Is it scriptural to instruct angels?

[Helen]

I am sceptical bc Nehushtan worshippers, whom i do not condemn, ok, i did that for forty years, but neither do i desire to suffer their interpretations any longer, either. I would not correct a little kid who told me that babies come from the stork, but neither would i be sitting at their feet waiting for pearls of wisdom either

Again...I see you now hiding behind this Nehushtan thing, and using it to nullify anything said by others that you don't particularly agree with.

Mark...you have made a 'new denomination' with this Nehushtan thing!!
How on earth do you know who worships the risen Lord, and who is stuck worshipping the dead body on the cross?
No one knows but God!!
Sometimes you write as if it is - "you against the rest of Christendom" ...which actually makes you appear quite arrogant...as if "only you" can discern where everyone else is ( or is not) spiritually...Nehushtan worshipping or otherwise. Yet it seems that as you write it is only you who is not!!
It must get lonely 'up there'!!!

 

[bbyrd009]

It is unwise to consider anything about things we don't know or understand.

the point that Scripture makes @ Thomas is pretty clear, when seen imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Mark...you have made a 'new denomination' with this Nehushtan thing!

i suggest that that is a description of all denominations already, not a new one; the oldest one

 

[bbyrd009]

How on earth do you know who worships the risen Lord, and who is stuck worshipping the dead body on the cross?

by their fruit, by one's speech, by hearing, by having been a Nehushtan worshipper my whole life, practically, etc. And i want to reiterate that i do not mean to judge anyone still doing this, ok; it is an essential step, even, i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Sometimes you write as if it is - "you against the rest of Christendom" ...which actually makes you appear quite arrogant...as if "only you" can discern where everyone else is ( or is not) spiritually...Nehushtan worshipping or otherwise. Yet it seems that as you write it is only you who is not!

ah, i don't even claim to be there myself, tbh, i have only seen far enough to find Nehushtan in the Bible, like a year ago or whatever ok, and i have done my best to make that clear. Direct me to any others who have revealed Nehushtan, bam, just start listing the pastors that have given the sermon, and i will be the student again, i would prefer this anyway lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Yet it seems that as you write it is only you who is not!

i try to speak very generally about Nehushtan worshippers, fwiw; i have never accused anyone of this, and only invoke GG bc she has confessed to it, but tbh i don't even consider her a Nehushtan worshipper, ok. Also, i doubt the belief i currently hold will be the belief that i have in 5 years on the matter. So if i project this in any way, i apologize, as i do not mean to even imply that

 

[FHII]

I often hear preachers commanding angels to do this and that, but it just doesn't sit well with my spirit. They invariably quote Hebrews 1:14 "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?"

However, I don't see any other reference to instructing angels in the New Testament.

Surely, the angels are a mechanism that God uses to help, guide and sometimes delivery us, thank you Jesus. But isn't the way that God helps us up to him? I don't see that the scripture in Hebrews 1:14 is strong enough for us to start ordering angels around?

What's your opinion?

I rhink we can commision angels, I think they can minister to us, I do believe in gaurdian angels and I believe we will judge angels. But command them? No. We can petition God and he may send forth his servants (angels) to aid us. But this is not commanding anyone.

There is an angel in Exo 23 that looked after those who gave a first fruits offering. If you did that, you enacted him or commissioned him. But there is a warning to beware of him, obey him and don't provoke him. For the most part, its difficult to tell if God is speaking of the angel or himself.

God commands the angels. We don't. I can't imagine what this universe would be like if men commanded angels.

 

[bbyrd009]

It is unwise to consider anything about things we don't know or understand.

wait, it is?

 

[bbyrd009]

Without even looking further Mary must obviously come to mind..she asked him "how shall these things be?" and Gabriel answered her.

As for not talking or answering or eating..."Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves 5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. 6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. 7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
...... 10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him...."
They had a two way conversation...Abraham was not 'thinking inside himself." And the three angels ate.

ya, there's something weird going on with Lot's angels, too, read it last night, but i forget what now, something along the same lines. So there are those. Dunno if the Bible just trying to present all possibilities or what there? Bam think of angels as ppl if you like, i mean who am i lol

 

[amadeus]

We know for sure that we should not pray to angels. Which is what those links were about. Agree.
No where does it say "do not talk to angels."
If an angel spoke to me, I for sure would answer him...
Mary answered Gabriel. Abraham spoke to the three angels that visited him.
Lot spoke with the angels. The parents of Samson spoke with the angel.
Speaking to, is a lot different than "commanding or instructing" angels, as in Q of the OP.

.....H

What is the difference between talking to and praying to God? It is a line of communication we have, is it not? Can we simply converse with God without asking Him for something? Should we?

Should we talk with each other on this forum or anywhere about the things of God? Should we ask one another questions about the things of God?

So then if we understand clearly the correct answers to all of the questions I posed, what would be the difference if I were insert the word angel or messenger in place of God or of you or me?

What did God mean by these words?

"Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me." Isaiah 45:10-11

I recall once many years ago a visiting preacher spoke on Isaiah 45:11 indicating that it mean we are to command God to do things. I was young in the Lord and that preacher did not clarify the problems involved in you or me telling God what to do.

If we read the verses immediately prior to those cited we see that God is explaining something about His own role in things. He is the helper. He is the Creator. He is the Leader. He is the gift giver. He is the One who called Jacob. He set up the whole thing and he lets us know that questioning the Way of the Creator is not an advisable activity for the creation. But then with that background He says "concerning the work of my hands command ye me".

John's written words may help us to understand what God wants of us:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

So then how should we command God [or His angels or messengers]?
As God would command Himself or them. As we become like Him, then our thoughts and ways should be becoming like His Way. When we are really in the Spirit or in Christ and He is in us, should we not do what God would do?

Has any man ever correctly rebuked a devil? Has any man ever correctly called the fire of God down from heaven? Has any man ever done those things wrong?

If we are ever the angel of God and we are following the lead of the Holy Spirit then are we not correctly rebuking or calling down God's fire?

 

[amadeus]

i suggest that that is a description of all denominations already, not a new one; the oldest one

Perhaps and even probably this is so for every church group as a group, but are there not individuals within and without such groups who are able at times to get it right with God? This is perhaps the point we make when we speak of the real Church as opposed the many churches.

 

[amadeus]

ah, i don't even claim to be there myself, tbh, i have only seen far enough to find Nehushtan in the Bible, like a year ago or whatever ok, and i have done my best to make that clear. Direct me to any others who have revealed Nehushtan, bam, just start listing the pastors that have given the sermon, and i will be the student again, i would prefer this anyway lol

Yes, indeed, sometimes we are able to see clearly even though we do not then as a result walk along the pathway we have seen.
Has anyone ever heard a backslidden preacher preach an anointed message? Who is it that God uses to deliver His messages? Does He only use heavenly angels who are not sinners?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph 4:11-12

How many overcomers have we heard preaching from our pulpits? Because they are not [complete overcomers as was Jesus] doesn't mean God is not giving them His message for people, does it?

 

[bbyrd009]

What is the difference between talking to and praying to God?

gee Wally, how is God going to know what i need Him to do, or what i want if i don't pray to Him?
lol

 

[bbyrd009]

But then with that background He says "concerning the work of my hands command ye me".

hmm, seems to be Xlated other ways, in other trannies? i haven't hardly looked though, haven't been to Lex yet even
Isaiah 45 Parallel Chapters
Isaiah 45:11 Lexicon: Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: "Ask Me about the things to come concerning My sons, And you shall commit to Me the work of My hands.

 

[bbyrd009]

Perhaps and even probably this is so for every church group as a group, but are there not individuals within and without such groups who are able at times to get it right with God? This is perhaps the point we make when we speak of the real Church as opposed the many churches.

ya, i have even stated, and also believe that Nehushtan worship is not necessarily something to be perceived as "evil," but a likely unavoidable step. Nehushtan was what the ppl needed at the time, and if we are to compare our walk to the Wanderings, then the Snake on a Pole scenario should play out IRL for us some kind of way, i guess

also, that is not necessarily a reflection of one's heart, or even Truth, capital t; beliefs are likely the worst possible way to try to arrive at any truth i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, indeed, sometimes we are able to see clearly even though we do not then as a result walk along the pathway we have seen.
Has anyone ever heard a backslidden preacher preach an anointed message? Who is it that God uses to deliver His messages? Does He only use heavenly angels who are not sinners?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph 4:11-12

How many overcomers have we heard preaching from our pulpits? Because they are not [complete overcomers as was Jesus] doesn't mean God is not giving them His message for people, does it?

yes, God comes to us where we are at, and is much more forgiving than me lol

 

[amadeus]

ya, i have even stated, and also believe that Nehushtan worship is not necessarily something to be perceived as "evil," but a likely unavoidable step. Nehushtan was what the ppl needed at the time, and if we are to compare our walk to the Wanderings, then the Snake on a Pole scenario should play out IRL for us some kind of way, i guess

also, that is not necessarily a reflection of one's heart, or even Truth, capital t; beliefs are likely the worst possible way to try to arrive at any truth i guess

Yes, probably many, if not all, people have at the first only had a very carnal vision of God and salvation. They persisted in standing even on that carnal viewpoint and somewhere along the way it became the Way, a spiritual vision. We all have to start somewhere, but it seems that some never grow...

 

[amadeus]

yes, God comes to us where we are at, and is much more forgiving than me lol

More forgiving than any of us because He understands our frailties much better than we do.

 

[amadeus]

gee Wally, how is God going to know what i need Him to do, or what i want if i don't pray to Him?
lol

Early on in our walk with God He overlooks our ignorance and lets us get away with many things, but eventually we need to get past those things. David did have too many wives. What do we have that interferes with our ability to move closer to God? We do not even know the complete answer to the question, much less are we able to do it... by ourselves. We might go back again to these verses:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:33-34

Just stay after the first things and stop worrying so much about everything else... such as how to get God to do what I want Him to do.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, probably many, if not all, people have at the first only had a very carnal vision of God and salvation. They persisted in standing even on that carnal viewpoint and somewhere along the way it became the Way, a spiritual vision. We all have to start somewhere, but it seems that some never grow...

yes, and God forbid you should make the observation, even generally speaking, i guess lol
i notice the reactions in general to "many will be deceived; even the elect" is basically "meh."