so that those who do wrong can be punished.

1 Peter 2:13=14 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by Him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

So you see, God also sent people to punish those who do wrong. So, why do you judge these people whom God sent to punish wrongdoers??

 

[meshak]

Yes, God says vengence is his, but the righteous do not seek vengence. They seek justice. And this is why God established governments so that those who do wrong can be punished.

1 Peter 2:13=14 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by Him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

So you see, God also sent people to punish those who do wrong. So, why do you judge these people whom God sent to punish wrongdoers??

You continually twist and pervert Jesus' love messages. so sad.