The Holy Spirit was the second, and Jesus was the first. Is this not clear to you from all the scripture you quoted above?brakelite said:
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No, the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit and Jesus is Jesus and the Father is the father, hence the triune nature of God, which I know you have a hard time with, but that doesn't mean it is not so. Jesus said another comforter, if he was the first, he's not sending himself.brakelite said:
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; (see Heb.13:5)StanJ said:
17 Even the Spirit of truth; (see John 14:6) whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Maybe the Amplified Bible will help you, as it seems you're not really understanding the KJV?brakelite said:
16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby), to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive [and take to its heart] because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He (the Holy Spirit) remains with you continually and will be in you.
18 “I will not leave you as orphans [comfortless, bereaved, and helpless]; I will come [back] to you.
jaybird
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i think the Holy Spirit is the power of the Father. when Jesus did miracles He always said it wasnt Him but the power of the Father. when they accused Jesus of doing these things by the power of evil He told them not to blasphemy the Holy Spirit.
You're getting warm, but you can't blaspeme something that is not deity, and Jesus made it clear they were very close to doing so. In fact Jesus said that speaking against him would be forgivable but speaking against the Holy Spirit would be blasphemy and not be forgivable. I'm sure you'll acknowledge that Jesus was God incarnate, so how exactly do you figure speaking against him would be forgivable but speaking against the Holy Spirit would not be? Doesn't that indicate to you that the Holy Spirit was indeed also God but in a more holy way as his name implies?jaybird said:
The Holy Spirit comes directly from the Father...Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.StanJ said:
The Holy Spirit comes to us from the Father, but through Jesus Christ...Titius 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
The Spirit in us is the Spirit of the Father...Matt.10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
The Spirit of God is not just that of the Father, but also of Christ...Rom. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The Spirit of Christ was also the same SPirit by which the OT prophets spoke...1 Peter 1:10 ¶ Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow....
because the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy...Revl.19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Because the Father desires we know we are children of God, Gal.4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father....for who else other than a real Son (not a third person) could testify to being a brother and cry with us Abba, Father!
Jesus is Truth and Life...(John 14:6) so also is the Holy Spirit (John 14:17;Romans 8:2.)
The Comforter is Himself in the form of Spirit, being His Spirit....John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
2 Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Coll. 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Eph. 3:14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
So, who is the Holy Spirit....?
2 Cor. 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
The Origin of the Trinity Doctrine.
It was about a century after Tertullian when Arianism began causing so many disputes that Constantine convened the first ecumenical Council in Church history to settle them. Arius was an elder in the Alexandrian Church in the early fourth century that taught Christ truly is the begotten Son of God and why God is called His Father to state the obvious. A real Father and Son in other words. Opposing the teachings of Arius was Athanasius, a deacon also from Alexandria. His view was an early form of Trinitarianism where the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are said to be all the same one god but distinct from each other making it impossible for them to be a real Father and Son. His view was a further but deteriorating change to what Tertullian believed with the Holy Spirit not yet claimed to be a literal being. That came later. Mainstream history states Arius taught Christ was created, but the Church burnt what Arius believed and some historians claim they altered records and falsely rumoured that he taught Christ was created in order to discredit him. The Catholic Church is known for creating false historical records to their interpretation of events to hide the real truth at times. Consider the following for instance.
The view of Athanasius was highly influenced by Origen who was a Greek philosopher and theologian who reinterpreted Christian doctrine through the philosophy of Neoplatonism. His work was later condemned as unorthodox. Origen taught the doctrine of Purgatory, transubstantiation, transmigration and reincarnation of the soul, the Holy Spirit was a feminine force, Jesus was only a created being, there would be no physical resurrection, the creation account in Genesis is a fictitious story and is known to have publicly castrated himself based on Matthew 19. Arius on the other hand was a pupil of Lucian of Antioch. Lucian was responsible for the work that gave us what is known as the Textus Receptus which was completed by Erasmus, and is what gave us the trusted New Testament of the KJV Bible. These and other facts reveal that Athanasius was influenced by Greek philosophy and that Arius probably taught Biblical truth despite mainstream history.
Some believe Constantine was the first Christian Roman Emperor but he was actually a sun worshiper who was baptized on his deathbed. During his reign he had his eldest son and his wife murdered. His belief at best was a blend of paganism and Christianity for political purposes, and so he neither cared nor really understood this dispute but was just eager to bring the controversy to a close and keep unity in his empire. When the bishops gathered at Nicea on May 20, 325 AD to resolve the crisis, very few shared Athanasius's view of Christ as most held a position midway between Athanasius and Arius. The religious debates lasted two months before the Council rejected the minority view of Arius, but having no alternative, Constantine approved the view of Athanasius, which was also a minority view. And so the Church was left supporting a belief held by only a minority of those attending. The Encyclopedia Britannica states: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed ... the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council ... Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.” — (1971 edition, Vol. 6, “Constantine,” p. 386)
Horrific religious persecution followed the decision made by Constantine who was essentially a pagan Emperor who imposed an invented creed never preached by Jesus. Constantine exiled those who refused to accept the creed as well as the bishops who signed the creed but refused to join in condemnation of Arius. He also ordered all copies of the Thalia to be burned, which was the book in which Arius expressed his teachings. But several years later Constantine became lenient toward those he condemned and exiled at the council and allowed them to return. In AD 335, they brought accusations against Athanasius and so now Constantine had Athanasius banished! This was not about Biblical truth. As a pagan sun worshipper, Constantine also enforced the first Sunday law just four years earlier and hence played a major role in bringing two pagan traditions into the Church. It was four hundred years after the cross when they formulated this creed that never existed before hand, and so the Apostles and the early Church could never have taught it either.
Many of the Bishops who formulated the doctrine of the trinity were steeped in Greek and Platonic philosophy, which influenced their religious views. In fact the language they used in defining the trinity is taken directly from Platonic and Greek philosophy. The Platonic term trias, meaning three, was Latinized as trinitas, which gave us the English word trinity which is neither biblical nor Christian. As Bible scholars John McClintock and James Strong (wrote the famous Strong's Concordance) explain, “Towards the end of the 1st century, and during the 2nd, many learned men came over both from Judaism and paganism to Christianity. These brought with them into the Christian schools of theology their Platonic ideas and phraseology.” — (Cyclopaedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, 1891, Vol. 10, “Trinity,” p. 553)
So the trinity was not derived from scripture but was conceived in philosophy. Greek philosophers were greatly influenced by Plato (427-347 BC) who was considered the greatest of all Greek philosophers. Plato was ingrained with Trinitarian thought and knew that all the ancient religions had triad deities, and so he desired to come up with a better definition to define God above all the deities of Greek mythology. Plato's definition of God was, (1) The “first God,” who was the Supreme Being in the universe; (2) the “second God,” whom Plato described as the “soul of the universe”; and (3) the “third God,” defined as the “spirit.” The Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria (15 BC-AD 50) who followed Greek philosophy was influenced by Plato's version and saw God as, (1) Father, who created all things (Philo named him “the Demiurge”), (2) Mother, who was Knowledge the Maker possessed and (3) the Beloved Son was the world. Supposedly the union of demiurge and knowledge produced man's world. This esoteric type of thinking is what led to the birth and development of the trinity.
And so the Council of Nicea did not end the controversy and the bishops went on teaching as they had before, and the Arian crisis continued for another sixty years. Athanasius was exiled no fewer than five times and it was very difficult to make his creed stick. The ongoing disputes were violent and bloody at times. Noted historian Will Durant writes, “Probably more Christians were slaughtered by Christians in these two years (342-3) than by all the persecutions of Christians by pagans in the history of Rome.” — (The Story of Civilization, Vol. 4: The Age of Faith, 1950, p. 8). So Christians fought and slaughtered one another over their differing views of God.
So after Constantine's death in 337 AD, disputes continued. Constantine's son Constantius II favoured the Arians and set out to reverse the Nicene Creed. Constantius used his power to exile bishops adhering to the Nicene Creed and especially Athanasius who fled to Rome. The debates resulted in numerous councils. Among them the Council of Sardica in 343 AD, the Council of Sirmium in 358 AD and the double Council of Rimini and Seleucia in 359 AD, and no fewer than fourteen further creed formulas between 340 and 360 AD. After Constantius' death in 361 AD, his successor Julian, who was a devotee of Rome's pagan gods, declared that he would no longer favor one Church faction over another and allowed all exiled bishops to return, which resulted in further increasing dissension among Christians.
Disputes eventually became over the nature of the Holy Spirit. So 44 years after Constantine's death in May 381 AD, Emperor Theodosius, baptized only a year earlier, convened the Council of Constantinople to resolve them. Theodosius favoured the Nicene Creed and so after he arrived in Constantinople he expelled the bishop Demophilus, and surrendered the Churches there to Gregory of Nazianzus who was the leader of a small Nicene community there and one of three men that became known as “the three Cappadocians.” These three men had an agenda at this council which was for the first time to push the idea of the Holy Spirit being a literal being. Gregory was recently appointed as archbishop of Constantinople, but due to illness, Nectarius, an elderly city senator had to take over the role of archbishop and presided over the council. And so Nectarius was baptized for the job and the Trinitarian view on the Holy Spirit was governed by someone with little or no knowledge of theology! What resulted became known as the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed where they now decided that the Holy Spirit was a literal being. Any who disagreed were in accordance with the edicts of the emperor and Church authorities branded heretics and dealt with accordingly. This final teaching on the nature of God is what became the trinity as generally understood today. It was not decided so much from Scripture but from Greek philosophy, much bloodshed and whoever had the most power.
So in short, when Babylon was conquered, most of the Babylonian Priests took their pagan teachings to Alexandria which resulted in the school of Alexandria. The Alexandrines incorporated Greek Pagan philosophical beliefs from Plato's teachings into Christianity (Neoplatonism), and interpreted much of the Bible allegorically. Lucian rejected this system entirely and propounded a system of literal interpretation that dominated the Eastern Church for a long period. Thus Origen taught the allegorical method of explanation of Scripture that Athanasius and the three Cappadocians learned from, which was influenced by Plato and strong pagan theological speculations, which gave us the trinity doctrine.
“The Alexandria catechetical school, which revered Clement of Alexandria and Origen, the greatest theologian of the Greek Church, as its heads, applied the allegorical method to the explanation of Scripture. Its thought was influenced by Plato: its strong point was [pagan] theological speculations. Athanasius and the three Cappadocians [the men whose Trinitarian views were adopted by the Catholic Church at the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople] had been included among its members.” — (Hubert Jedin, Ecumenical Councils of the Catholic Church: an Historical Outline, 1960, p. 28)
It was about a century after Tertullian when Arianism began causing so many disputes that Constantine convened the first ecumenical Council in Church history to settle them. Arius was an elder in the Alexandrian Church in the early fourth century that taught Christ truly is the begotten Son of God and why God is called His Father to state the obvious. A real Father and Son in other words. Opposing the teachings of Arius was Athanasius, a deacon also from Alexandria. His view was an early form of Trinitarianism where the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are said to be all the same one god but distinct from each other making it impossible for them to be a real Father and Son. His view was a further but deteriorating change to what Tertullian believed with the Holy Spirit not yet claimed to be a literal being. That came later. Mainstream history states Arius taught Christ was created, but the Church burnt what Arius believed and some historians claim they altered records and falsely rumoured that he taught Christ was created in order to discredit him. The Catholic Church is known for creating false historical records to their interpretation of events to hide the real truth at times. Consider the following for instance.
The view of Athanasius was highly influenced by Origen who was a Greek philosopher and theologian who reinterpreted Christian doctrine through the philosophy of Neoplatonism. His work was later condemned as unorthodox. Origen taught the doctrine of Purgatory, transubstantiation, transmigration and reincarnation of the soul, the Holy Spirit was a feminine force, Jesus was only a created being, there would be no physical resurrection, the creation account in Genesis is a fictitious story and is known to have publicly castrated himself based on Matthew 19. Arius on the other hand was a pupil of Lucian of Antioch. Lucian was responsible for the work that gave us what is known as the Textus Receptus which was completed by Erasmus, and is what gave us the trusted New Testament of the KJV Bible. These and other facts reveal that Athanasius was influenced by Greek philosophy and that Arius probably taught Biblical truth despite mainstream history.
Some believe Constantine was the first Christian Roman Emperor but he was actually a sun worshiper who was baptized on his deathbed. During his reign he had his eldest son and his wife murdered. His belief at best was a blend of paganism and Christianity for political purposes, and so he neither cared nor really understood this dispute but was just eager to bring the controversy to a close and keep unity in his empire. When the bishops gathered at Nicea on May 20, 325 AD to resolve the crisis, very few shared Athanasius's view of Christ as most held a position midway between Athanasius and Arius. The religious debates lasted two months before the Council rejected the minority view of Arius, but having no alternative, Constantine approved the view of Athanasius, which was also a minority view. And so the Church was left supporting a belief held by only a minority of those attending. The Encyclopedia Britannica states: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed ... the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council ... Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.” — (1971 edition, Vol. 6, “Constantine,” p. 386)
Horrific religious persecution followed the decision made by Constantine who was essentially a pagan Emperor who imposed an invented creed never preached by Jesus. Constantine exiled those who refused to accept the creed as well as the bishops who signed the creed but refused to join in condemnation of Arius. He also ordered all copies of the Thalia to be burned, which was the book in which Arius expressed his teachings. But several years later Constantine became lenient toward those he condemned and exiled at the council and allowed them to return. In AD 335, they brought accusations against Athanasius and so now Constantine had Athanasius banished! This was not about Biblical truth. As a pagan sun worshipper, Constantine also enforced the first Sunday law just four years earlier and hence played a major role in bringing two pagan traditions into the Church. It was four hundred years after the cross when they formulated this creed that never existed before hand, and so the Apostles and the early Church could never have taught it either.
Many of the Bishops who formulated the doctrine of the trinity were steeped in Greek and Platonic philosophy, which influenced their religious views. In fact the language they used in defining the trinity is taken directly from Platonic and Greek philosophy. The Platonic term trias, meaning three, was Latinized as trinitas, which gave us the English word trinity which is neither biblical nor Christian. As Bible scholars John McClintock and James Strong (wrote the famous Strong's Concordance) explain, “Towards the end of the 1st century, and during the 2nd, many learned men came over both from Judaism and paganism to Christianity. These brought with them into the Christian schools of theology their Platonic ideas and phraseology.” — (Cyclopaedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, 1891, Vol. 10, “Trinity,” p. 553)
So the trinity was not derived from scripture but was conceived in philosophy. Greek philosophers were greatly influenced by Plato (427-347 BC) who was considered the greatest of all Greek philosophers. Plato was ingrained with Trinitarian thought and knew that all the ancient religions had triad deities, and so he desired to come up with a better definition to define God above all the deities of Greek mythology. Plato's definition of God was, (1) The “first God,” who was the Supreme Being in the universe; (2) the “second God,” whom Plato described as the “soul of the universe”; and (3) the “third God,” defined as the “spirit.” The Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria (15 BC-AD 50) who followed Greek philosophy was influenced by Plato's version and saw God as, (1) Father, who created all things (Philo named him “the Demiurge”), (2) Mother, who was Knowledge the Maker possessed and (3) the Beloved Son was the world. Supposedly the union of demiurge and knowledge produced man's world. This esoteric type of thinking is what led to the birth and development of the trinity.
And so the Council of Nicea did not end the controversy and the bishops went on teaching as they had before, and the Arian crisis continued for another sixty years. Athanasius was exiled no fewer than five times and it was very difficult to make his creed stick. The ongoing disputes were violent and bloody at times. Noted historian Will Durant writes, “Probably more Christians were slaughtered by Christians in these two years (342-3) than by all the persecutions of Christians by pagans in the history of Rome.” — (The Story of Civilization, Vol. 4: The Age of Faith, 1950, p. 8). So Christians fought and slaughtered one another over their differing views of God.
So after Constantine's death in 337 AD, disputes continued. Constantine's son Constantius II favoured the Arians and set out to reverse the Nicene Creed. Constantius used his power to exile bishops adhering to the Nicene Creed and especially Athanasius who fled to Rome. The debates resulted in numerous councils. Among them the Council of Sardica in 343 AD, the Council of Sirmium in 358 AD and the double Council of Rimini and Seleucia in 359 AD, and no fewer than fourteen further creed formulas between 340 and 360 AD. After Constantius' death in 361 AD, his successor Julian, who was a devotee of Rome's pagan gods, declared that he would no longer favor one Church faction over another and allowed all exiled bishops to return, which resulted in further increasing dissension among Christians.
Disputes eventually became over the nature of the Holy Spirit. So 44 years after Constantine's death in May 381 AD, Emperor Theodosius, baptized only a year earlier, convened the Council of Constantinople to resolve them. Theodosius favoured the Nicene Creed and so after he arrived in Constantinople he expelled the bishop Demophilus, and surrendered the Churches there to Gregory of Nazianzus who was the leader of a small Nicene community there and one of three men that became known as “the three Cappadocians.” These three men had an agenda at this council which was for the first time to push the idea of the Holy Spirit being a literal being. Gregory was recently appointed as archbishop of Constantinople, but due to illness, Nectarius, an elderly city senator had to take over the role of archbishop and presided over the council. And so Nectarius was baptized for the job and the Trinitarian view on the Holy Spirit was governed by someone with little or no knowledge of theology! What resulted became known as the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed where they now decided that the Holy Spirit was a literal being. Any who disagreed were in accordance with the edicts of the emperor and Church authorities branded heretics and dealt with accordingly. This final teaching on the nature of God is what became the trinity as generally understood today. It was not decided so much from Scripture but from Greek philosophy, much bloodshed and whoever had the most power.
So in short, when Babylon was conquered, most of the Babylonian Priests took their pagan teachings to Alexandria which resulted in the school of Alexandria. The Alexandrines incorporated Greek Pagan philosophical beliefs from Plato's teachings into Christianity (Neoplatonism), and interpreted much of the Bible allegorically. Lucian rejected this system entirely and propounded a system of literal interpretation that dominated the Eastern Church for a long period. Thus Origen taught the allegorical method of explanation of Scripture that Athanasius and the three Cappadocians learned from, which was influenced by Plato and strong pagan theological speculations, which gave us the trinity doctrine.
“The Alexandria catechetical school, which revered Clement of Alexandria and Origen, the greatest theologian of the Greek Church, as its heads, applied the allegorical method to the explanation of Scripture. Its thought was influenced by Plato: its strong point was [pagan] theological speculations. Athanasius and the three Cappadocians [the men whose Trinitarian views were adopted by the Catholic Church at the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople] had been included among its members.” — (Hubert Jedin, Ecumenical Councils of the Catholic Church: an Historical Outline, 1960, p. 28)
As usual your point seems to get lost in your verboseness. Acts 2:33 does not say what you purport it to say. You forget that Jesus himself said I will ask the father and he will send another advocate. Cherry picking individual verses out of context never works brakelite, and you should know this. The Holy Spirit is an advocate just as Jesus was and they are both part of the Triune Godhead expressed in physical and spiritual nature.brakelite said:
You're just basically regurgitating the same old stuff you always do. Nothing new here so there's nothing more I can really comment on.
I can't be bothered playing dueling copy and paste articles with you. If you can't support your point of view out of scripture as I have, then posting this type of drivel won't help one iota.brakelite said:
justaname
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Both of these quotes are unsupported and speculative.
"Mainstream history states Arius taught Christ was created, but the Church burnt what Arius believed and some historians claim they altered records and falsely rumoured that he taught Christ was created in order to discredit him. The Catholic Church is known for creating false historical records to their interpretation of events to hide the real truth at times."
"Origen taught the doctrine of Purgatory, transubstantiation, transmigration and reincarnation of the soul, the Holy Spirit was a feminine force, Jesus was only a created being, there would be no physical resurrection, the creation account in Genesis is a fictitious story and is known to have publicly castrated himself based on Matthew 19."
Other statements about Origen above I would look further into also before just taking them for fact.
This conclusion here is again speculative. The "probably" here speaks volumes.
"Arius on the other hand was a pupil of Lucian of Antioch. Lucian was responsible for the work that gave us what is known as the Textus Receptus which was completed by Erasmus, and is what gave us the trusted New Testament of the KJV Bible. These and other facts reveal that Athanasius was influenced by Greek philosophy and that Arius probably taught Biblical truth despite mainstream history."
In finality God knows the condition of Constantine's heart, not men reading back into history.
"Some believe Constantine was the first Christian Roman Emperor but he was actually a sun worshiper who was baptized on his deathbed."
I would look into more sources regarding this speculative statement...
The Encyclopedia Britannica states: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed ... the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council ... Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.” — (1971 edition, Vol. 6, “Constantine,” p. 386)
Another conclusion that is not substantiated...
"So the trinity was not derived from scripture but was conceived in philosophy."
I am not convinced of all these conclusions that are simply stated matter of fact style without any real support.
"Mainstream history states Arius taught Christ was created, but the Church burnt what Arius believed and some historians claim they altered records and falsely rumoured that he taught Christ was created in order to discredit him. The Catholic Church is known for creating false historical records to their interpretation of events to hide the real truth at times."
"Origen taught the doctrine of Purgatory, transubstantiation, transmigration and reincarnation of the soul, the Holy Spirit was a feminine force, Jesus was only a created being, there would be no physical resurrection, the creation account in Genesis is a fictitious story and is known to have publicly castrated himself based on Matthew 19."
Other statements about Origen above I would look further into also before just taking them for fact.
This conclusion here is again speculative. The "probably" here speaks volumes.
"Arius on the other hand was a pupil of Lucian of Antioch. Lucian was responsible for the work that gave us what is known as the Textus Receptus which was completed by Erasmus, and is what gave us the trusted New Testament of the KJV Bible. These and other facts reveal that Athanasius was influenced by Greek philosophy and that Arius probably taught Biblical truth despite mainstream history."
In finality God knows the condition of Constantine's heart, not men reading back into history.
"Some believe Constantine was the first Christian Roman Emperor but he was actually a sun worshiper who was baptized on his deathbed."
I would look into more sources regarding this speculative statement...
The Encyclopedia Britannica states: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed ... the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council ... Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.” — (1971 edition, Vol. 6, “Constantine,” p. 386)
Another conclusion that is not substantiated...
"So the trinity was not derived from scripture but was conceived in philosophy."
I am not convinced of all these conclusions that are simply stated matter of fact style without any real support.
Yes, this is all hearsay and innuendo but what exactly is your purpose for posting this if you don't actually accept it as fact. Is it designed to just sow doubt in the minds of Believers of our tribune God?justaname said:
jaybird
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i always thought this doctrine was incorporated into Christianity to make the romans adjust to it more easily. the roman/ greek system was similar to and most likely rooted in the babalon/egyptian system which all had trinities at the top. the babalon/egyptian is closely related to the Canaanite system. many academics believe the canaanite system had a trinity as well.brakelite said:
justaname
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Then tell me Stan how is this question warranted when I obviously question the conclusions of the historical accuracy of the author in Brakelite's post.StanJ said:
"Is it designed to just sow doubt in the minds of Believers of our tribune God?"
Explain your conclusions here please.
Well if you do then why you asking me about my question. Does my post not indicate that I don't believe the historical accuracy of brakelite's post, are you just looking to pick a fight?justaname said:
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