IS JESUS WITH TWO OR THREE OF US?

[Doug]

[Mat 18:18-20 KJV] 18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

This passage can not be claimed for us. Jesus gave these provisions to the disciples.

[Mat 18:15-17 KJV] 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

I believe the opening verses of Matthew 18:18-20 are to be taken in context with the above verses.

Jesus was instructing believing Israel about forgiveness.

Jesus told them he would be in agreement with how they loosed (forgave) sin in an unrepentant believer. They would be in his place while he went away.

[Mat 18:35 KJV] 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

The last verse above encapsulates his teaching on forgiveness; to be forgiven, they had to forgive.

 

[Behold]

The last verse above encapsulates his teaching on forgiveness;

Your verse is Jesus explaining "forgive to be forgiven"......under the LAW.........speaking to unsaved JEWS.

Whereas.......Paul teaches CHRISTIANS.... that now that we are Eternally FORGIVEN... and are "not under the Law but under GRACE".......so...we are to forgive = because we are already forgiven.

 

[PS95]

Your verse is Jesus explaining "forgive to be forgiven"......under the LAW.........speaking to unsaved JEWS.

Whereas.......Paul teaches CHRISTIANS.... that now that we are Eternally FORGIVEN... and are "not under the Law but under GRACE".......so...we are to forgive = because we are already forgiven.

We are eternally forgiven if we repent of our sins and walk in the Spirit.

For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. 8So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
1 Thes 4:2-8

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, / nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. --1 Cor 6

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; / idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, / and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. --Galatians 5:19-21

But among you, as is proper among the saints, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed. / Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking, which are out of character, but rather thanksgiving. / For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Eph 5:3-5

For it is God’s will that you should be holy: You must abstain from sexual immorality; / each of you must know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, / not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God; 1 Thes 4:3-5

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires. / Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. Ro 6:12-13

For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Ro 8:13

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. --Colossians 3:5

Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? Ro 6:16


Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. / Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh. Ro 13

Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, together with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Tim 2:22

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Ro 6:6

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. Ro 6:13

 

[Behold]

We are eternally forgiven if we repent of our sins and walk in the Spirit.

You have no understanding of why Jesus died on the Cross, and your post just proved it again.

Listen..

A SINNER is forgiven, by the Sacrifice of Jesus on The Cross.
This is why Jesus told you in John 14:6 that He is "THE ONLY WAY to the FATHER".

Its Christ's Blood and DEATH FREELY offered to God for your sin, that forgives your sin.

John 3:16-17

Your "repenting and your stupid self righteousness, your works and obedience", did not save you, and can not save you.

Only JESUS SAVES....... fella.

Listen, if you have your sin, then Jesus hasn't died for it yet, so you are not a Christian.

Understand? @PS95

 

[PS95]

You have no understanding of why Jesus died on the Cross, and your post just proved it again.

Listen..

A SINNER is forgiven, by the Sacrifice of Jesus on The Cross.
This is why Jesus told you in John 14:6 that He is "THE ONLY WAY to the FATHER".

Its Christ's Blood and DEATH FREELY offered to God for your sin, that forgives your sin.

John 3:16-17

Your "repenting and your stupid self righteousness, your works and obedience", did not save you, and can not save you.

Only JESUS SAVES....... fella.

Listen, if you have your sin, then Jesus hasn't died for it yet, so you are not a Christian.

Understand? @PS95

If I have no understanding and YOU DO. Then explain these to all of us since we are so stupid and self righteous...


For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. 8So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
1 Thes 4:2-8

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, / nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. --1 Cor 6

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; / idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, / and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. --Galatians 5:19-21

But among you, as is proper among the saints, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed. / Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking, which are out of character, but rather thanksgiving. / For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Eph 5:3-5

For it is God’s will that you should be holy: You must abstain from sexual immorality; / each of you must know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, / not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God; 1 Thes 4:3-5

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires. / Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. Ro 6:12-13

For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Ro 8:13

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. --Colossians 3:5

Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? Ro 6:16


Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. / Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh. Ro 13

Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, together with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Tim 2:22

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Ro 6:6

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. Ro 6:13

 

[Behold]

If I have no understanding and YOU DO. Then explain these to all of us since we are so stupid and self righteous...

Ive not said you are stupid, but you are apparently gaining momentum by being unable to do anything but "cut and paste" verses you can't understand.

So, the best way forward for you, @PS95 ...is to ask a question....that enlists a discussion, vs, just posting "cut and past" random verses over and over.

 

[PS95]

Ive not said you are stupid, but you are apparently gaining momentum by being unable to do anything but "cut and paste" verses you can't understand.

So, the best way forward for you, @PS95 ...is to ask a question....that enlists a discussion, vs, just posting "cut and past" random verses over and over.

You avoid the many passages of PAUL by calling them a cut and paste. Are they IN YOUR BIBLE?
IT appears you do not read your bible, Behold. This is awful. You are misrepresenting the Gospel of PAUL... as you call it. I have asked you questions now many times!! You refused to answer every time.! It is all over the forum. You are simply regurgitating false teachings like a broken record. I am trying to help you to see the error.. We are to OBEY and we are to REPENT. This is the will of God in Christ. This is called our sanctification- we are being made holy. How many time do I need to type this?
IF behavior doesn't matter and no repenting is ever needed after accepting Christ, then why does Paul disagree with you? If a believer is practing those things below what should he do?--- REPENT?
-- or just say my sins are all ok since Jesus died for my sins.. ? NO!
You make Jesus a minister of sins!!
This is just prideful behavior and that's not good, Behold. Pride is of the world. Accept this correction in love, Behold. It's OK to be mistaken. We are all growing. We are to OBEY and we are to REPENT. This is the will of God.
---------------------
But among you, as is proper among the saints, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed. / Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking, which are out of character, but rather thanksgiving. / For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Eph 5:3-5

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, / nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. --1 Cor 6

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; / idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, / and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. --Galatians 5:19-21

For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. 8So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
1 Thes 4:2-8

For it is God’s will that you should be holy: You must abstain from sexual immorality; / each of you must know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, / not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God; 1 Thes 4:3-5

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires. / Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. Ro 6:12-13

For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Ro 8:13

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. --Colossians 3:5

Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? Ro 6:16


Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. / Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh. Ro 13

Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, together with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Tim 2:22

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Ro 6:6

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. Ro 6:13

There are others if you need them, ask.

 

[Doug]

Your verse is Jesus explaining "forgive to be forgiven"......under the LAW.........speaking to unsaved JEWS.

Whereas.......Paul teaches CHRISTIANS.... that now that we are Eternally FORGIVEN... and are "not under the Law but under GRACE".......so...we are to forgive = because we are already forgiven.

Right

The only thing to consider is it might be directed to saved Jews...............Jesus talks about going to the church Matthew 18:15-17

 

[Behold]

Right

The only thing to consider is it might be directed to saved Jews...............Jesus talks about going to the church Matthew 18:15-17

Doug,

Paul teaches us that "rightly dividing" the word is how we are to get the revelation.

So, a must do is.......... when we read a verse, that is written that came before the Cross of Christ was Raised, we must evaluate all those verses, in Light of THE Cross.
We must realize.......>"now, is the verse going to work for CHRISTIANITY ? How does this verse fit the body of Christ, as doctrine for the church, now that The Cross of Christ has changed everything....
Is this JESUS verse aimed at JEWS?.......So, if it is, how does it FIT into Christianity.....or not., And if not, then NOT.........dont try to make it church doctrine, as its not.

= "rightly DIVIDE"

 

[Doug]

Doug,

Paul teaches us that "rightly dividing" the word is how we are to get the revelation.

So, a must do is.......... when we read a verse, that is written that came before the Cross of Christ was Raised, we must evaluate all those verses, in Light of THE Cross.
We must realize.......>"now, is the verse going to work for CHRISTIANITY ? How does this verse fit the body of Christ, as doctrine for the church, now that The Cross of Christ has changed everything....
Is this JESUS verse aimed at JEWS?.......So, if it is, how does it FIT into Christianity.....or not., And if not, then NOT.........dont try to make it church doctrine, as its not.

= "rightly DIVIDE"

I was not saying the church the body of Christ

Jesus was talking to believing Israel under the law .....the church composed of the believing remnant of Israel.....the church Paul persecuted

 

[Jack]

"IS JESUS WITH TWO OR THREE OF US?"

Of course, if we believe in Him!