Is there a city existing today called Jerusalem: according to God and his word?

[marks]

No. there is no scripture saying your words....'he intends to destroy Jerusalem 'permanently.' Scripture, especially in the OT is not written for a modern reader as you are using/superimposing here for your defense. That is very unreasonable and really unfair. And you must already know this as fact.

No, it's not unfair at all. Especially considering the body of Scripture that very clearly says otherwise. If the Bible says such and such is true, and does not say such and such is not true, then shouldn't that be the fact we accept?

Much love!

 

[marks]

One of which says God is now done with the physical city of Jerusalem.

No, not at all.


Zechariah 12:2-10 KJV
2) Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3) And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
4) In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
5) And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
6) In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
7) The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
8) In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Jerusalem, Jerusalem, Sing for the night is over! Hosanna in the highest! Hosanna forevermore!

Much love!

 

[marks]

One must read all this scripture through the mouth and thoughts of the writer and his/her audience. Can you do that without leaping forward and adding in theoretical modern arguments that are virtually impossible to defend?

I think reading and rereading the Bible may eventually bring you to see the promises God made to His chosen nation, and His intent to keep His promises.

I don't disregard His promises. God does not lie. What "modern argument" are you thinking of? I'm just quoting the Bible.

Much love!

 

[marks]

His physical seed yes, of course. And there is scripture of course you can find to know this as fact. You must know this already I take it.

Do you know about this passage?

Isaiah 59:20-21 KJV
20) And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21) As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Much love!

 

[APAK]

Jeremiah 31:27-40 KJV
27) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28) And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
29) In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30) But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
38) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
39) And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
40) And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

Isaiah 59:20-21 KJV
20) And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21) As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Ezekiel 39:23-29 KJV
23) And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24) According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
25) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26) After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27) When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 36:21-28 KJV
21) But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Joel 3:1-2 KJV
1) For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2) I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Daniel 12:13 KJV
13) But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Zechariah 12:2-10 KJV
2) Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3) And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
4) In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
5) And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
6) In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
7) The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
8) In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

It seems to me as I read these passages God is not finished with either Jerusalem or Israel.

I need not add commentary, only to say, I believe these passages are accurate, and God's Word is true.

Much love!

The problem with spewing out all this scripture marks, as you have a habit of doing, in trying to convince me of 'something' I do not know as of yet, is that you really do not know what the words, phrases and symbology mean. You cannot even produce a commentary or explanation of them to make your case somewhat credible, or any case case for that matter. I can completely ignore your post entirely as graffiti on the public walls, without purpose or application, or do something about it?

I will later explain and produce a commentary of this scripture you posted here specifically for you and for your future reference. And it will show that there is no support for a physical city called Jerusalem today. You are welcome.

 

[marks]

with spewing out all this scripture

Good to know what it means to you.

Again . . . Posting passages which state plainly that which you say is not so. No commentary needed. They say what they say.

Much love!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Let's clear up Isaiah 2:2-4 and Micah 4:1-5 and 6-8 shall we one last time, for good, that says there still is no justification for a physical city of Jerusalem post 70 AD. It is gone for good. That purpose and function was completed!

So why still force, try to persuade, strain and squeeze in your own interpretations of some OT scripture to fit your own theories of the future, with the physical and not the spiritual nature of the Kingdom and the future. We have to be very careful when understanding symbolism in scripture. It is not that straight forward as you make it to be.

In Isaiah 2:2–4 the prophet spoke of the time when Messiah would come and establish His mountain (Mount Zion), house, and city among Jews and all other nations. As the New Testament reveals, this prophecy speaks of the spiritual peace that comes through the gospel, wherein national Israelite tribes and other/all nations are united in Christ into one spiritual nation and kingdom. It does not refer the a physical land of Israel or a physical city of Jerusalem in the writers future (of Isaiah and Micah).

Jesus said that His kingdom was “not of this world,” and the New Testament writers confirmed His teaching, telling believers that the kingdom they were receiving was not physical-literal, but spiritual (2 Cor. 6:16; Gal. 4; Heb. 9:24–27; 12:18ff.; 1 Peter 1:4–13).

Writers in the OT especially used much symbology for prophetic messages that was common to their audience for them to understand it. Telling them that Zion or Jerusalem for example are spiritual in nature would have many people shaking their heads. Their message would have landed upon deaf ears.

And the point you made as in Micah 4:5 refers again to those that will come to Christ and not follow other gods as others who will continue to follow idols. And this has occurred since the time of Christ and even today, into the Kingdom today, and fully when the new heavens and earth are present. This message in Isaiah and Micah is not for the national tribes of Israel then and today, because for starters Christ would not arrive in their time, and today, there is none living or recognized as such people in God's eyes.

You are understanding OT prophecy in literal terms and as literal language. And that will get you into trouble every time, as you have done here. You have confused a simple message about the future Christ, his Kingdom (Mt Zion and Jerusalem) for these OT people and all since Christ and in Christ into the new heavens and earth.

The Lord's Temple dwells in all believers from all nations and we follow the Law of Christ in our hearts not a physical Law in a physical mountain of a physical city (today or in the future) (Isaiah 2:2-5 and Micah 4:1-8).

I hope you now get my view on the subject and this scripture you have inserted, to try and convince that there is a valid scriptural reason for a physical city called Jerusalem today.

Again there is no case for a post 70 AD city of Jerusalem in God's eyes and purpose. It is all done in Christ and his Kingdom, then and today.

Nor did I say that either, however the prophecy is being fulfilled today, in these last days, you simply disagree with the interpretation of it. Jehovah's witnesses fit the prophecy. They worship the God of Jacob, people from all over the world come to His figurative mountain to be educated, and they are in fact well educated teachers of the Bible. They are not hypocrites, as they learn His ways, they obey walking in His paths. They have beat their swords into plowshares and do not war. Accept those facts or reject them sir, but it is a fact, observable to everyone.

 

[APAK]

Nor did I say that either, however the prophecy is being fulfilled today, in these last days, you simply disagree with the interpretation of it. Jehovah's witnesses fit the prophecy. They worship the God of Jacob, people from all over the world come to His figurative mountain to be educated, and they are in fact well educated teachers of the Bible. They are not hypocrites, as they learn His ways, they obey walking in His paths. They have beat their swords into plowshares and do not war. Accept those facts or reject them sir, but it is a fact, observable to everyone.

So you say....

 

[Robert Gwin]

So you say....

And of course what I said was either truth or not. What do the facts reveal?