Is it possible to lose salvation?

[marks]

We have a HOPE of salvation and will not know we are saved until the end.
Jesus said: Those that endure till the end will be saved.

Biblical "hope" is not wistful and uncertain as is the American English "hope".

Look again at the passage. We know, said the apostle. Do you know that when you see Jesus you will be like Him? Do you know this?

Those who have this hope (expectation based on faith) are those who purify themselves.

So again, do you know as a fact that you will be like Jesus when you see Him?

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Do you know?

Much love!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Do you not want to ACT on Jesus words like the wise man?

This makes me think of the parable where Jesus said those that build their houses on His Words are building upon the Rock and those not building their houses on His Words are building on sand and their fall will be disastrous!

 

[GodsGrace]

You keep sidestepping the heart of your claims. Your own personal obedience.

You and the other fellow both have been slandering me, which if memory serves, God commands us to speak truth to each other, so that's a fail. That is, it's sin. So there goes your obedience. Maybe that's why you keep deflecting on this point. Because you already know you are at times disobedient, but that strikes against your assertions. So you are reluctant to talk about it. I completely understand!

Much love!

Why don't you ever reply to my posts instead of worrying about my salvation?
My salvation is none of your concern.

No deflection.
I'm responding to the OP.

The OP is NOT about MY salvation.

Please post some scripture that states that we are not required to obey God...
which seems to be what you're saying by arguing with me when I state that we ARE TO OBEY GOD.

Why are you debating this?

 

[GodsGrace]

Biblical "hope" is not wistful and uncertain as is the American English "hope".

Look again at the passage. We know, said the apostle. Do you know that when you see Jesus you will be like Him? Do you know this?

Those who have this hope (expectation based on faith) are those who purify themselves.

Yes. Let's look again.

It even states that we are to PURIFY OURSELVES.
What does that mean to you?

Sounds like some of the purifying is on YOU.
God did HIS part...
now He calls on you to do YOURS.

And yes, our hope is an expectation based on faith.

What faith?
The faith that the OSAS teach
or
the faith that Jesus taught?

So purify yourself and be ready when Jesus comes...
either at the end of the world
or at the end of your life.

Debating with someone about whether or not we are to obey God
does not seem like a way of purifying yourself.

So again, do you know as a fact that you will be like Jesus when you see Him?

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Do you know?

Much love!

Do YOU know that if you abandon your faith you will become as lost as you were before
because
SALVATION IS BY FAITH.

No faith.
No salvation.

Do YOU know that Jesus and Pau taught that salvation can be lost?
Do you really need more posts?
I'll be happy to post all of them AGAIN.

 

[GodsGrace]

This makes me think of the parable where Jesus said those that build their houses on His Words are building upon the Rock and those not building their houses on His Words are building on sand and their fall will be disastrous!

Yes...
Matthew 7:24 and 7:26.

The wise man (24) ACTS on the words of Jesus.

The foolish man (26) does NOT act on His words and his home gets swept away.

I've posted this several times.

It seems the simple words of Jesus are not understood.

I'm also reminded of another verse about weighing the cost of following Jesus before you make a decision:


Luke 14:27-30
27 "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot * be My disciple.
28 "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
29 "Otherwise *, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30 saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'


One must count the cost before starting any endeavor...
all the more to follow Jesus to save our very soul.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It even states that we are to PURIFY OURSELVES.

And this is thru the power of the Holy Spirit!
(they'll claim we're doing this in our own strength and ability apart from the Lord)

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[marks]

WHERE in the NT does it state that we are PERMANENTLY children of God?

In your wording? You'll have to go with what God said. Believe it.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Shall appear, or maybe/might appear? Shall appear.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We know. We know what? We will be like Him.

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Each of these passages show that those who are reborn, who are citizens of heaven now, will remain so. John even clarifies that this very knowledge is what causes us to purify ourselves.

Isn't that your objection? That OSAS leads to liscentiousness? The truth is opposite that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It even states that we are to PURIFY OURSELVES.
What does that mean to you?

Even when it's right in front of you!

Everyone who has this hope . . .

Much love!

 

[pandaflower]

You are still at it. You should stop adding sin to sin. If you are trying to convince me you are obedient to God it's not working.

In reality, mere "believing" doesn't cause anything, it all depends on what or who you believe. And even still, your belief doesn't change your life, God changes you in rebirth.

The fact is, knowing that we are permanently the children of God is what causes us to purify ourselves. It's OSAS that is credited with this.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

No comment needed. The passage is exceedingly plain.

Much love!

I think what causes confusion for some who read the Bible,if they do so rather than merely reading snippets at on-line sites, is in considering obedience as what makes salvation conditional.

And therefore disobedience leads to loss of salvation and damnation,again.

Rather than fix on the word,obedience, I find it helps to consider the words that are synonymous. Because they are more accommodating to peace of mind in God's eternal security.

I also don't think it nourishes our hearts as the church,all who are one in Christ,to imply or state outright any one of us is not truly saved because our posted understanding of God's message does not complete with those who criticize it.

We are 100% eternally secure in Christ.

If we are not so,and we believe we can lose what God appointed should we stray or take a misstep, then we are committing what apostle Paul observed.

Paraphrasing his epistle here.
Thinking we have to crucify Christ all over again so to let that repeated sacrifice save us again should we return to faith. And because we first think losing faith,a misstep of any kind,revokes God's grace filled free gift.

Understanding we are eternally secure in Jesus,because the father gave us this precious understanding and rebirth,isn't a false teaching. It is the good news Jesus delivered. And then died so to pay our sin price so that we would never be condemned by our natural born corrupt fallen nature.

We have a new nature as ones redeemed from sin and reborn in the image and likeness of holy Christ.

I feel the undertaking of tying to argue us out of that eternal fixed truth is a waste of precious life's time.

 

[pandaflower]

In your wording? You'll have to go with what God said. Believe it.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Shall appear, or maybe/might appear? Shall appear.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We know. We know what? We will be like Him.

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Each of these passages show that those who are reborn, who are citizens of heaven now, will remain so. John even clarifies that this very knowledge is what causes us to purify ourselves.

Isn't that your objection? That OSAS leads to liscentiousness? The truth is opposite that.

Much love!.

Truth.

Those in Christ do not wilfully disobey God's leading us on the righteous path.

I have learned the ideology that insists eternal security in Christ allows us to sin at will is not a teaching sustained by God's message.

 

[marks]

I think what causes confusion for some who read the Bible,if they do so rather than merely reading snippets at on-line sites, is in considering obedience as what makes salvation conditional.

And therefore disobedience leads to loss of salvation and damnation,again.

Rather than fix on the word,obedience, I find it helps to consider the words that are synonymous. Because they are more accommodating to peace of mind in God's eternal security.

I also don't think it nourishes our hearts as the church,all who are one in Christ,to imply or state outright any one of us is not truly saved because our posted understanding of God's message does not complete with those who criticize it.

We are 100% eternally secure in Christ.

If we are not so,and we believe we can lose what God appointed should we stray or take a misstep, then we are committing what apostle Paul observed.

Paraphrasing his epistle here.
Thinking we have to crucify Christ all over again so to let that repeated sacrifice save us again should we return to faith. And because we first think losing faith,a misstep of any kind,revokes God's grace filled free gift.

Understanding we are eternally secure in Jesus,because the father gave us this precious understanding and rebirth,isn't a false teaching. It is the good news Jesus delivered. And then died so to pay our sin price so that we would never be condemned by our natural born corrupt fallen nature.

We have a new nature as ones redeemed from sin and reborn in the image and likeness of holy Christ.

I feel the undertaking of tying to argue us out of that eternal fixed truth is a waste of precious life's time.

To me this disagreement shows a fundamentally different understanding of what "regeneration" means. And I think it shows a much lighter view of sin than I myself hold.

Unless sin is fully dealt with, we are all dead. Jesus had to remove all sin so we could be saved. Sin is just that bad!

Those who claim obedience is required, I don't believe they mean it. I think what they mean is, "obedience, as best as I can", just like all of us. Only, they will say we have to believe complete obedience is required, and I don't believe these ones are actually 100% obedient. So it's hypocracy. Unless someone is actually 100% obedient, but whenever I ask about that they shy away from it. No one seems to want to make that claim.

I think what's happening here is that they excuse their own sins while accusing others. Paul wrote about that, those who go by their conscience excusing themselves while accusing others.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Truth.

Those in Christ do not wilfully disobey God's leading us on the righteous path.

I have learned the ideology that insists eternal security in Christ allows us to sin at will is not a teaching sustained by God's message.

Not at all! God is constantly working in us producing righteousness and holiness in our lives.

Much love!

 

[pandaflower]

Not at all! God is constantly working in us producing righteousness and holiness in our lives.

Much love!

True.
God tells us,those who make a habit of sinning do not know him.

Which is to say, those who think they are Christian while living a corrupt life are very misguided.

Think of all those public figures surrounded by scandal. They're wearing a cross pendent while a drug abuser,a sex trafficker, and so forth.

 

[marks]

True.
God tells us,those who make a habit of sinning do not know him.

Which is to say, those who think they are Christian while living a corrupt life are very misguided.

Think of all those public figures surrounded by scandal. They're wearing a cross pendent while a drug abuser,a sex trafficker, and so forth.

Each of us have our own issues. God knows our hearts, and He know who are His children.

I've come to define "humility" as "being honest with myself about myself", and this produces dependence on God and not myself.

Much love!