Is Purgatory, Limbo, and Hades, bascally Greek Myths or just Mistranslation.

[Enoch111]

Jesus says no one goes to the father except through him.

Christians -- by definition -- go to the Father through Christ. So why are you trying to deny that genuine Christians go directly to Heaven?

 

[K9Buck]

Christians -- by definition -- go to the Father through Christ. So why are you trying to deny that genuine Christians go directly to Heaven?

I deleted my post.

Upon death, are we immediately purified and no longer capable of impure thoughts?

 

[BreadOfLife]

yeah i know, i am so crazy

Tank you for finally admitting that . . .

im looking at a duck yet your telling me its not "really" a duck, its a unicorn.its crazy how someone can be so brainwashed they would believe in such things.

I sorrected your fellow anti-Catholic, @WaterSong - who was ignorantly using the term "RCC" (Roman Catholic Church).
That's when YOU jumped in with your usual manure about the Catholic Church and pagan Rome being one and the same.

We've had this conversation before, which turned out to be a bad version of Abbot & Costello's "Who's On First?" because of your abject ignorance of history. To say that moronic conversation was a waste of time is the understatement of the year . . .

 

[Illuminator]

Christians -- by definition -- go to the Father through Christ. So why are you trying to deny that genuine Christians go directly to Heaven?

Nobody is denying that. Most "genuine Christians" are not perfect when they die. What is being denied is God's mercy and love to perfect genuine Christians prior to entrance into heaven.

 

[jaybird]

Tank you for finally admitting that . . .

I sorrected your fellow anti-Catholic, @WaterSong - who was ignorantly using the term "RCC" (Roman Catholic Church).
That's when YOU jumped in with your usual manure about the Catholic Church and pagan Rome being one and the same.

We've had this conversation before, which turned out to be a bad version of Abbot & Costello's "Who's On First?" because of your abject ignorance of history. To say that moronic conversation was a waste of time is the understatement of the year . . .

because when you have been proven wrong by a mountain of evidence, its best to bury your head in the sand and call it a pile of manure rather than acknowledge you have been proven wrong.

 

[BreadOfLife]

because when you have been proven wrong by a mountain of evidence, its best to bury your head in the sand and call it a pile of manure rather than acknowledge you have been proven wrong.

Your "mountain of evidence" is just another pathetic dung heap of historical bankruptcy.

As I stated earlier, I've destroyed your moronic fairy tales before - so unless you have anything intelligent to say that's related to the topic - don't waste my time . . .

 

[K9Buck]

Can't ya just feel the love in the air?!

 

[jaybird]

Your "mountain of evidence" is just another pathetic dung heap of historical bankruptcy.

As I stated earlier, I've destroyed your moronic fairy tales before - so unless you have anything intelligent to say that's related to the topic - don't waste my time . . .

it could be an entire mountain range and you will ignore it none the less.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Purgatory/Limbo/ Hades

Words such as purgatory and limbo have no place in the scriptures. People who believe in Purgatory believe that humans have souls that go to Purgatory to purify their venial sins so as to become fit for heaven.
The scriptures show however that the soul is the person, so when the soul dies the person dies. Also the scriptures show that those that have died or are dead are sleeping therefore unconscious. At John 11:11 Jesus knew the truth about what happens to the soul at death, because Jesus said Lazarus had fallen asleep and therefore was unconscious, non-existent.
Concerning Limbo the Concise Oxford Dictionary says that Limbo is a "region on border of hell, supposed abode of pre-Christian righteous persons and unbaptized infants."
Concerning Limbo the New catholic Encyclopedia says: "Today the term Limbo is used by theologians to designate the state and place either of those souls who didn't merit hell and its eternal punishments but could not enter heaven before the Redemption (the fathers' Limbo) or of those souls who are eternally excluded from the beatific Vision because of original sin alone(the children's Limbo).
As I have said before however the scriptures show the soul is the person so when the soul dies the person dies.
Hades is a greek word corresponding to the Hebrew word “Sheol.” It is translated “Grave” (capitalized), to distinguish it as the common grave of mankind. So GRAVE/HADES is described in the Bible as a symbolic place or condition wherein all activity and consciousness cease.—Ge 47:30; Ec 9:10; Ac 2:31.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Please! This type of communication is contemptuous. Calling a brother or sister in Christ "ignorant", "asinine", and "dishonest" does not apply in this context. The writer disagrees with you, but he is not an ass, nor is he being dishonest (he really believes what he is saying). I point out the hatefulness in your words because I, too, have been guilty of going too far with my words. Should we not be displaying Christ-like behavior on this forum?

Excuse me??

The poster to who you are referring (@Hobie) is not an innocent person who is merly "inquiring" about soething he doesn't understand. He is a well-known anti Cathoolic who trolls this and several other forums posting his dishonest manure.

I'm not here to make friends - nor am I here to be admired. I am ONLY here to seek out LIES about the Catholic Church, to expose the dishonest hypocrites who post them - and to set the record straight. There are MANY people who visit these forums looking for answers and they deserve to know when they're being lied to.

The ones "offended" by my posts are usually the ones being exposed . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Purgatory/Limbo/ Hades

Words such as purgatory and limbo have no place in the scriptures. People who believe in Purgatory believe that humans have souls that go to Purgatory to purify their venial sins so as to become fit for heaven.
The scriptures show however that the soul is the person, so when the soul dies the person dies. Also the scriptures show that those that have died or are dead are sleeping therefore unconscious. At John 11:11 Jesus knew the truth about what happens to the soul at death, because Jesus said Lazarus had fallen asleep and therefore was unconscious, non-existent.
Concerning Limbo the Concise Oxford Dictionary says that Limbo is a "region on border of hell, supposed abode of pre-Christian righteous persons and unbaptized infants."
Concerning Limbo the New catholic Encyclopedia says: "Today the term Limbo is used by theologians to designate the state and place either of those souls who didn't merit hell and its eternal punishments but could not enter heaven before the Redemption (the fathers' Limbo) or of those souls who are eternally excluded from the beatific Vision because of original sin alone(the children's Limbo).
As I have said before however the scriptures show the soul is the person so when the soul dies the person dies.
Hades is a greek word corresponding to the Hebrew word “Sheol.” It is translated “Grave” (capitalized), to distinguish it as the common grave of mankind. So GRAVE/HADES is described in the Bible as a symbolic place or condition wherein all activity and consciousness cease.—Ge 47:30; Ec 9:10; Ac 2:31.

For starters - and as I have explained ad nauseam - Limbo has NEVER been a doctrine of the Church. It is ALWAYS nothing more than a theological opinion used to reconcile what happened to those about whom Scripture is silent.

As for Purgatory having "no place" in the Sciptures -you are correct about the WORD.
For that mmatter, neither are the words Trinity or Incarnation - but the teaching is there. "Bible" isn't in the bible either - NOR is the list of Books thak belong in it.

As has been shown the teaching of Purgatory or, as it is called in the Catechim of the Catholic Church, the "Final Purification of the Elect" is indeed Scriptural (2 Macc. 42-46, 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Matt. 5:25-26, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35, Luke 12:58-59). This was also believed and taught by the Early Church - from the Pre-Nicene Fathers on.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

For starters - and as I have explained ad nauseam - Limbo has NEVER been a doctrine of the Church. It is ALWAYS nothing more than a theological opinion used to reconcile what happened to those about whom Scripture is silent.

As for Purgatory having "no place" in the Sciptures -you are correct about the WORD.
For that mmatter, neither are the words Trinity or Incarnation - but the teaching is there. "Bible" isn't in the bible either - NOR is the list of Books thak belong in it.

As has been shown the teaching of Purgatory or, as it is called in the Catechim of the Catholic Church, the "Final Purification of the Elect" is indeed Scriptural (2 Macc. 42-46, 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Matt. 5:25-26, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35, Luke 12:58-59). This was also believed and taught by the Early Church - from the Pre-Nicene Fathers on.

I will continue to speak this truth that's from the scriptures, "the soul is the person." So when a person/human dies the soul dies, for this reason there is no conscious existence after a person/human dies. There's nothing in existence to go to a place called purgatory, thus places like Purgatory and Limbo don't exist. So doctrines such as purgatory, Limbo, Hellfire, immortality of the Soul and Trinity are all doctrines of men, not scriptural doctrines.

 

[Illuminator]

For starters - and as I have explained ad nauseam - Limbo has NEVER been a doctrine of the Church. It is ALWAYS nothing more than a theological opinion used to reconcile what happened to those about whom Scripture is silent.

As for Purgatory having "no place" in the Sciptures -you are correct about the WORD.
For that mmatter, neither are the words Trinity or Incarnation - but the teaching is there. "Bible" isn't in the bible either - NOR is the list of Books thak belong in it.

As has been shown the teaching of Purgatory or, as it is called in the Catechim of the Catholic Church, the "Final Purification of the Elect" is indeed Scriptural (2 Macc. 42-46, 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Matt. 5:25-26, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35, Luke 12:58-59). This was also believed and taught by the Early Church - from the Pre-Nicene Fathers on.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15, Matthew 5:25-26, Matthew 12:32, Matthew 18:32-35, Luke 12:58-59 are teachings founded on what had always been believed by the Jews: a primitive form of purgatory. We see evidence going well beyond disputed books.
Rev. 21:4 – God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 – nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Genesis 50:10; Numbers 20:29; Deut. 34:8 – here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.
Jesus and Paul's elaborations on purgatory was understood by the Jews of the time and not questioned until the 16th century. Martin Luther had problems with purgatory because he was mentally ill and hated the Jews. His false theology eliminated the need for purgatory.

In 1937, a Copenhagen Psychiatrist, Paul J. Reiter MD wrote a 2 volume study, Martin Luther's World Character and Psychosis and the Influence of These Factors on his Development and Teachings which also demonstrated in detail from his own writings that Luther was mentally disturbed.

There is a review of Reiter's book here:

 

[Illuminator]

For starters - and as I have explained ad nauseam - Limbo has NEVER been a doctrine of the Church. It is ALWAYS nothing more than a theological opinion used to reconcile what happened to those about whom Scripture is silent.

As for Purgatory having "no place" in the Sciptures -you are correct about the WORD.
For that mmatter, neither are the words Trinity or Incarnation - but the teaching is there. "Bible" isn't in the bible either - NOR is the list of Books thak belong in it.

As has been shown the teaching of Purgatory or, as it is called in the Catechim of the Catholic Church, the "Final Purification of the Elect" is indeed Scriptural (2 Macc. 42-46, 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Matt. 5:25-26, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35, Luke 12:58-59). This was also believed and taught by the Early Church - from the Pre-Nicene Fathers on.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15, Matthew 5:25-26, Matthew 12:32, Matthew 18:32-35, Luke 12:58-59 are teachings founded on what had always been believed by the Jews: a primitive form of purgatory. We see evidence going well beyond disputed books.
Rev. 21:4 – God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 – nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Genesis 50:10; Numbers 20:29; Deut. 34:8 – here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.
Jesus and Paul's elaborations on purgatory was understood by the Jews of the time and not questioned until the 16th century. Martin Luther had problems with purgatory because he was mentally ill and hated the Jews. His false theology eliminated the need for purgatory.

 

[Illuminator]

In America in the 1910s, Professor Preserved Smith from Amherst College wrote several articles and books analyzing Luther from a Freudian perspective and finding evidence of psycho-pathology in him.

In 1937, a Copenhagen Psychiatrist, Paul J. Reiter MD wrote a 2 volume study, Martin Luther's World Character and Psychosis and the Influence of These Factors on his Development and Teachings which also demonstrated in detail from his own writings that Luther was mentally disturbed.

There is a review of Reiter's book here.

The rejection of purgatory is not based on the truth of scripture, but on the opinions of one angry insane individual that ended up being branded into the Protestant Revolt.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I will continue to speak this truth that's from the scriptures, "the soul is the person." So when a person/human dies the soul dies, for this reason there is no conscious existence after a person/human dies. There's nothing in existence to go to a place called purgatory, thus places like Purgatory and Limbo don't exist. So doctrines such as purgatory, Limbo, Hellfire, immortality of the Soul and Trinity are all doctrines of men, not scriptural doctrines.

I forgot about your wacky perversions - so I'll destroy your argument with ONE passage of Scripture and move on.
These "non-existent", "dead souls" are verly much ALIVE, as we see in the following verses . . .

Rev. 6-9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. THEY cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Imagine that - "dead" souls that are "crying out" for justice and are given white robes to put on and told to "rest" unti justice has been served.
Since when do "dead" or "non-existent" souls communicate or get impatient?

Gee - they seem pretty "conscious" to me . . .

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I forgot about your wacky perversions - so I'll destroy your argument with ONE passage of Scripture and move on.
These "non-existent", "dead souls" are verly much ALIVE, as we see in the following verses . . .

Rev. 6-9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. THEY cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Imagine that - "dead" souls that are "crying out" for justice and are given white robes to put on and told to "rest" unti justice has been served.
Since when do "dead" or "non-existent" souls communicate or get impatient?

Gee - they seem pretty "conscious" to me . . .

Revelation was told to John in signs, it's a highly symbolic book. But here is what's important BreadOfLife, just as Eve believed the serpent that said she wouldn't die, you believe the serpent too. In scripture the word, "Soul" is the person, the human. So in scripture when a soul dies the person dies. So anytime you interpret scripture that a person continues living in some other plain of existence place at the moment they die and that they're actually still a living person you're calling God a liar. When God told Adam he would die if he ate the forbidden fruit that person did die at the age of 930 years old. Death is the opposite of life. Death is unconscious sleeping. If a person is still living when you die then you also deny the resurrection of the dead. The resurrection means waking one up from unconscious sleeping back to consciousness, back to conscious awareness. God told Adam at Genesis 3:19- In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” You and others can argue all you want but God was talking to the person known as Adam here in this scripture. So the person known as Adam died he isn't still living somewhere in some other plain of existence as the pagan religions claim.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Revelation was told to John in signs, it's a highly symbolic book. But here is what's important BreadOfLife, just as Eve believed the serpent that said she wouldn't die, you believe the serpent too. In scripture the word, "Soul" is the person, the human. So in scripture when a soul dies the person dies. So anytime you interpret scripture that a person continues living in some other plain of existence place at the moment they die and that they're actually still a living person you're calling God a liar. When God told Adam he would die if he ate the forbidden fruit that person did die at the age of 930 years old. Death is the opposite of life. Death is unconscious sleeping. If a person is still living when you die then you also deny the resurrection of the dead. The resurrection means waking one up from unconscious sleeping back to consciousness, back to conscious awareness. God told Adam at Genesis 3:19- In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” You and others can argue all you want but God was talking to the person known as Adam here in this scripture. So the person known as Adam died he isn't still living somewhere in some other plain of existence as the pagan religions claim.

Yes - whenever Scripturally-ignorant people are given passages from the Book of Revelation - they always claim that it is merely "symbolic" and therefore doesn't apply.

The fact is that the "souls" being spoken of in Rev. 6:9-11 are CONSCIOUS to what is happening on earth below and are CRYING OUT for justice - and are given heavenly garments to wear.

Give me YOUR purely "symbolic" explanation for this.
This should be interesting . . .

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Yes - whenever Scripturally-ignorant people are given passages from the Book of Revelation - they always claim that it is merely "symbolic" and therefore doesn't apply.

The fact is that the "souls" being spoken of in Rev. 6:9-11 are CONSCIOUS to what is happening on earth below and are CRYING OUT for justice - and are given heavenly garments to wear.

Give me YOUR purely "symbolic" explanation for this.
This should be interesting . . .

I know you like the pagan religions (false religions) want to believe that death has always been a doorway to another plain of existence, therefore you have always believed and preached to other people that a person doesn't truly die but continues to live somewhere else. By believing this way you're agreeing with the serpent who deceived Eve and are calling God a liar just as the serpent did. A person dies and doesn't live again until the resurrection. Just as I said and will continue to state that the soul is the person. A human is a soul. Souls are not immortal, souls are mortal. Souls can die. You can take these scriptures in Revelation as literal but you're in error for looking at them that way. A person who is a soul grows old and dies if not before by accident or sickness on this planet and when a person dies if God has judged him worthy of a resurrection those that have died will live again in the resurrection.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I know you like the pagan religions (false religions) want to believe that death has always been a doorway to another plain of existence, therefore you have always believed and preached to other people that a person doesn't truly die but continues to live somewhere else. By believing this way you're agreeing with the serpent who deceived Eve and are calling God a liar just as the serpent did. A person dies and doesn't live again until the resurrection. Just as I said and will continue to state that the soul is the person. A human is a soul. Souls are not immortal, souls are mortal. Souls can die. You can take these scriptures in Revelation as literal but you're in error for looking at them that way. A person who is a soul grows old and dies if not before by accident or sickness on this planet and when a person dies if God has judged him worthy of a resurrection those that have died will live again in the resurrection.

Good luck with those wacky perversions of God's Word on Judgement Day . . .