Is Michael Another Name For Jesus?

[Taken]

Point taken, Stunned!
I've never heard of a forum that didn't discuss who God IS!

Discussion is one thing ...prove to me what you believe is entirely another thing.

Jesus spoke about what He called noble men...which were they Who:

Acts 17:
[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[Keturah]

Disappointed in OP's belief !

 

[FactsPlease]

Discussion is one thing ...prove to me what you believe is entirely another thing.

Jesus spoke about what He called noble men...which were they Who:

Acts 17:
[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I can- IF you believe the Bible.
But I'm afraid I'll be banned.

 

[Mr E]

St. Michael the Archangel = Jesus is a Jehovah's Witness invention.

It's also the theological perspective of Seventh Day Adventists. Who else? -It's a much talked about position of those who hold to the Urantia Book.

Others? How about Baptists and Methodists--?

Baptist preacher Charles H. Spurgeon (1834-1892) a Baptist minister and highly esteemed -regarding angels, based on Hebrews 1:14, and speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ:

“He it is whose camp is round about them that fear Him; He is the true Michael whose foot is upon the dragon. All hail, Jesus! thou Angel of Jehovah’s presence, to Thee this family offers its morning vows.”

From a Spurgeon sermon ‘The Angelic Life’ comes this partial quote:

“Our Lord is called an angel. He is the angel of the covenant... We read that Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels, and the dragon was cast down. The fight is going on every day. Michael is the Lord Jesus, the only Archangel.”

John Gill, a Baptist pastor (circa 1750) wrote this about Michael the Archangel based on Jude 1:9:

"Yet Michael the Archangel.... By whom is meant, not a created angel, but an eternal one, the Lord Jesus Christ;”

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I can- IF you believe the Bible.
But I'm afraid I'll be banned.

You won’t be banned if you guys want to have that conversation in the unorthodox forum.

 

[Taken]

I can- IF you believe the Bible.
But I'm afraid I'll be banned.

You can search the Scriptures?
You can determined if what you hear is True?
But if you do those things you fear you will be banned from this forum?

What nonsense. No this forum does not ban people for searching the scriptures or determine what they Heard is true.

 

[FactsPlease]

It's verbotten to discuss Jesus 'divinity'.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Discussion is one thing ...prove to me what you believe is entirely another thing.

Jesus spoke about what He called noble men...which were they Who:

Acts 17:
[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I can- IF you believe the Bible.
But I'm afraid I'll be banned.

@Taken and I BOTH 'believe The Bible!' And:

one or BOTH of us will meet you in the '[removed] forum, IF you wish =

you won't get banned there

 

[Adventageous]

St. Michael the Archangel = Jesus is a Jehovah's Witness invention.

That is an incorrect statement. The idea that Michael is another designation for the Son of God (aka Jesus) was around long before the WTS/JW twisted the theology (having gone half way back unto Roman Catholicism).

Melito of Sardis stated:

Melito of Sardis (wrote AD 165 – AD 175, died c. AD 180) was the bishop of Sardis near Smyrna in western Anatolia.

Cureton's Spicilegium Syriacum, contaning remains of Bardeson, Meliton, Ambrose and Mara Bar Serapion. Now first edited, with an English translation and notes, by the Rev. William Cureton, M.A. F.R.S. Chaplain in Ordinary to the Queen, Rector of St. Margaret's, and Canon of Westminster. London: Francis and John Rivington, St. Paul's Churchyard and Waterloo Place. 1855.​

"... [Page 53] From Meliton the Bishop; On Faith.​

​

We have made collections from the Law and the Prophets relative to those things which have been declared respecting our Lord Jesus Christ, that we may prove to your love, that He is perfect reason, the Word of God; who was begotten before the light; who was Creator together with the Father; who was the fashioner of man; who was all in all; who among the Patriarchs was Patriarch; who in the law was the Law; among the priests Chief priest; amongst kings Governor; among prophets the Prophet; among the angels Archangel; in the Voice the Word; among spirits Spirit; in the Father the Son; in God God- the king forever and ever. For this was He who was pilot to Noah; who conducted Abraham; who was bound with Isaac, who was in exile with Jacob, who was sold with Joseph, who was captain with Moses; who was the divider of the inheritance with Jesus the Son of Nun, who in David and the prophets foretold his own sufferings, who was incarnate in the Virgin, who was born at Bethlehem, (33) who was wrapped in swaddling clothes in the manger, who was seen of the shepherd, who was glorified of the angels, who was worshipped of the Magi, who was pointed out by John, who assembled the Apostles, who preached the kingdom, who healed the maimed, who gave light to the blind, who raised the dead, who appeared in the temple, who was not believed on by the people, who was betrayed by [Page 53-54] Judas, who was laid hold on by the priests, who was condemned by Pilate, who was transfixed in the flesh, who was hanged upon the tree, who was buried in the earth, who rose from the dead, who appeared to the Apostles, who ascended to heaven, who sitteth on the right hand of the Father, who is the rest of those that are departed, the recoverer of those who were lost, the light of those who are in darkness, the deliverer of those who are captives, the guide of those who have gone astray, the refuge of the afflicted, the bridegroom of the Church, the charioteer of the Cherubim, the captain of the angels, God who is of God, the Son who is of the Father, Jesus Christ, the King for ever and ever. Amen. ..." [Pages 53-54] - Spicilegium Syriacum: containing remains of Bardesan, Meliton, Ambrose and Mara Bar Serapion. Now first edited, with an English translation and notes : Cureton, William, 1808-1864 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​

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Spicilegium Syriacum: containing remains of Bardesan, Meliton, Ambrose and Mara Bar Serapion. Now first edited, with an English translation and notes : Cureton, William, 1808-1864 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

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archive.org

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To which "Archangel" do you think Melito referred to, in reference to Jesus Christ? Surely not Gabriel?​

Many others stated in sermon and in print, long before the WTS/JW organization existed, that Michael was another designation for the Son (aka Jesus) of God the Father.

You may see that evidence here:

Michael The Archangel Files : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Michael The Archangel FilesYOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCplWZcKcFd1tNbHYPS-5t9wINTERNET ARCHIVE: ...

archive.org

An image here:

 

[marks]

Revelation 1:4-5 KJV
4) John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

It seems like a silly question, but here goes . . . of whom does this speak?

Is this passage true, or is it false? Another silly seeming question, but considering what some are saying, appropriate, I think!

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It speaks of Jesus. They just think Michael is also Jesus

 

[Adventageous]

Wednesday 11-9-22 4th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Cheshvan 13, 5783 49th. Fall Day The Earliest mention of Michael is in the 3rd, century BC apocalypse in the book of Enoch, this list of him as one of the seven angels, Uriel, Raguel, Raphael, Sariel, Gabriel, and Remiel. Michael is mentioned...

This is incorrect. The earliest mention of Michael (the Archangel) is not from an apocryphal source (such as the so-called (pseudopigraphical) first book of Enoch, there are 3 known versions btw), but rather the earliest source, is found in Daniel 10:13,21, which was written sometime in the 3rd year of King Cyrus II (circa 536-5 BC). The Dead Sea Scrolls confirm that Daniel was written at such a time as given, as well as the material Cyropaedia.

There are other, and earlier mentions of Michael, in various alternative forms in the OT Hebrew, such as in Exodus 15:11 (written circa 2649 - 2769 AM (Anno Mundi)).

Dan. 10:13,21, 12:1; Exo. 15:11; 1 Kin. 8:23; Psa. 71:19; see also Deut. 33:26; 2 Chro. 6:14; Job 36:22; Psa. 35:10, 86:8, 89:8, 113:5; Jer. 10:6-7; Mic. 7:18​

The Apocryphal (and Pseudopigraphical) source of so called first Enoch, teaches a heresy of angel (created being) worship, and places Michael with equal nature to the created.

 

[Taken]

John Gill, a Baptist pastor (circa 1750) wrote this about Michael the Archangel based on Jude 1:9:

Angels are Created Spirits.
The number of holy Angels are compared to the number of stars a man can see or fathom.
Holy angels serve Gods holy purpose.

Human men are earthly body’s with souls.
A Human man with his soul can serve Gods holy purpose.
A Human that can serve God can been seen as compared to the number grains of sand a man can see or fathom.

God is omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient...and can Appear to Human in A Fashion AS an Angel or a Man...according to what a man can see and believes an Angel or man looks like.
God can be Described as, and Called...an Angel, a man, a star, a dove, a burning bush, The Father, The Son, Rabbi, LORD, Lord, King, Creator, Maker, All mighty, Power, Love, Merciful, Just, Savior, Giver, Taker, Life, Holy, Yahweh, Jehovah, Jesus, Holy One, Good, I AM....on and on

Regardless...Bottom Line...
The Lord God Almighty is Without Beginning...Without Ending.
God is never called Michael.


John Gill is in error of his conclusion.

And BTW...an individual man with far less “status” than God, as well has a numerous list of words he can be described and called.

Just sayin...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Quite a mixture of truth and church fancy you have there!
Is you Triune God there when a child, or woman is raped?

That’s the second time you’ve tried to provoke talk of the trinity. It’s not an allowed topic.

 

[FactsPlease]

It was Rhetorical.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Uh huh.

 

[Mr E]

It speaks of Jesus. They just think Michael is also Jesus

The Mormons (LDS) think that Adam is Michael (or Michael is Adam)....

Many Christians think that Melchizedek is Jesus (or Jesus is Melchizedek)

Each one of these groups have 'reasons' for believing as they do.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I didn’t say they didn’t have reasons or reasonings.

 

[Mr E]

I didn’t say they didn’t have reasons or reasonings.

You don't have to clarify what you didn't say. Do you? --Unless someone says you said something you didn't say.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Mmm…well, you quoted my post and then said they have reasons. So I replied I didn’t say that they didn’t.