Is Purgatory, Limbo, and Hades, bascally Greek Myths or just Mistranslation.

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BreadOfLife

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I was still hoping for a discussion about purgatory from a Roman Catholic based on the two following questions.

If I might ask a Roman Catholic a personal question, and not to be in any way derogatory, but I am simply asking out of curiosity, as I used to think such things, having grown up Roman Catholic, and my question to such personally is this - Do you think you will personally go to 'purgatory', and if so, how long do you think you will be 'there'? (As I said, I am simply asking a technical question, not saying anything about their personal character, and am curious to know, as I used to think in this manner.)

Another question, in the same fashion, as I used to think on this too, is - Does any Roman Catholic personally know of anyone who died that they might think is right now in 'purgatory', and if so, how long do you think they will be there for, and based upon what doctrinal criteria do you, as a Roman Catholic, think this (if you think this)?
The Catholic Teaching on Purgatory or "Final Purification of the Elect" (CCC 1030‐1032) isn't necessarily about actual time.
This teaching is based in Scripture (2 Macc. 12:42‐46, 1 Cor. 3:10‐15m Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32‐35, Luke 12:58‐59) and is more about a process than a span of time.

We see in Mal. 3:3, Jer. 6:27‐30, Ezek. 22:18, Psalm 119:119, Psalm 37:20, Zech. 13:9, Isa. 48:10, where God is the Refiner who burns away the impurities to get to the precious metal – the gold and silver. Since Rev. 21:27 tells us that NOTHING unclean or impure can enter heaven, a final purification or "purgation" is necessary for some before entering heaven.

In 1 Cor. 3:10‐15, this is how the process is described:
"According to the grace of God given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must be careful how he builds upon it, for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day (judgment) will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person WILL be saved, but only as through fire."

This cannot be Heaven because the person will SUFFER ‐ and there is NO suffering in Heaven.
This cannot be Hell because the person will be SAVED ‐ ad there is NO salvation in Hell.
This is describing a THIRD state – a state of Final Purification before entering Heaven.
 

Base12

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Either One believes what this verse teaches...

Luke 16:23 (New International Version)
"In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side."


...or they choose not to believe.

Those that choose not to believe will use 'cop-out' words like 'Parable', which is nothing but a two-faced way of saying "I'm right, the Bible is wrong".
 

Base12

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...the person WILL be saved, but only as through fire."

Not trying to start a debate here, but I believe the 'Fire' in the above verse is the Lake of Fire.
This is describing a THIRD state – a state of Final Purification before entering Heaven.
It's funny how close some of you are to what the 'Third State' really is.

Sadly, No Church has the guts to teach folks the Truth of what happens to those tossed into the Lake of Fire.

:(
 

BreadOfLife

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Not trying to start a debate here, but I believe the 'Fire' in the above verse is the Lake of Fire.
It's funny how close some of you are to what the 'Third State' really is.
Sadly, No Church has the guts to teach folks the Truth of what happens to those tossed into the Lake of Fire.
That is Scripturally impossible.

As we read in 1 Cor. 3:10‐15 - the person being judged WILL BE SAVED. Nobody who is thrown into the Lake of Fire is ever saved.
This is definitely talking about a third state.
Either One believes what this verse teaches...

Luke 16:23 (New International Version)
"In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side."


...or they choose not to believe.
Those that choose not to believe will use 'cop-out' words like 'Parable', which is nothing but a two-faced way of saying "I'm right, the Bible is wrong".
As for Lazarus and the Rich Man - you need to understand TWO things:
First, the gates of Heaven were NOT open yet when Jesus told this parable because Jesus had NOT yet died and risen.

Secondly
- it states emphatically that there was a large chasm separating the two locations where both men resided (Luke 16:26).
Before the gates of Heaven were opened - ALL of the dead went to the SAME place that was separated by this chasm.
 

jaybird

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The realm of the dead is as the word says, dead, but many have picked up ancient Greek myths or even older pagan mysteries and made them beliefs such as Purgatory, Limbo and Hades. It comes from the worship of the dead or ancestor worship which involve addressing prayers or offerings to the spirits of the dead. It existed among the ancient Greeks, other ancient people. The practice of worship for the dead and praying to them, or making prayer or offerings on behalf of the dead to contribute to their afterlife purification is not scriptural and in fact is forbidden in the Bible.

Deuteronomy 18
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Purgatory is the belief that presupposes that the dead can be assisted between death and their entry into their final abode. Purgatory is given as a way that no matter how sinful or unbelieving, when you die, you go to Purgatory and get things sorted out and finally get to heaven, so no acceptance of Christ is needed, you can buy your way in. In ancient Egypt in the worship of the dead, substantially the same doctrine of purgatory was taught as today and its priests created grand funerals and masses for the dead, along with celebration of prayer and other services for the dead.

this is not what purgatory is, purgatory is soul purification before entrance into heaven. if you think Jesus came to give everyone a free pass on purgatory, then why does the bible teach, after Jesus ascended, that every man faces judgment, if you accept Christ what are you getting judged for? Jesus says store up rewards in heaven, all that accept Jesus have the exact same rewards? kinda like both teams getting a pizza party i guess.

according to the DSS Jews were teaching purgatory long before Catholics, the DSS goes back to 200 BC, thats about 600 years before Catholics.
 

WaterSong

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The idea of a "Limbo" was never a doctrinal teaching of the Catholic Church.
It was ALWAYS just a way of trying to reconcile what happened to people about whom Scripture is silent - such as miscarried babies, etc.

The Catholic Church has never changed a doctrinal position in 2000 years.
Is the Catechism a RCC doctrine?
 

BreadOfLife

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Is the Catechism a RCC doctrine?
The Catechism is the instruction of Catholic doctrine.
It's not a doctrine in and of itself.

What is "RCC" and why do you use that term?
 

WaterSong

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The Catechism is the instruction of Catholic doctrine.
It's not a doctrine in and of itself.
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

"(sic)...Whoever, therefore, have adverse and contrary opinions the Church disapproves and anathematizes and declares to be foreign to the Christian body which is the Church....."

Semper Eadem = always the same.
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus= outside the church there is no salvation.
Origen (died A.D. 254): “Let no man deceive himself. Outside this house, that is, outside the Church no one is saved.” (In Iesu Nave homiliae)

DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS

NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965
(2)(sic)
"...The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.

3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting."

[***]
(sic)4."...Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church's preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God's all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.


5. We cannot truly call on God, the Father of all, if we refuse to treat in a brotherly way any man, created as he is in the image of God. Man's relation to God the Father and his relation to men his brothers are so linked together that Scripture says: "He who does not love does not know God" (1 John 4:8).

No foundation therefore remains for any theory or practice that leads to discrimination between man and man or people and people, so far as their human dignity and the rights flowing from it are concerned.

The Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against men or harassment of them because of their race, color, condition of life, or religion. On the contrary, following in the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, this sacred synod ardently implores the Christian faithful to "maintain good fellowship among the nations" (1 Peter 2:12), and, if possible, to live for their part in peace with all men,(14) so that they may truly be sons of the Father who is in heaven.(15)




3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.





Catholic Essentials
"Not Believing" is not an Option!

Limbo
I. The Limbo of the Fathers - A place and state of rest wherein the souls of the just who died before Christ's ascension were detained until he opened Heaven to them; referred to as "Abraham's Bosom" (Luke xvi,22) and "Paradise" (Luke xxiii, 43) and notably in Eph. IV, 9 and I Peter iii, 18-20.
II. The Limbo of Children - It is of faith that all, children and adults, who leave this world without the Baptism of water, blood or desire and therefore in original sin are excluded from the Vision of God in Heaven. The great majority of theologians teach that such children and unbaptized adults free from grievous actual sin, enjoy eternally a state of perfect natural happiness, knowing and loving God by use of their natural powers. This place and state is commonly called Limbo.
(Definition from A Catholic Dictionary, 1951)

Church Teaching:

  • (sic)..."Suarez, for example, ignoring Bellarmine's protest, continued to teach what Catharinus had taught -- that unbaptized children will not only enjoy perfect natural happiness, but that they will rise with immortal bodies at the last day and have the renovated earth for their happy abode (De vit. et penat., ix, sect. vi, n. 4); and, without insisting on such details, the great majority of Catholic theologians have continued to maintain the general doctrine that the children's limbo is a state of perfect natural happiness, just the same as it would have been if God had not established the present supernatural order" 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia, Limbo
Summary

Contrary to what some Catholics have come to believe today, the doctrine of Limbo is mentioned in Scripture (albeit by a different name) and as we can see above, has been taught century to century by the Catholic Church. To deny its existence is not Catholic.

What is "RCC" and why do you use that term?
RCC=Roman Catholic Church
 

BreadOfLife

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Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

"(sic)...Whoever, therefore, have adverse and contrary opinions the Church disapproves and anathematizes and declares to be foreign to the Christian body which is the Church....."

Semper Eadem = always the same.
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus= outside the church there is no salvation.
Origen (died A.D. 254): “Let no man deceive himself. Outside this house, that is, outside the Church no one is saved.” (In Iesu Nave homiliae)

DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS

NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965
(2)(sic)
"...The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.

3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting."

[***]
(sic)4."...Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church's preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God's all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.


5. We cannot truly call on God, the Father of all, if we refuse to treat in a brotherly way any man, created as he is in the image of God. Man's relation to God the Father and his relation to men his brothers are so linked together that Scripture says: "He who does not love does not know God" (1 John 4:8).

No foundation therefore remains for any theory or practice that leads to discrimination between man and man or people and people, so far as their human dignity and the rights flowing from it are concerned.

The Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against men or harassment of them because of their race, color, condition of life, or religion. On the contrary, following in the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, this sacred synod ardently implores the Christian faithful to "maintain good fellowship among the nations" (1 Peter 2:12), and, if possible, to live for their part in peace with all men,(14) so that they may truly be sons of the Father who is in heaven.(15)




3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.





Catholic Essentials
"Not Believing" is not an Option!

Limbo
I. The Limbo of the Fathers - A place and state of rest wherein the souls of the just who died before Christ's ascension were detained until he opened Heaven to them; referred to as "Abraham's Bosom" (Luke xvi,22) and "Paradise" (Luke xxiii, 43) and notably in Eph. IV, 9 and I Peter iii, 18-20.
II. The Limbo of Children - It is of faith that all, children and adults, who leave this world without the Baptism of water, blood or desire and therefore in original sin are excluded from the Vision of God in Heaven. The great majority of theologians teach that such children and unbaptized adults free from grievous actual sin, enjoy eternally a state of perfect natural happiness, knowing and loving God by use of their natural powers. This place and state is commonly called Limbo.
(Definition from A Catholic Dictionary, 1951)

Church Teaching:

  • (sic)..."Suarez, for example, ignoring Bellarmine's protest, continued to teach what Catharinus had taught -- that unbaptized children will not only enjoy perfect natural happiness, but that they will rise with immortal bodies at the last day and have the renovated earth for their happy abode (De vit. et penat., ix, sect. vi, n. 4); and, without insisting on such details, the great majority of Catholic theologians have continued to maintain the general doctrine that the children's limbo is a state of perfect natural happiness, just the same as it would have been if God had not established the present supernatural order" 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia, Limbo
Summary

Contrary to what some Catholics have come to believe today, the doctrine of Limbo is mentioned in Scripture (albeit by a different name) and as we can see above, has been taught century to century by the Catholic Church. To deny its existence is not Catholic.

RCC=Roman Catholic Church
I'm NOT sure where you're going with your argument. Why are you discussing Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus??
As for Limbo - this was NEVER a doctrinal position within th Cathollic Church - so I'm confused as to WHY you're pursuing this.
Can you shed some light?

Finally - there is no "Roman Catholic Church". There is The Catholic Church, which is comprised of some TWENTY Liturgical Rites.
Among these Rites is the "Roman" or "Latin" Rite. Some of the others include the Maronite, Melkite, Coptic, Byzantine, etc. Those in the Melkite Rite are Catholics - but not "Roman" Catholics. SAME goes for the rest.
 

jaybird

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I'm NOT sure where you're going with your argument. Why are you discussing Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus??
As for Limbo - this was NEVER a doctrinal position within th Cathollic Church - so I'm confused as to WHY you're pursuing this.
Can you shed some light?

Finally - there is no "Roman Catholic Church". There is The Catholic Church, which is comprised of some TWENTY Liturgical Rites.
Among these Rites is the "Roman" or "Latin" Rite. Some of the others include the Maronite, Melkite, Coptic, Byzantine, etc. Those in the Melkite Rite are Catholics - but not "Roman" Catholics. SAME goes for the rest.

people say Roman Catholic to distinguish between the roman church and all the other Christian churches, like the church of Jerusalem, that rome destroyed so that it could be the dominant church and rule over everyone by force. quite different than the way Jesus and the 12 did things.
 
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WaterSong

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I'm NOT sure where you're going with your argument. Why are you discussing Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus??
As for Limbo - this was NEVER a doctrinal position within th Cathollic Church - so I'm confused as to WHY you're pursuing this.
Can you shed some light?
Sure. In brief, you took issue with Limbo and claimed it was not a doctrine of the RCC. It is. And has been for centuries. Or, I should say, had been until Pope Benedict decreed Limbo was closed.

Re:"outside the Church there is no salvation". Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, is discussed because it was said that the doctrine of the church hasn't changed in 2000 years. What I posted is evidence it has.

Finally - there is no "Roman Catholic Church". There is The Catholic Church, which is comprised of some TWENTY Liturgical Rites.
Among these Rites is the "Roman" or "Latin" Rite. Some of the others include the Maronite, Melkite, Coptic, Byzantine, etc. Those in the Melkite Rite are Catholics - but not "Roman" Catholics. SAME goes for the rest.
Lastly, thank you for letting me know you may not be of the Church of Rome.
All Roman Catholics of the RCC know precisely what the RCC is.
"Catholic", translates as "Universal". Per the scriptures then the body of Christ on earth, the whole of the faithful who believe in Christ and are indwelt with the holy spirit, are the Ekklesia, the church, in the Greek, καθολικός ,katholikos, translates as universal. The Universal katholikos Ekklesia of Jesus Christ is the church founded by Christ through his word and that has spread across the globe through his will and the teachings of his apostles.

It is an interesting parallel the erection of the RCC some 600 years after Christ. The formality of its authority mirrors that of Caesar and the Roman Senate. Pope/College of Cardinals.
Six hundred years after Jesus ascended a power structure mirroring the Caesars and the senate, whose governor in Jesus time agreed to execute an itinerant rabbi at behest of the assembled Jews and for the sin of blasphemy, did establish a faith and authoritarian body dedicated to that which somewhat reflected in its doctrines the teachings of that itinerant rabbi a Roman governor put to death for the sin of blasphemy.

Believe as you wish. We, neither of us, shall change the others mind.
 

BreadOfLife

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Sure. In brief, you took issue with Limbo and claimed it was not a doctrine of the RCC. It is. And has been for centuries. Or, I should say, had been until Pope Benedict decreed Limbo was closed.

Re:"outside the Church there is no salvation". Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, is discussed because it was said that the doctrine of the church hasn't changed in 2000 years. What I posted is evidence it has.


Lastly, thank you for letting me know you may not be of the Church of Rome.
All Roman Catholics of the RCC know precisely what the RCC is.
"Catholic", translates as "Universal". Per the scriptures then the body of Christ on earth, the whole of the faithful who believe in Christ and are indwelt with the holy spirit, are the Ekklesia, the church, in the Greek, καθολικός ,katholikos, translates as universal. The Universal katholikos Ekklesia of Jesus Christ is the church founded by Christ through his word and that has spread across the globe through his will and the teachings of his apostles.

It is an interesting parallel the erection of the RCC some 600 years after Christ. The formality of its authority mirrors that of Caesar and the Roman Senate. Pope/College of Cardinals.
Six hundred years after Jesus ascended a power structure mirroring the Caesars and the senate, whose governor in Jesus time agreed to execute an itinerant rabbi at behest of the assembled Jews and for the sin of blasphemy, did establish a faith and authoritarian body dedicated to that which somewhat reflected in its doctrines the teachings of that itinerant rabbi a Roman governor put to death for the sin of blasphemy.

Believe as you wish. We, neither of us, shall change the others mind.
Hmmmmm - it's iteresting that YOU believe Jesus to be nothing but a liar and a charlatan who make promises that He can't keep.
You see - Jesus stated that His Church would NEVER succumb to the gates of Hell (Matt. 16:18) - even if YOU don't buy it . . .

As for Limbo - uhhhh, NO - youre wrong.
Limbo was NEVER a doctrine within the Catholic Church. It was simply a common theologocal opinion posited as a way to recocile where the Bible and Tradition were silent.

Finally - as to "Roman Catholic Church" - there isn't one. As I painstakingly explained to you - that is simply the name of the Liturgical Rite.
The name of the Church has ALWAYS been "The Catholic Church".

You're showing that you're as ignorant and historically-bankrupt as some of the other uneducated anti-Catholics around here - which disappoints me.
I was hoping to have an intelligent conversation . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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people say Roman Catholic to distinguish between the roman church and all the other Christian churches, like the church of Jerusalem, that rome destroyed so that it could be the dominant church and rule over everyone by force. quite different than the way Jesus and the 12 did things.
Time for another history lesson, Einstein . . .

When Henry VIII broke away from the ONE Catholic Church in the 16th century because he couldn't divorce his wife - he referred to HIS new invention asa the "Catholic Church of England" and the original Church, he referred to as the "Roman Catholic Church".

Since then ignoramuses of ALL shapes, sizes and backgrounds have referred to the Catholic Church as the "Roman Catholic Church".
It's a catchy name - it's just NOT accurate . . .
 

WaterSong

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Hmmmmm - it's iteresting that YOU believe Jesus to be nothing but a liar and a charlatan who make promises that He can't keep.
You see - Jesus stated that His Church would NEVER succumb to the gates of Hell (Matt. 16:18) - even if YOU don't buy it . . .

As for Limbo - uhhhh, NO - youre wrong.
Limbo was NEVER a doctrine within the Catholic Church. It was simply a common theologocal opinion posited as a way to recocile where the Bible and Tradition were silent.

Finally - as to "Roman Catholic Church" - there isn't one. As I painstakingly explained to you - that is simply the name of the Liturgical Rite.
The name of the Church has ALWAYS been "The Catholic Church".

You're showing that you're as ignorant and historically-bankrupt as some of the other uneducated anti-Catholics around here - which disappoints me.
I was hoping to have an intelligent conversation . . .

Ah, I see you're unable to continue in the spirit of civility and truth.
That's fine. I appreciate you're informing me I no longer need waste my time.

God bless.
 

BreadOfLife

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Ah, I see you're unable to continue in the spirit of civility and truth.
That's fine. I appreciate you're informing me I no longer need waste my time.

God bless.
Sigh . . . another uninformed anti-Catholic - what a shame . . .

You cannot argue the merits of your position because I proved you wrong on ALL points.
ALL Catholic doctrine is encapulated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Limbo is NOT - nor has it EVER been listed in the Catechism as a doctrine.

NOW, you can take your ball and run home . . .
 

jaybird

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Time for another history lesson, Einstein . . .

When Henry VIII broke away from the ONE Catholic Church in the 16th century because he couldn't divorce his wife - he referred to HIS new invention asa the "Catholic Church of England" and the original Church, he referred to as the "Roman Catholic Church".

Since then ignoramuses of ALL shapes, sizes and backgrounds have referred to the Catholic Church as the "Roman Catholic Church".
It's a catchy name - it's just NOT accurate . . .

ohh ok so its the Catholic church and the roman empire and one has nothing to do with the other, im such an ignoramous i guess when i read about roman emperors presiding over catholic councils as well as giving orders banishing preachers that teach a different opinion than what rome, i mean, the roman church, i mean, the church in rome allowed.

now when Jesus was teaching did He have a roman emperor telling Him what to teach?
 
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In fact, all of misunderstanding will confuse them. The reality of Christ are simple, Hades/underworld is where the place of the devil Ifrit & Beelzebub hide from God and took the soul of sinners under captivated and tortured. There is no hell yet, if Christ came in the end of time the captivated of all believers of Christ will be released from the prisoners of the devil, while unbelievers will be left behind under devil's captive and then the earth will be destroyed in flames and entire galaxy will strike the sun and burned forever. Heaven is where God himself is the center of the light and the night will no longer exists (Revelation 21:22-25).
 

BreadOfLife

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ohh ok so its the Catholic church and the roman empire and one has nothing to do with the other, im such an ignoramous i guess when i read about roman emperors presiding over catholic councils as well as giving orders banishing preachers that teach a different opinion than what rome, i mean, the roman church, i mean, the church in rome allowed.

now when Jesus was teaching did He have a roman emperor telling Him what to teach?
And there you go again with your total inability to differentiate a government and the Church.
Anyway - the Catholic Church has ALWAYS just been the "Catholic Church".

Oh, did you say that you're an ignoramus?
Imagine that . . .
 

jaybird

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Feb 29, 2016
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And there you go again with your total inability to differentiate a government and the Church.
Anyway - the Catholic Church has ALWAYS just been the "Catholic Church".

Oh, did you say that you're an ignoramus?
Imagine that . . .

yeah i know, i am so crazy, im looking at a duck yet your telling me its not "really" a duck, its a unicorn.its crazy how someone can be so brainwashed they would believe in such things.
 

Enoch111

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May 27, 2018
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The realm of the dead is as the word says, dead, but many have picked up ancient Greek myths or even older pagan mysteries and made them beliefs such as Purgatory, Limbo and Hades.
Hades is not a Greek myth. It is God and Christ who have revealed to us the existence and truth about Hades.

But Scripture does not say anything about Limbo or Purgatory. Therefore we need to separate the wheat from the chaff.