Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?

[Wrangler]

Judgment is coming and begins at God's house.

Most Christians seem to be unaware of this.

 

[JLB]

1 Timothy 3:16 – segments of Christ’s life​

This verse is set as a creed as a hymn in poetic language.

Sorry bro, but 1 Timothy 3:16 is scripture; God’s word.


Your theology is little more that just denial of scripture.


You are is a dangerous frame of mind.


Please spend some time humbling yourself and repenting before the Lord.

 

[Wrangler]

The Angel of the LORD is God; the Son of God


In scripture angels are called sons of God.

The Angel of the LORD is the Son of God.

<Extremely well researched reply from @JustMe>

Please spend some time humbling yourself and repenting before the Lord.

That’s your reply? Ad Homenim. Sad.

 

[RepentingChristian]

I listened recently to Rob Reiner and his take on Christian nationalism. His take is that the political movement in the name of Jesus goes against the teachings of Jesus. I think he is showing more wisdom than many Christians....

How many non-Christians are in God's Kingdom right now? Do you believe that God is a bigot for disallowing non-followers of Christ from entering the Kingdom?

 

[Ezra]

he died gave his life for the world so the whosoever shall call can be saved

 

[Ezra]

The devil's counterfeit doesn't require righteousness, honesty, humility, or the fear of the Lord...or any other facet of wisdom.

this is absolute truth

 

[Ezra]

Most Christians seem to be unaware of this.

unaware im pretty sure they know.. but are ignoring it possibly we do to at times

 

[JLB]

<Extremely well researched reply from @JustMe>



That’s your reply? Ad Homenim. Sad.

‘It’s not ad homenim, it’s the honest truth.


When a person refers to scripture as a “creed” a “hymn” or a just “poetic language”, rather than the inspired word of God, they have set themselves in direct opposition to God.


It’s sad that God’s people would even attempt to downplay the scriptures, which is aligning oneself with the devil.

 

[JustMe]

Sorry bro, but 1 Timothy 3:16 is scripture; God’s word.


Your theology is little more that just denial of scripture.


You are is a dangerous frame of mind.


Please spend some time humbling yourself and repenting before the Lord.

So I take it you are overwhelmed and concede, in that what I presented is nothing you have seen before and you are at at a loss for words.

That happens sometimes and nothing to be ashamed of after you swallow your pride.

 

[JustMe]

‘It’s not ad homenim, it’s the honest truth.


When a person refers to scripture as a “creed” a “hymn” or a just “poetic language”, rather than the inspired word of God, they have set themselves in direct opposition to God.


It’s sad that God’s people would even attempt to downplay the scriptures, which is aligning oneself with the devil.

Look JLB, you do not get it do you, I'm amazed. Many scripture is formed in a type poetic language. I believe you need to learn more about how scripture is represented. You must know the culture and style of writing and speaking, a couple of thousand years back and more. It's for the advanced student who would understand this subject.

And stop crying about it and learn, without sobbing and bringing in the evil one into the conversation... you are confusing...

 

[Wrangler]

When a person refers to scripture as a “creed” a “hymn” or a just “poetic language”, rather than the inspired word of God, they have set themselves in direct opposition to God.

While I never heard that verse used as a creed, I dismiss your characterization that doing so, in and of itself means one has ‘set themselves in direct opposition to God.’ You don’t think that’s a tad harsh?

I give everyone the benefit of the doubt that everyone in this forum is sincere in their beliefs.

 

[Episkopos]

How many non-Christians are in God's Kingdom right now? Do you believe that God is a bigot for disallowing non-followers of Christ from entering the Kingdom?

God's mercy extends into the "nations of them that are saved". And that judgment is yet to come. The meek shall inherit the earth

 

[amigo de christo]

If He believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, it would be evidence that Jesus had saved him. It takes the power of God to believe in Jesus Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Believing in Jesus is the work of God in us Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Man cant take credit for believing in Jesus, God gets the credit. Do you believe that or No ?

Man cant take credit for anything . yes i do agree on that . IT was THE FATHER who drew me .
And guess what our message should be , TO be saved YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
and yet somehow you take the latter of YE MUST BELEIVE to BE SAVED and turn that into legalism being preached .
SO the error IS on y our part .
I know IT was GOD who drew me , so i take no credit for that .
But to turn it around and do as you do , IS deadly dangerous .
THE MESSAGE IS and MUST REMAIN that to BE SAVED YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS .
LET GOD add who HE adds . BUT T RUTH must be spoken . AND the TRUTH IS
That TO BE SAVED YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

Most Christians seem to be unaware of this.

And worse most christains have no idea they are being led even against CHRIST and the true christains .
How often has persecution arisen ALSO by those who wore wool against true sheep .
THIS will be no different my friend .
The entire realm of the merged inclusive ecumenical interfaith false love religoin
IS as one mind already being led INTO UPMOST rebellion against the VERY GOD they think they follow
against the very Christ those trapped in sold out churches THINK is CHRIST
A judgment , a snare has been sent .
THAT v ery few are aware of now . The j udgment of delusion onto a generation that simply
refused to repent , to love the truth , and thus are being given over to the LIE .
The LIE they think is love and is lov ing . The lie of the great ecumenical harlot who s its upon many waters .
And she and her children and all who merged under the love of a harlot
WILL be damned . SO , lets get busy exposing her works and her false love
BY PREACHING JESUS AND THE TRUE LOVE OF GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

While I never heard that verse used as a creed, I dismiss your characterization that doing so, in and of itself means one has ‘set themselves in direct opposition to God.’ You don’t think that’s a tad harsh?

I give everyone the benefit of the doubt that everyone in this forum is sincere in their beliefs.

I am sure the false prophtess jezebel was sincere in her beleifs too .
Being sincere in ones own beleifs Means NOTHING
but destruction , when those beliefs contract GOD ALL MIGHTY and THE LAMB , that gospel of ye must BELEIVE
I have had many beleifs while living my life , And beleive me when i say THEM beleifs did not agree
WITH THE VERY WORDS OF GOD and OF HIS CHRIST .
BUT THANK GOD FOR HIS mercy which drew me to CHRIST and put a whole new BELEIF upon my HEART .
TO BELEIVE ON HE WHOM GOD DID SEND . To beleive HIS WORDS and not the twisetd words of men .
TO beleive What is written and not men who twisted it . Bible time in the building my friend and my friends .
We got wolves in wool all over the place .

 

[amigo de christo]

God's mercy extends into the "nations of them that are saved". And that judgment is yet to come. The meek shall inherit the earth

GODS mercy IS THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST and it has been being preached t hroughout the world and nations .
ALL WHO DO BELEIVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST are the saved of those nations .
And all who do reject HIM will be surely and sorely damned .

 

[amigo de christo]

While I never heard that verse used as a creed, I dismiss your characterization that doing so, in and of itself means one has ‘set themselves in direct opposition to God.’ You don’t think that’s a tad harsh?

I give everyone the benefit of the doubt that everyone in this forum is sincere in their beliefs.

ps , to recite a creed does not condemn them , so long as that creed is not in opposition TO HE who does save and can save .

 

[Ezra]

Well let me start with last item first. I gave this commentary of 1 Timothy 3:16 in another thread on this site not too long ago. Here it is again...

1 Timothy 3:16 – segments of Christ’s life​

This verse is set as a creed as a hymn in poetic language.

The controversy centers around the use of the word ‘God’ or ‘who’ or ‘which, or ‘He.’ Now the message of the verse really does not alter by using any of the choices, although some will take the opportunity if the word is ‘God’ as the more acceptable word as proof that Yeshua, the Son of God is also God the Son. And fail to realize the point of the verse is about Yeshua’s’ life of godliness, shown in segments.

If God is used it surely does not mean God the Son is revealed in the flesh. It can mean that since God was in his Son, then his Father who is God was revealed through his Son, who was born human person. And if one of the other three choice of words was the best fit, then it would clearly reveal Yeshua the human being as part of the theme of godliness. And thus indicating his natural and yet unique method of creation.

Now from the start it must be said that the use of the word 'God' was a later insertion into the verse.

The majority of modern critical editions of the Greek New Testament, such as the Nestle-Aland and United Bible Societies' texts, favor the reading "He who was manifested in the flesh" or "Who was manifested in the flesh" based on the earliest extant manuscripts, including Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Alexandrinus, and others.

“God was manifested in flesh” is what we still have in the Textus Receptus but they who follow the Westcott & Hort / Nestle text do not have it.

In An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture (posthumously published in 1754), Isaac Newton argues that a small change to early Greek versions of this verse effectively changed "which" (referring to godliness) was changed to "God". This change increases textual support for trinitarianism, a doctrine to which Newton did not subscribe. There is evidence that the original Greek read 'ος' but was modified by the addition of a strikethrough to become 'θς' (see the excerpt from the Codex Sinaiticus, above). 'θς' was then assumed to be a contraction of 'θεος.' The biblical scholar Metzger explains, "no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century (Ψ) supports θεος; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς or ὃ; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading of θεος."[24] In other words, Bible manuscripts closest to the original said 'who' and not 'God' in verse 16.

[ Source for paragraph above : First Epistle to Timothy - Wikipedia ]

The difference between these two readings has nothing to do with anyone wanting to "weaken the relationship between Father and Son"; it is simply a statement of fact consistent with the textual philosophy of the particular version being used. More specifically:

1. If we accept that earlier manuscripts are more likely to have the original text, then we essentially arrive at the UBS5/NA28 text. In 1 Tim 3:16 this gives "he/who" uniformly for all early MSS
2. If we accept the much later Byzantine text, then we essentially arrive at the Robinson-Pierpoint text (quite different from the TR but similar to the majority text). In 1 Tim 3:16 this gives "God".

The evidence from a number of Greek texts and textual authorities clearly indicates that the word “God” (theos in the Greek) was not originally in this verse. The King James Version was translated from the Stephens Greek text; and the Stephens Greek text does have in this verse the word theos, from which “God” was accurately translated. However, in Jesus Christ Is Not God, page 33, Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille reveals that in all the critical Greek texts other than Stephens, the masculine relative pronoun hos appears, instead of the word theos. These critical texts are documented in a note at the bottom of page 543 in The Interlinear KJV Parallel New Testament in Greek and English by George Ricker Berry. As noted in place of theos, these texts all have hos, meaning “who.”
The Companion Bible adds the understanding that it’s probable that an earlier reading was the neuter pronoun ho (which), to agree with mustērion, the Greek word translated “mystery,” which is also neuter. This agrees with the Syriac Version and all the Latin Versions….[1]

1 Timothy 3:16 in Codex Alexandrinus​

Reproduced below is the text of 1 Timothy 3:16–4:3 from Codex A, as presented in the photographic facsimile volume published by the British Museum in 1879. Of particular interest here is the reading in 3:16, where it may be seen that the manuscript reads ΘC "God was manifested in the flesh," employing the usual abbreviation ΘC for ΘEOC, with a stroke over the letters to indicate an abbreviation. However, textual critics believe that the ink in the center of ‘the Θ and the stroke above were added by a corrector in modern times. Reasons for this belief are the color of the ink, and the fact that a "dot" has been placed in the Θ instead of a line. Tregelles writes, "The ink in which this has been done in A is sufficiently modern and black to declare its recent application" (An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament, London, 1854). Without these marks, the manuscript originally read ΟC "He who was manifested in the flesh." In the photograph below the ΘC in 3:16 is circled. Further down, in verse 4:3, there is another ΘC circled for comparison. Click on the circled areas for a larger view.[2]


View attachment 76587


View attachment 76588

Figure 2 - 1 Tim 3:16 text alteration

And for your first subject, again...

"What’s clear is the scripture plainly says Moses was afraid to LOOK UPON God."

And you have not given your explanation for it either. Why was Moses afraid, in your own words?

Have you read in the OT where this created angel or messenger of YHWH was also an immoral Son of God, of any kind? Not likely! If as you believe, this angel of the OT is the same Son of YHWH of the NT, what was his name in the OT? And the angel of God does not cut it either, unless you are happy fooling yourself, using circular illogic by which you believe.

---

[1] (Way, 2021)
[2] (1 Timothy 3:16 in Codex Alexandrinus)

if you like this kind of study that belongs to you.. i take the word at what it has to say

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. mystery is something that has to be discovered so Godliness is living the life / a doer of the word Godliness has to be developed. much like holiness/sanctifaction which means set apart from the world .

when we get saved we are set apart to live a life opposite of our old nature ,, be ye separate. as far as i am concerned the angel of the Lord is the preincarnate Christ . all this other stuff you posted makes no sense . the preachers i listen to who hold dr degrees they use greek and hebrew but break the meaning down to a level of understanding. granted no man has sen God Moses came close but did not not see him in fullness of statue .

you need break it down to a bottom shelf level. all this stuff you posted trying to prove your point.. does not impress me.

 

[Ezra]

Sorry bro, but 1 Timothy 3:16 is scripture; God’s word.


Your theology is little more that just denial of scripture.


You are is a dangerous frame of mind.


Please spend some time humbling yourself and repenting before the Lord.

not so much a dangerous state of mind.. i think he is trying to impress i been on another board with you.. you like play hard ball..

 

[brightfame52]

And guess what our message should be , TO be saved YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS CHRIST .

Which believing is given by God, its the work of God