Is it Necessary to Keep the Law?

[Hobie]

Is it important to God that Christians keep the Law, as this is a question which many false ideas and beliefs have created confusion for many Christians. Now, if the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law? Paul hits on this in Romans 6..

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? And we see his answer, 'God forbid.' especially if we ' that are dead to sin'. And if we look we find many ways that Christians try to invent their own definitions which allow or condone lawbreaking. The Bible says sin is violating the Ten Commandments, the law which has been described as done away with or abolished or not applying to Christians. Is this true or are the moral precepts just as needed today as they were when God wrote them on the tables of stone. If you think about it, nothing has happened to make them less binding than they were when God gave them. In fact, scripture shows that Jesus came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual meaning and application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined. From Christ's perfect life of obedience, we can see the spiritual essence of keeping the law which many wouldn't recognize, nor made possible apart from Him.

Even though the law points out sin, it has no power to save from sin. There is no justifying, cleansing grace in it. All the works of all the laws would not be sufficient to save a single soul, for the simple reason that we are saved by grace through faith, as a free gift.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying. It was made to show us the 'knowledge of sin' and our need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing, Jesus Christ. And it also tells us...
James 1:23-25
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[Bob Estey]

Is it important to God that Christians keep the Law, as this is a question which many false ideas and beliefs have created confusion for many Christians. Now, if the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law? Paul hits on this in Romans 6..

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? And we see his answer, 'God forbid.' especially if we ' that are dead to sin'. And if we look we find many ways that Christians try to invent their own definitions which allow or condone lawbreaking. The Bible says sin is violating the Ten Commandments, the law which has been described as done away with or abolished or not applying to Christians. Is this true or are the moral precepts just as needed today as they were when God wrote them on the tables of stone. If you think about it, nothing has happened to make them less binding than they were when God gave them. In fact, scripture shows that Jesus came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual meaning and application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined. From Christ's perfect life of obedience, we can see the spiritual essence of keeping the law which many wouldn't recognize, nor made possible apart from Him.

Even though the law points out sin, it has no power to save from sin. There is no justifying, cleansing grace in it. All the works of all the laws would not be sufficient to save a single soul, for the simple reason that we are saved by grace through faith, as a free gift.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying. It was made to show us the 'knowledge of sin' and our need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing, Jesus Christ. And it also tells us...
James 1:23-25
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The thing about obeying the Ten Commandments is that if you don't, you get yourself into trouble. For instance, if I rob a bank, I go to prison for a long time.

 

[Hobie]

The thing about obeying the Ten Commandments is that if you don't, you get yourself into trouble. For instance, if I rob a bank, I go to prison for a long time.

So why does God give it?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Is it Necessary to Keep the Law?

No, if one tries to be justified by keeping the Law of Moses they because like the Galatians and are fallen from Grace and are no longer saved.... they have taken the satan exit off of the Highway to Heaven and have merged on to the highway to hell.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[RedFan]

No, if one tries to be justified by keeping the Law of Moses they because like the Galatians and are fallen from Grace and are no longer saved.... they have taken the satan exit off of the Highway to Heaven and have merged on to the highway to hell.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Gal. 3:11 tells us that justification does not come from the Law, and that life comes only from faith (quoting Hab. 2:4). But then Gal. 3:12 quotes Lev. 18:5, perhaps the leading OT passage suggesting that keeping the Law is what leads to life. (One finds this notion echoed in Ezek. 20:11, Prov. 19:16, Psalms of Solomon 14:1-5, Philo’s Preliminary Studies 86-87, even Matt. 19:16-17.) This strikes me as at worst contradictory, and at best a poor choice of Scripture in support of what I take to be Paul’s goal: dissuading the Galatians from turning to the Law instead of to faith for their salvation. If that were my agenda, Lev. 18:5 is the last verse I would quote!

Granted, Galatians never explicitly declares that nobody can keep the Law perfectly – perhaps because the “blessing” part of Deut. 11:26 makes that a questionable conclusion (see also Ps. 18:20-24), or perhaps because Paul himself elsewhere claimed to be “blameless” under the Law, Phil. 3:6 – but isn’t that exactly what he wants the “foolish Galatians” to infer? And, doesn’t his quote from Leviticus undercut him here?

The issue is simple to frame: is salvation available under the Law? Galatians, no less than Romans, has become something of a proof text for millions of Christians to answer No. But a close reading of Galatians does not actually support that answer. Rather, it supports “Don’t choose to play by those Rules, you foolish Galatians; for once you sign up for that, you’ll almost certainly fail to end up with the required perfect score – and thanks to Calvary, there is now an easier way, so why take the chance?”

There is a common-sense distinction between the Law’s innate inability to save, and mankind’s innate inability to keep the Law sufficiently to be saved (a la Rom. 2:1 – 3:20). On my reading, Galatians at best supports only the latter, although Christians everywhere seem to assume it supports the former. I read Gal. 3:12 – and its analogue, Rom. 10:5 – to mean that salvation is available under the Law, provided one keeps it perfectly. And difficult though that is, it is not an impossible task. (Who would be so bold as to declare that Luke 1:6 is a lie?)

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No, we need to accept what the Lord says in Galatians 5:4

Many of the truths we see in the old testament are God's moral law... not the actual Law of Moses.

The moral law of God was arou8nd before the Law of Moses... and in the New Covenant those being led by the Holy Spirit if Jesus Christ... are being led to keep God's moral law.

Anyone trusting in any part of the Law of Moses for justification...Jesus has is become of no effect unto to them and they have fallen from grace as in, NO longer saved.

Galatians 5:4 is one of the numerous ways we know that eternal security, aka once saved always saved, is false doctrine.

 

[Bob Estey]

So why does God give it?

Give what?

 

[Hobie]

No, we need to accept what the Lord says in Galatians 5:4

Many of the truths we see in the old testament are God's moral law... not the actual Law of Moses.

The moral law of God was arou8nd before the Law of Moses... and in the New Covenant those being led by the Holy Spirit if Jesus Christ... are being led to keep God's moral law.

Anyone trusting in any part of the Law of Moses for justification...Jesus has is become of no effect unto to them and they have fallen from grace as in, NO longer saved.

Galatians 5:4 is one of the numerous ways we know that eternal security, aka once saved always saved, is false doctrine.

So how do you see what is given in Romans 7...

The Law and Sin​

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

 

[bro.tan]

Is it important to God that Christians keep the Law, as this is a question which many false ideas and beliefs have created confusion for many Christians. Now, if the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law? Paul hits on this in Romans 6..

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? And we see his answer, 'God forbid.' especially if we ' that are dead to sin'. And if we look we find many ways that Christians try to invent their own definitions which allow or condone lawbreaking. The Bible says sin is violating the Ten Commandments, the law which has been described as done away with or abolished or not applying to Christians. Is this true or are the moral precepts just as needed today as they were when God wrote them on the tables of stone. If you think about it, nothing has happened to make them less binding than they were when God gave them. In fact, scripture shows that Jesus came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual meaning and application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined. From Christ's perfect life of obedience, we can see the spiritual essence of keeping the law which many wouldn't recognize, nor made possible apart from Him.

Even though the law points out sin, it has no power to save from sin. There is no justifying, cleansing grace in it. All the works of all the laws would not be sufficient to save a single soul, for the simple reason that we are saved by grace through faith, as a free gift.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying. It was made to show us the 'knowledge of sin' and our need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing, Jesus Christ. And it also tells us...
James 1:23-25
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

The problem with trying to explain this particular topic is to understand that Paul talks about two different laws. For example in one verse Paul says in (Rom. 3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sights for by the law is the knowledge of sin. The deeds of the law is referring to the animal sacrificial laws, all those sacrifices can never remove sins, so they could never be justified. This is true because the blood of Jesus can only justify us. The animal sacrificial laws was added because people continue to sin, and the wages of sin bring for death. So instead of God killing people every time they sin, the Lord gave Moses a law to use, animals. So by the other law (Ten Commandments, statutes and Judgement) is the knowledge of sin. Now it's written in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.


Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So how do you see what is given in Romans 7

Romans 7 man... is not a Christian.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Under the New Covenant, we live under the Law of Christ.... not the L:aw of Moses

 

[Hobie]

God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

The problem with trying to explain this particular topic is to understand that Paul talks about two different laws. For example in one verse Paul says in (Rom. 3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sights for by the law is the knowledge of sin. The deeds of the law is referring to the animal sacrificial laws, all those sacrifices can never remove sins, so they could never be justified. This is true because the blood of Jesus can only justify us. The animal sacrificial laws was added because people continue to sin, and the wages of sin bring for death. So instead of God killing people every time they sin, the Lord gave Moses a law to use, animals. So by the other law (Ten Commandments, statutes and Judgement) is the knowledge of sin. Now it's written in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.


Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law.

Its hard to grasp the points Paul makes as he was trained very highly versus Peter, so I wouldnt say Peter "warned' us of Pauls writing but that the way he said it was not simple or easy to understand for the most part.

 

[neospoiama]

Is it important to God that Christians keep the Law, as this is a question which many false ideas and beliefs have created confusion for many Christians. Now, if the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law? Paul hits on this in Romans 6..

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? And we see his answer, 'God forbid.' especially if we ' that are dead to sin'. And if we look we find many ways that Christians try to invent their own definitions which allow or condone lawbreaking. The Bible says sin is violating the Ten Commandments, the law which has been described as done away with or abolished or not applying to Christians. Is this true or are the moral precepts just as needed today as they were when God wrote them on the tables of stone. If you think about it, nothing has happened to make them less binding than they were when God gave them. In fact, scripture shows that Jesus came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual meaning and application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined. From Christ's perfect life of obedience, we can see the spiritual essence of keeping the law which many wouldn't recognize, nor made possible apart from Him.

Even though the law points out sin, it has no power to save from sin. There is no justifying, cleansing grace in it. All the works of all the laws would not be sufficient to save a single soul, for the simple reason that we are saved by grace through faith, as a free gift.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying. It was made to show us the 'knowledge of sin' and our need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing, Jesus Christ. And it also tells us...
James 1:23-25
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Hobie,

Agreed. Grace does not give us license to sin. Paul could not be more clear about this, as you point out from Romans 6.

We can go further in Romans 6. There Paul makes it quite clear that Christians have died with Christ and been raised to new life in Him (vrs. 4). The Spirit unites us with Christ in His death and resurrection. This enables us to live resurrection life now as our "old self" has been crucified with Christ. The purpose of this is that we should no longer be slaves to sin (vrs. 6), because "...he who had died is freed from sin." (vr.s 7). We must not let sin reign in their mortal bodies because they are "dead to sin and alive to God." The choices we make, by the power that the Spirit provides, are to consider ourselves to be dead to sin and alive to God and to end the reign of sin in our lives (vrs 12-14).

Our relationship to the Law comes in in verse 14. There Paul says, "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace." As you have pointed out, the law points out sin; it actually empowers sin in the life of a person (Romans 7:7-8). Because Christians are not under law but under grace, the power of sin over us has been broken. Do we still sin? Yes, but God has begun a good work in us and, with our cooperation and by His power, we can (and indeed we must) become more and more free from sin.

The reality is that what God does for us in Christ has enabled us to be dead to sin and alive to Him, freeing us from being under the power of law to be be obedient under the power of His grace. Grace is not license; grace is the power to live for God and to grow in holiness.

How then do we relate to the Law? Once again, Paul could not be more clear. Romans 8:1-4, "1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. "

Those who claim Christ must "walk according to the Spirit" (Explained in Romans 8:5-13). And the purpose of all of this, being crucified with Christ, being raised spiritually with Him, being dead to sin and alive to God, being under grace and not under law, walking by the spirit, putting to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit (Romans 8:12-13); the purpose of all of that is so that we, Christians, may fulfill the requirements of the Law.

We are free from the power of the Law (through death and resurrection with Jesus) so that we may be empowered to keep the Law and thus be saved.

Blessings!

 

[DJT_47]

Is it important to God that Christians keep the Law, as this is a question which many false ideas and beliefs have created confusion for many Christians. Now, if the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law? Paul hits on this in Romans 6..

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? And we see his answer, 'God forbid.' especially if we ' that are dead to sin'. And if we look we find many ways that Christians try to invent their own definitions which allow or condone lawbreaking. The Bible says sin is violating the Ten Commandments, the law which has been described as done away with or abolished or not applying to Christians. Is this true or are the moral precepts just as needed today as they were when God wrote them on the tables of stone. If you think about it, nothing has happened to make them less binding than they were when God gave them. In fact, scripture shows that Jesus came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual meaning and application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined. From Christ's perfect life of obedience, we can see the spiritual essence of keeping the law which many wouldn't recognize, nor made possible apart from Him.

Even though the law points out sin, it has no power to save from sin. There is no justifying, cleansing grace in it. All the works of all the laws would not be sufficient to save a single soul, for the simple reason that we are saved by grace through faith, as a free gift.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying. It was made to show us the 'knowledge of sin' and our need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing, Jesus Christ. And it also tells us...
James 1:23-25
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The law couldn't be kept by the Jews hence the new covenant, so why should it be raised as a question now as to whether or not we should keep it or if it's necessary??

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The law couldn't be kept by the Jews hence the new covenant, so why should it be raised as a question now as to whether or not we should keep it or if it's necessary??

Well you know the Saturday peoples demand that if one wants to get to Heaven they must keep the parts of the law that they say you have to keep, otherwise you won't go to Heaven and will lose your salvation

 

[Wick Stick]

I am somewhere in the middle...

The New Covenant still requires the Law. God defines the New Covenant in terms of "putting the Law in their inward parts" or hearts. That requires one to know the Law.

But the question here seems to bely the wrong mindset... we don't KEEP the Law by following the letter of what is written or enforcing the rules one against another.

The law-in-our-hearts requires more of us than knowing the legality of things. It requires us to understand the intent behind each statute. We must THINK like God, AGREE with God, CONFESS the logic behind the laws.

The Law is only good when we use it lawfully - by upholding the original intent of the rules. If we use the letter of the Law to subvert that intent, we make the Law of no-effect or worse, a burden.

 

[BarneyFife]

Well you know the Saturday peoples demand that if one wants to get to Heaven they must keep the parts of the law that they say you have to keep, otherwise you won't go to Heaven and will lose your salvation View attachment 43163

Who are "the Saturday peoples?"

And where's the proof that they "demand" things of anyone?

I don't care if people demand things of me on Internet forums because they can't make me do anything and if I don't want to hear their demands I can put them on the ignore list or log off because I put away childish things.

.

 

[MatthewG]

Nope. Jesus nailed to the cross.
It’s now Gods spirit who writes his laws on the hearts and minds of those who are his. It’s only Jesus by the Spirit of Christ in you that performs the good. Never the flesh; and that flesh nailed to a cross. All people have weakness especially the ones who hide them well. Jesus works through people who acknowledge this in search and in faith and asking the Father for help by the strength of the Holy Spirit which brings forth newness of life to overcome the challenges though weakness exist in us all, and they come around back sometimes.

There is no Law held against Yeshuans, or followers of Yeshua, or Christians. Christians are those who express Gods love through Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Soyeong]

No, if one tries to be justified by keeping the Law of Moses they because like the Galatians and are fallen from Grace and are no longer saved.... they have taken the satan exit off of the Highway to Heaven and have merged on to the highway to hell.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

These are two separate issues:

1.) Whether it is necessary to keep God's law in order to earn our justification as the result.

2.) Whether it is necessary to keep God's law.

While there are many verses like Romans 4:1-5 that deny #1, there are many verses like Matthew 7:21 that support #2, where Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them.

No, we need to accept what the Lord says in Galatians 5:4

Many of the truths we see in the old testament are God's moral law... not the actual Law of Moses.

The moral law of God was arou8nd before the Law of Moses... and in the New Covenant those being led by the Holy Spirit if Jesus Christ... are being led to keep God's moral law.

Anyone trusting in any part of the Law of Moses for justification...Jesus has is become of no effect unto to them and they have fallen from grace as in, NO longer saved.

Galatians 5:4 is one of the numerous ways we know that eternal security, aka once saved always saved, is false doctrine.

Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral law. Legislators give laws according to what they think ought to be done, so for you to claim that some of God's laws are not moral laws is to claim that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when he gave those laws, and to therefore claim to have greater moral knowledge than God. There would be no point in God giving laws than He didn't think ought to be obeyed.

The New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33) and involves God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and send His Spirit to lead us to obey the Torah.

 

[neospoiama]

These are two separate issues.

1.) Whether it is necessary to keep God's law in order to earn our justification as the result.

2.) Whether it is necessary to keep God's law.

While there are many verses like Romans 4:1-5 that deny #1, there are many verses like Matthew 7:21 that support #2, where Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them.

Most definitely agree that these are the key issues.

As for number 1 - We cannot (and clearly must not try to) keep the Law in order to justify ourselves. That is a fatal mistake, as many passages (Galatians 5:4 et. al.) point out. Romans 3:20 seems plain enough. "...because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." Nas95. Working to save myself by keeping the Law in my own power is damning.

As for number 2 - I t is necessary for Christians to keep the law. From Romans 8:12 we know that are under obligation not to live according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. The word "obligation" in 8:12 is striking to me. We are absolutely required to (more literally are "debtors to") live (walk) according to the Spirit. If we live (walk) according to the flesh we are about to die (or "we must die," depending on the translation); this is to suffer eternal loss. Rather, we are under obligation to put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit so we can live eternally (Romans 8:13 - how that is done is spelled out in Romans 6).

And to walk according to the Spirit is to fulfill the righteous requirement of the law (Romans 8:4).

So yes, we can not earn our justification by keeping the Law. And yes, we are required to keep the law in order to be saved. The difference between the two is God's grace which, through the Spirit, enables us to fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law.

This is only possible, as you point out, because "The New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33) and involves God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and send His Spirit to lead us to obey the Torah." We are absolutely dependent on God to enable us fulfill His requirements and keep His Law and thus be saved. This is all by grace through faith from a regenerated heart.

Blessings!

 

[Soyeong]

These are two separate issues.

Most definitely agree that these are the key issues.

As for number 1 - We cannot (and clearly must not try to) keep the Law in order to justify ourselves. That is a fatal mistake, as many passages (Galatians 5:4 et. al.) point out. Romans 3:20 seems plain enough. "...because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." Nas95. Working to save myself by keeping the Law in my own power is damning.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to God, so part of the reason why Galatians is the most misunderstood book in the Bible is the incorrect assumption that that phrase refers to the Law of God. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted the law of works with the law of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said that our faith upholds the Law of God, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to rely on God is by obediently relying on His instructions while, it is contradictory for someone to think that we should rely on God for salvation instead of relying on His instructions, and to interpret Galatians 3:10-12 as saying that the Law of God is untrustworthy/not of faith instead of works of the law is to deny the trustworthiness/faithfulness of the Lawgiver. It is also contradictory for someone to think that we are relying on ourselves by relying on God's instructions. The significance of being a doer of God's instructions is not that it is part of what we are required to have done first in order to earn our justification as the result, but that we are expressing our faith and it is by that faith that we are justified.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, so it would be absurd for someone to interpret Galatians 5:4 as warning against doing that and saying that we will be cutting off from Christ if we follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, and this is what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from it. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ's example of obedience to the Law of God, but with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey works of the law in order to become justified.

As for number 2 - I t is necessary for Christians to keep the law. From Romans 8:12 we know that are under obligation not to live according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. The word "obligation" in 8:12 is striking to me. We are absolutely required to (more literally are "debtors to") live (walk) according to the Spirit. If we live (walk) according to the flesh we are about to die (or "we must die," depending on the translation); this is to suffer eternal loss. Rather, we are under obligation to put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit so we can live eternally (Romans 8:13 - how that is done is spelled out in Romans 6).

And to walk according to the Spirit is to fulfill the righteous requirement of the law (Romans 8:4).

So yes, we can not earn our justification by keeping the Law. And yes, we are required to keep the law in order to be saved. The difference between the two is God's grace which, through the Spirit, enables us to fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law.

This is only possible, as you point out, because "The New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33) and involves God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and send His Spirit to lead us to obey the Torah." We are absolutely dependent on God to enable us fulfill His requirements and keep His Law and thus be saved. This is all by grace through faith from a regenerated heart.

Blessings!

Agree, in Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God. In Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life. In Romans 2:13, only doers of the law will be justified. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments. In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them. In Revelation 22:14, those who obeyed God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life. In Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him. So it is abundantly clear that our salvation requires us to be doers of the Torah.