Is the book of James devoid of grace

[RichardBurger]

(waquinas;56418)
We are in this conversation because you implied I said God was NOT in control when you saidMy response was to ask why you thought the reasons behind Paul being sent out by the other Apostles were not in God's control since you seemed to think my statement indicated something other than God being in control. You know there was a time when people believed everything, including the actions of others and circumstances of our lives was in God's control, perhaps am old fashioned in that regard or simply misuunderstanding you.Again, am simply stating that there were reasons Paul was not a big hit in Jerusalem and those reasons were part of why he was sent out and all of that was God's Hand.
And the reason is shown in Acts 21. Paul's message was not the same as James and the elders. If they were teaching the same message, Paul AND James and the Elders would have suffered at the hands of BELIEVING Jews. But as we see in Acts 21 James and the elders were not being persecuted as Paul was. --- Obvious to me.Richard

 

[waquinas]

As Paul lived longer than James am not sure how we are to see James as not being persecuted. As Paul betrayed his former masters in conversion and formerly sought the murder of Christians, it should be fairly obvious to all that he would have difficulty making friends in that area.

 

[RichardBurger]

(waquinas;56554)
As Paul lived longer than James am not sure how we are to see James as not being persecuted. As Paul betrayed his former masters in conversion and formerly sought the murder of Christians, it should be fairly obvious to all that he would have difficulty making friends in that area.
I don't get it, in the book of Acts, chapter 21, """"ONLY""" Paul was being persecuted by the """""""""BELIEVING JEWS""""""""""". James and the Elders WERE NOT.But it seems you want to ignore this because James was, later killed. Sorry, I don't see who killed him in the Bible. Was it BELIEVING JEWS, or NON-BELIEVING JEWS?How can people just ignore what was going on in Acts 21 so that they can refuse to see"""""THAT ONLY PAUL WAS BEING PERSECUTED BY THE BELIEVING JEWS """"" AT THAT TIME."""""Sorry, but talking about a later time does not change what was happening in Acts 21.

 

[waquinas]

Oh am sorry that's right, you cannot even believe that James or Paul were killed as martyrs because that is not in there either. Sorry, did not mean to confuse you.

 

[RichardBurger]

(waquinas;56582)
Oh am sorry that's right, you cannot even believe that James or Paul were killed as martyrs because that is not in there either. Sorry, did not mean to confuse you.
Stop trying to tell me, and others, what I believe. You are clueless.I am the one that can tell others what I believe. :naughty:I said old: "in the book of Acts, chapter 21, """"ONLY""" Paul was being persecuted by the """""""""BELIEVING JEWS""""""""""". James and the Elders WERE NOT.You can talk all around it but what I said is obvious. """"ONLY PAUL WAS BEING PERSECUTED BY THE BELIEVING JEWS"""" in Acts 21. Only those that refuse to see can say otherwise.

 

[waquinas]

You are correct, am clueless to what you believe as it appears to me you randomly pick and choose without reason what you are going to believe among things not explicit in the Bible, using "it is not in there" when it suits you and freely accepting things not in there as that suits you. At least you see my confusion now. If it does not suit you to accept tradition on these matters that is fine with me, but would rather you just say that than to claim you do not accept it because it is not in there. The deaths of these men are not in there either, yet apparently you accept that. So "it is not here" must not be a hard criteria for acceptance or a reason for dismissal. And that begs the question how one decides - especially in a matter as trivial and reasonably sounding as some of the reasons Paul was not the local hero in either the Church or with some of his old Jewish friends. It is pretty much a no brainer that one could see just reading through the lines in Acts, it makes sense that people in that area would be uncomfortable with him regardless what they thought about his message.

 

[RichardBurger]

(waquinas;56612)
You are correct, am clueless to what you believe as it appears to me you randomly pick and choose without reason what you are going to believe among things not explicit in the Bible, using "it is not in there" when it suits you and freely accepting things not in there as that suits you. At least you see my confusion now. If it does not suit you to accept tradition on these matters that is fine with me, but would rather you just say that than to claim you do not accept it because it is not in there. The deaths of these men are not in there either, yet apparently you accept that. So "it is not here" must not be a hard criteria for acceptance or a reason for dismissal. And that begs the question how one decides - especially in a matter as trivial and reasonably sounding as some of the reasons Paul was not the local hero in either the Church or with some of his old Jewish friends. It is pretty much a no brainer that one could see just reading through the lines in Acts, it makes sense that people in that area would be uncomfortable with him regardless what they thought about his message.
I said old: "in the book of Acts, chapter 21, """"ONLY""" Paul was being persecuted by the """""""""BELIEVING JEWS""""""""""". James and the Elders WERE NOT.You can talk all around it but what I said is obvious. """"ONLY PAUL WAS BEING PERSECUTED BY THE BELIEVING JEWS"""" in Acts 21. Only those that refuse to see can say otherwise.And you are still talking all around it. Since you refuse to come to the grips with what is clearly shown in Acts 21, I will not continue with you. I will not waste anymore of my time.

 

[waquinas]

Actually most of the Christians in Jerusalem were Jews, am not sure why my saying both Christians (who were Jews for the most part) and his former Jewish masters did not care for him is disproved by what happens in ACTS 21. The leadership of the Jews in the next Chapter were certainly not Christians. Sorry for wasting your time in pointing out the obvious.