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Is Most End times Speculation Futile?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Anthony D'Arienzo, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    Sermon notes from Kit Culver;

    This is the reason the prophetic witness to the kingdom has a primary focal point in the temple concept. In that day the mountain of the Lord – symbolic of His dwelling place (Exodus 15:17) – would be the greatest of all the mountains (Isaiah 2:1-3; Zechariah 8:1-3), rising and expanding to fill the whole earth (Daniel 2:31-35, 44-45; cf. also Isaiah 11:9).


    So Jerusalem (Zion) – the Lord’s symbolic throne – would be the center of the earth with all the nations and peoples coming into it (ref. again Isaiah 2:1-3, also 51:1-11, 62:1-12, 66:19-20 with Jeremiah 3:14-17, 31:1-6; Micah 4:1-7; Zechariah 8:19-23). And more narrowly, that great day would see the erecting of the Lord’s true temple with His glory filling His sanctuary forever (ref. Ezekiel 40-47, esp. 43:1-5 and 44:1-4; also Haggai 2:1-9; Zechariah 6:9-15).


    62:1-12,
    Isaiah 62 King James Version (KJV)
    62 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.

    2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

    3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.

    4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

    11 Behold, the Lord hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

    12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.


    66:19-20
    9 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

    20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.

    21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.

    22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

    23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

    24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


    The question is have these events began to be fulfilled in a way that renders most end time speculation as useless?
     
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  2. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    Almost everything today is futile. (or worse) (leading to destruction)

    Vanity, vanity, all is vanity (empty, worthless, no good, no permanence, not Godly) .
     
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  3. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    The Apostles, inspired by the Creator, writing His Word, Wrote that "we are in the last hour",
    and
    that is still truth. God's Word, as written, It is a totally sobering and unshakeable truth, reality, how short time is (as all the demons know , and tremble) .
     
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  4. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    This global salvation was to be effected through the Servant’s work of vicarious atonement (53:1-12) and, as a result of it, Zion (symbolizing Yahweh’s covenant wife who bears children for him – ref. 50:1; also Hosea 2:1-23) would be restored from her desolation. In her restoration she would then gather in the innumerable “children” of the covenant Lord secured for Him by the atoning work of His Servant (54:1-17).

    The focal point of the Servant’s work in Isaiah’s prophecy is the recovery to God of estranged mankind. But, in keeping with the fact that the curse extended to the whole creation, Isaiah showed that work of recovery to reach beyond man to embrace the entire created order. Through His Servant, Yahweh would vanquish the curse and usher in a new creation (cf. 65:1-25, 66:5-24 with 11:1-10).
     
  5. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    John was appointed by the Lord to prepare Israel for the coming of the long-awaited kingdom. And at the heart of that kingdom was the profound reality of theophany:
    The uniform prophetic message was that Yahweh Himself would inaugurate His kingdom in connection with His own personal presence in the world.

    The promise of the kingdom was the promise of Immanuel – “God with us” – and this theme is most prevalent in Isaiah’s prophecy (cf. 7:1-12:6, 19:18-25, 25:1-27:13, 32:1-20, 40:1-11, 42:1-9, 49:1-13, 59:1-20, etc.).
     
  6. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    There is a big difference between "end-time speculation" and "end-time Bible prophecies". And Christian should be able to discern that and separate the chaff from the wheat.

    A key doctrine of Scripture is the Second Coming of Christ and the establishment of the eternal Kingdom of God on earth. And that is really what end-time prophecies are all about. The events which PRECEDE the Second Coming and the events which FOLLOW the Second Coming.
     
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  7. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    Hello Enoch,

    1]What passages do you think show the Kingdom being established at the second coming, rather than already inaugurated during the first coming ?

    2] what passages do you think show the 1000yrs, ON EARTH?
     
  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    It would take a book to show you all the passages from Scripture which speak about the Kingdom of God (and Christ) being established at His Second Coming (which is literal, visible, tangible, physical, and spiritual). But one passage (Daniel 7:13,14) should suffice, since it refers to all people, nations, and languages (which can only exist on earth).

    I [Daniel] saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man [Christ] came with the clouds of heaven [all the saints and angels giving the appearance of clouds], and came to the Ancient of Days [God the Father], and they brought Him [Christ] near before him [the Father]. And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a Kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve Him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his Kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

    The Kingdom established by Christ at His first coming was internal and spiritual -- "the Kingdom of God is within you" and "the Kingdom of God cometh not with observation". This was a reference to the New Birth. But at His Second Coming Christ literally established His reign on earth "with a rod of iron" (after the battle of Armageddon).

    THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST WITH HIS SAINTS AND ANGELS (Revelation 19)
    11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [Note: these are the "clouds of Heaven" mentioned above] 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    The very next chapter makes it perfectly clear. Once again "the nations" (above) are on earth, and therefore the Millennium is established on earth.

    THE MILLENNIUM: A BIBLICAL FACT
    1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received hismark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    If after reading this anyone denies that the Millennium is on earth, it means that he/she rejects the Bible as the Word of God.


     
  9. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    Where does Rev.20 say it is on EARTH?
    Dan 7,is the ascension of Jesus,to heaven, not to earth.
    Jesus comes up to the Ancient of Days.
    In rev20, disembodied spirits reign with Him a thousand years, Jesus is in heaven, not on the earth.
    He rules this earth, and the nations from heaven
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  10. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    We can expect to see the fulfillment of Isaiah 66:15-17 first; The Day of the Lords fiery wrath, then Isaiah 62:1-5 and Isaiah 66:18b-21, as all the faithful Christians gather in all of the holy land. Jesus stands on Mt Zion and selects the 144,000, who go out to the nations to proclaim the coming Kingdom.
    Revelation 7:1-3 & 21:1-7 makes it clear that earth is the place it all happens. After all what is prophesied has happened. God Himself will come to dwell on earth with mankind.
    Going to live in heaven is never an option for us earth people. That idea is a fable, an unscriptural lie.
     
  11. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    John saw them in rev20
     
  12. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    Daniel 7 is the ascension of Jesus up to heaven, not down to the earth.
     
  13. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Pleas copy the verse that says this.
    Again you don't provide the verse.
    Revelation makes it clear, the earth is the venue for all the prophesied things John saw.
     
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