Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?

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Episkopos

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When it comes to Jesus as Head of the church, we are being pulled in two opposite directions....in a cosmic tug of war. Those who side with the devil, even as they adopt a shallow veneer of Christ, are adopting a kind of doctrine that supports people who hold onto the flesh and claim exclusivity in a bid for survival and self-aggrandizement. The very few who have a living faith are seen as extreme outliers in comparison to the deception of the devil that has been so widely accepted by the religious institutions.

Judgment is coming and begins at God's house. We should be working out our own salvation with fear and trembling...but only those who have a living faith can comprehend the need for this. The devil's counterfeit doesn't require righteousness, honesty, humility, or the fear of the Lord...or any other facet of wisdom.
 
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Episkopos

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I have already added it to my way of thinking. Perhaps I wasn't clear.

Logic is a powerful tool for us to know what is true. In this case, there is significance to Jesus NOT saying ALL will receive mercy. He said a subset of all, "the merciful." What does this imply those who are NOT merciful will receive?
And the unmerciful includes the religious fundamentalists that consigns all unbelievers to hell, regardless of their situation. For these extremists...who of course include themselves in their exclusivity...ignore the bible and invent a new set of conditions for salvation based on their own preferences and their own dogmatic inclinations.

Will these be warned of their folly? Only those who love the truth more than their own religious conditioning.
 

Episkopos

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He who believes on ME shall not abide in darkness .
Therre be only one way and one name by which one can be pulled from the darkness
and power of satan . HIS NAME BE JESUS the GLORIOUS CHRIST .
And one must BELEIVE ON HIM .
If a man beleives not the testimony that GOD gave of the SON he does call GOD a liar
and beleive me his works will not save him . TO deny GOD , to call GOD a liar
is the work and working of satan and of the darkness and of all who loved and made a lie .
This church age needs to seriously be reminded
of how one is actually saved again . Because many have opened up and made the road to GOD
very broad . YET THERE BE ONLY ONE WAY TO GOD and YE MUST BELIEVE IN HIM , JESUS THE CHRIST .
Always remember this . For satan desires the death of all and he cannot free a man from the bondage
of sin and of death . ONLY JESUS can do that . ONLY JESUS can give eternal life
and one MUST beleive ON HIM .
This is an example of religious folly that seeks for self-affirmation, and condemns all others who don't kiss the ring or bend the knee.. to the "saved" EGO.

A person that fears God, and has learned wisdom and balance doesn't slam down one side of an equation and allow mercy and the inclusivity of God to go flying into pieces into oblivion. A tree is known of its fruit. Using bible speak to cover up an evil intent is the favorite ploy from the adversary.

Remember the coming judgment. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God...with an intact religious arrogance.
 
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Wrangler

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And the unmerciful includes the religious fundamentalists that consigns all unbelievers to hell, regardless of their situation. For these extremists...who of course include themselves in their exclusivity...ignore the bible and invent a new set of conditions for salvation based on their own preferences and their own dogmatic inclinations.

Will these be warned of their folly? Only those who love the truth more than their own religious conditioning.
My view of faith such as Romans 10:9 is that it is a guarantee, whereas living an otherwise good life relies on Romans 2 getting justice, getting what your works deserve. Obviously, such determinations are above our pay gradebut I believe both of us believe in a just and merciful God, especially as it pertains to the innocent - babies, people who never heard of Jesus, etc.
 
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Marvelloustime

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He who believes on ME shall not abide in darkness .
Therre be only one way and one name by which one can be pulled from the darkness
and power of satan . HIS NAME BE JESUS the GLORIOUS CHRIST .
And one must BELEIVE ON HIM .
If a man beleives not the testimony that GOD gave of the SON he does call GOD a liar
and beleive me his works will not save him . TO deny GOD , to call GOD a liar
is the work and working of satan and of the darkness and of all who loved and made a lie .
This church age needs to seriously be reminded
of how one is actually saved again . Because many have opened up and made the road to GOD
very broad . YET THERE BE ONLY ONE WAY TO GOD and YE MUST BELIEVE IN HIM , JESUS THE CHRIST .
Always remember this . For satan desires the death of all and he cannot free a man from the bondage
of sin and of death . ONLY JESUS can do that . ONLY JESUS can give eternal life
and one MUST beleive ON HIM .
@amigo de christo
save-image.pngsave-image.pngsave-image.pngsave-image.pngsave-image.png
 
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brightfame52

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Only what DID THIS SAVOIR say one must do TO BE SAVED .
BELEIVE ON HIM . always remember that .
Thats works, believing on Jesus is evidence of salvation not a condition. There is no believing in Jesus b4 one is actually saved by Him.
 

brightfame52

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He who believes on ME shall not abide in darkness .
He that believes in Jesus had already been saved and delivered out of darkness Col 1:13

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

We cant believe in the True Christ until was have been delivered from the power of darkness into His Kingdom.
 
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amigo de christo

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He that believes in Jesus had already been saved and delivered out of darkness Col 1:13

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

We cant believe in the True Christ until was have been delivered from the power of darkness into His Kingdom.
Correct my friend .
 
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amigo de christo

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Thats works, believing on Jesus is evidence of salvation not a condition. There is no believing in Jesus b4 one is actually saved by Him.
incorrect my friend .
Lest ye desire to call paul and silas liars when the jailor asked them
what must I DO to be saved .
BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST was their answer .
Folks take things too far my friend . Do not do as they do . Be encouraged .
 
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JLB

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If someone has faith in the one God (LORD) as Abraham did—before God revealed the gospel through His Son, the future Messiah—then that person can also attain true righteousness today. Whether this faith and obedience are genuine depends on God.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8


Do you understand that Abraham had a relationship with Jesus Christ, before He became flesh.


Do you realize that the Lord God Almighty who appeared to Abraham and made covenant with him was Jesus Christ, before He became flesh?


When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1


No one in the Old Testament ever saw God the Father.

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18


Everyone who saw God in the Old Testament was seeing Jesus Christ, before He became flesh.
 

JustMe

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And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8


Do you understand that Abraham had a relationship with Jesus Christ, before He became flesh.


Do you realize that the Lord God Almighty who appeared to Abraham and made covenant with him was Jesus Christ, before He became flesh?


When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1


No one in the Old Testament ever saw God the Father.

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18


Everyone who saw God in the Old Testament was seeing Jesus Christ, before He became flesh.
No, not to your first two questions. As for your final comment, it seems rather exaggerated. You must be referring to a different version of the Bible than I am.
 

WalterandDebbie

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As humans, we seem to find a proper balance to be something that escapes us, so often, preferring a more radical and simplistic view to one that requires nuance and a deeper understanding of the matter. Is salvation inclusive or exclusive? What if it's both!

Good study, My Brother, we will keep you in our prayers. Thank you for sharing. Love always, Walter and Debbie
 
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brightfame52

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incorrect my friend .
Lest ye desire to call paul and silas liars when the jailor asked them
what must I DO to be saved .
BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST was their answer .
Folks take things too far my friend . Do not do as they do . Be encouraged .
If He believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, it would be evidence that Jesus had saved him. It takes the power of God to believe in Jesus Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead
, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Believing in Jesus is the work of God in us Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Man cant take credit for believing in Jesus, God gets the credit. Do you believe that or No ?
 

JLB

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No, not to your first two questions. As for your final comment, it seems rather exaggerated. You must be referring to a different version of the Bible than I am.

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18




Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6


  • And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.


The Angel of the Lord is a reference to the Son of God, not God the Father.
 

JustMe

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No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18




Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6


  • And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.


The Angel of the Lord is a reference to the Son of God, not God the Father.
Disagree, not the Son of God at all, as he never existed off the plan of God yet. It was an angel as it says, the angel or messenger of God, the Father. The messenger spoke the word of God to Moses.

And at John 1 :18: it's about Yeshua's state or close relationship in spirit with his Father after his anointing. The Father's word and spirit inhabited the Son. The Son declared and spoke the word of his Father as his personal word of God.
 

JLB

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Disagree, not the Son of God at all, as he never existed off the plan of God yet. It was an angel as it says, the angel or messenger of God, the Father. The messenger spoke the word of God to Moses.

The scripture plainly and clearly says Moses was afraid to LOOK upon God.

Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:6


Look at the progressive revelation in this scripture demonstrating that the Angel of the Lord is the Lord and God.


And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”
Exodus 3:2-4


The Angel of the LORD is The LORD, and He is God.
 
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JustMe

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The scripture plainly and clearly says Moses was afraid to LOOK upon God.

Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:6


Look at the progressive revelation in this scripture demonstrating that the Angel of the Lord is the Lord and God.


And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”
Exodus 3:2-4


The Angel of the LORD is The LORD, and He is God.
I'll give you an explanation as to why Moses hid his face...

Moses had a very deep awareness of his own sinfulness and unworthiness in the presence of the holy God. This fear also tracks with the belief that no one can see God and live, as later affirmed in Exodus 33:20, reinforcing the idea that direct vision of God's essence would be fatal.

Now of course the reality of it was that the angel spoke God's words to Moses and YHWH was present although not to where his form could be felt or seen to Moses. And Moses took no chances.

So, what is your clear and exact take on this Exodus 3:6b?
 
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JLB

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I'll give you an explanation as to why Moses hid his face...

Moses had a very deep awareness of his own sinfulness and unworthiness in the presence of the holy God. This fear also tracks with the belief that no one can see God and live, as later affirmed in Exodus 33:20, reinforcing the idea that direct vision of God's essence would be fatal.

Now of course the reality of it was that the angel spoke God's words to Moses and YHWH was present although not to where his form could be felt or seen to Moses. And Moses took no chances.

So, what is your clear and exact take on this Exodus 3:6b?

What’s clear is the scripture plainly says Moses was afraid to LOOK UPON God.


The Angel of the LORD is God; the Son of God


In scripture angels are called sons of God.

The Angel of the LORD is the Son of God.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1Timothy 3:16
 
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JustMe

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What’s clear is the scripture plainly says Moses was afraid to LOOK UPON God.


The Angel of the LORD is God; the Son of God


In scripture angels are called sons of God.

The Angel of the LORD is the Son of God.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1Timothy 3:16
Well let me start with last item first. I gave this commentary of 1 Timothy 3:16 in another thread on this site not too long ago. Here it is again...

1 Timothy 3:16 – segments of Christ’s life​

This verse is set as a creed as a hymn in poetic language.

The controversy centers around the use of the word ‘God’ or ‘who’ or ‘which, or ‘He.’ Now the message of the verse really does not alter by using any of the choices, although some will take the opportunity if the word is ‘God’ as the more acceptable word as proof that Yeshua, the Son of God is also God the Son. And fail to realize the point of the verse is about Yeshua’s’ life of godliness, shown in segments.

If God is used it surely does not mean God the Son is revealed in the flesh. It can mean that since God was in his Son, then his Father who is God was revealed through his Son, who was born human person. And if one of the other three choice of words was the best fit, then it would clearly reveal Yeshua the human being as part of the theme of godliness. And thus indicating his natural and yet unique method of creation.

Now from the start it must be said that the use of the word 'God' was a later insertion into the verse.

The majority of modern critical editions of the Greek New Testament, such as the Nestle-Aland and United Bible Societies' texts, favor the reading "He who was manifested in the flesh" or "Who was manifested in the flesh" based on the earliest extant manuscripts, including Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Alexandrinus, and others.

“God was manifested in flesh” is what we still have in the Textus Receptus but they who follow the Westcott & Hort / Nestle text do not have it.

In An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture (posthumously published in 1754), Isaac Newton argues that a small change to early Greek versions of this verse effectively changed "which" (referring to godliness) was changed to "God". This change increases textual support for trinitarianism, a doctrine to which Newton did not subscribe. There is evidence that the original Greek read 'ος' but was modified by the addition of a strikethrough to become 'θς' (see the excerpt from the Codex Sinaiticus, above). 'θς' was then assumed to be a contraction of 'θεος.' The biblical scholar Metzger explains, "no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century (Ψ) supports θεος; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς or ὃ; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading of θεος."[24] In other words, Bible manuscripts closest to the original said 'who' and not 'God' in verse 16.

[ Source for paragraph above : First Epistle to Timothy - Wikipedia ]

The difference between these two readings has nothing to do with anyone wanting to "weaken the relationship between Father and Son"; it is simply a statement of fact consistent with the textual philosophy of the particular version being used. More specifically:

  1. If we accept that earlier manuscripts are more likely to have the original text, then we essentially arrive at the UBS5/NA28 text. In 1 Tim 3:16 this gives "he/who" uniformly for all early MSS
  2. If we accept the much later Byzantine text, then we essentially arrive at the Robinson-Pierpoint text (quite different from the TR but similar to the majority text). In 1 Tim 3:16 this gives "God".
The evidence from a number of Greek texts and textual authorities clearly indicates that the word “God” (theos in the Greek) was not originally in this verse. The King James Version was translated from the Stephens Greek text; and the Stephens Greek text does have in this verse the word theos, from which “God” was accurately translated. However, in Jesus Christ Is Not God, page 33, Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille reveals that in all the critical Greek texts other than Stephens, the masculine relative pronoun hos appears, instead of the word theos. These critical texts are documented in a note at the bottom of page 543 in The Interlinear KJV Parallel New Testament in Greek and English by George Ricker Berry. As noted in place of theos, these texts all have hos, meaning “who.”
The Companion Bible adds the understanding that it’s probable that an earlier reading was the neuter pronoun ho (which), to agree with mustērion, the Greek word translated “mystery,” which is also neuter. This agrees with the Syriac Version and all the Latin Versions….[1]

1 Timothy 3:16 in Codex Alexandrinus​

Reproduced below is the text of 1 Timothy 3:16–4:3 from Codex A, as presented in the photographic facsimile volume published by the British Museum in 1879. Of particular interest here is the reading in 3:16, where it may be seen that the manuscript reads ΘC "God was manifested in the flesh," employing the usual abbreviation ΘC for ΘEOC, with a stroke over the letters to indicate an abbreviation. However, textual critics believe that the ink in the center of ‘the Θ and the stroke above were added by a corrector in modern times. Reasons for this belief are the color of the ink, and the fact that a "dot" has been placed in the Θ instead of a line. Tregelles writes, "The ink in which this has been done in A is sufficiently modern and black to declare its recent application" (An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament, London, 1854). Without these marks, the manuscript originally read ΟC "He who was manifested in the flesh." In the photograph below the ΘC in 3:16 is circled. Further down, in verse 4:3, there is another ΘC circled for comparison. Click on the circled areas for a larger view.[2]


1767041397168.png


1767041422532.png

Figure 2 - 1 Tim 3:16 text alteration

And for your first subject, again...

"What’s clear is the scripture plainly says Moses was afraid to LOOK UPON God."

And you have not given your explanation for it either. Why was Moses afraid, in your own words?

Have you read in the OT where this created angel or messenger of YHWH was also an immoral Son of God, of any kind? Not likely! If as you believe, this angel of the OT is the same Son of YHWH of the NT, what was his name in the OT? And the angel of God does not cut it either, unless you are happy fooling yourself, using circular illogic by which you believe.

[1] (Way, 2021)
[2] (1 Timothy 3:16 in Codex Alexandrinus)
 
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