Is There A 'Need' For supernatural abilities Today?

[GRACE ambassador]

"

Goal Of The Gifts​

After our Lord Rose from the dead, and before He Ascended into Heaven, He
Commissioned His apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel
(Mark_16:15). Those who believed the gospel and were baptized would be
saved (v. 16), and empowered with certain supernatural abilities, known as
spiritual gifts:

“And these signs shall follow them that believe; In My name shall
they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; “They shall
take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt
them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover”
(Mark_16:17,18)...​

While the early disciples indeed displayed nearly all of these gifts, it is obvious
to most Christians that believers today no longer possess these supernatural
powers. We believe that this is because these gifts uniquely qualified those
saints to preach the gospel safely during the Great Tribulation, but that the
coming of the Tribulation was put “on hold” with the introduction of the
dispensation of Grace.

The purpose of this article will be to show how these gifts will equip the saints
to meet the unique challenges that will be present in the Tribulation period.
In so doing, we also intend to demonstrate how in the absence of these unique
challenges, there is no need for these gifts in the present dispensation...

...brief study is not meant to be...exhaustive...we rather trust
that the reader will add these few thoughts to the arsenal of
spiritual weaponry with which we must equip ourselves...​

"
(R Kurth)

FULL study:
The Goal Of The Gifts



GRACE And Peace...
https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/gods-very-simple-will-under-his-pure-grace.39214/

 

[shortangel]

thank you for shareing that, i think some of the supernatural sipriitual gifts are still for today it just depends on how one views them

 

[JohnPaul]

I believe in miracles.

 

[Hidden In Him]

"

Goal Of The Gifts​

After our Lord Rose from the dead, and before He Ascended into Heaven, He
Commissioned His apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel
(Mark_16:15). Those who believed the gospel and were baptized would be
saved (v. 16), and empowered with certain supernatural abilities, known as
spiritual gifts:

“And these signs shall follow them that believe; In My name shall
they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; “They shall
take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt
them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover”
(Mark_16:17,18)...​

While the early disciples indeed displayed nearly all of these gifts, it is obvious
to most Christians that believers today no longer possess these supernatural
powers. We believe that this is because these gifts uniquely qualified those
saints to preach the gospel safely during the Great Tribulation, but that the
coming of the Tribulation was put “on hold” with the introduction of the
dispensation of Grace.

The purpose of this article will be to show how these gifts will equip the saints
to meet the unique challenges that will be present in the Tribulation period.
In so doing, we also intend to demonstrate how in the absence of these unique
challenges, there is no need for these gifts in the present dispensation...

...brief study is not meant to be...exhaustive...we rather trust
that the reader will add these few thoughts to the arsenal of
spiritual weaponry with which we must equip ourselves...​

"
(R Kurth)

FULL study:
The Goal Of The Gifts

View attachment 24069

GRACE And Peace...

Hello again, Grace Ambassador.

I started to read through the study, but I quickly found some misconceptions. For instance, in one place it states, "This then is why demon possession did not appear until the New Testament, for Satan does not attempt to counterfeit what God is doing until God actually starts doing it." This doesn't mesh well with Jewish tradition, because they had a long tradition of exorcism dating back to the time of King Solomon. To quote an ancient passage by Josephus:

God granted Solomon knowledge of the art concerning demons (τὴν κατὰ τῶν δαιμόνων τέχνην) for the benefit and healing of mankind: he composed incantations (ἐπῳδάς) for the alleviation of illness and left behind modes of exorcism (τρόπους ἐξορκώσεων) for those in need, to chase out demons such that they would never return. This healing prevails widely among us to the present day: for I have witnessed one of my countrymen, Eleazar, in the presence of Vespasian … releasing from demons those possessed (λαμβανομένους) by them. The mode of healing was as follows: he would bring his ring up to the nostrils of the demoniac, which had under its seal one of the roots recommended by Solomon, then draw the demon through the nostrils of the patient as he smelled. The person fell at once, and (Eleazar) would adjure (ὥρκου) (the demon) never to return to him, mentioning Solomon and uttering the incantations that he composed. (Josephus, A.J. 8.45–47)

As one article on the subject also states:

This Solomonic precedent is cited, with the addition of the archangel Michael, in an apotropaic amulet on a late ancient gold lamella found at Rome, where the exchange between Solomon and the demons is elaborated with reported speech from the latter.

I adjure (ὁρκίζω) all the spirits (πνεύματα) …, every evil spirit, as they recall the covenant (μνησθέντα τῆς διαθήκης) into which they entered in fear of Solomon and the angel Michael, when they swore the great and holy oath in the holy name (ὤμοσαν τὸν μέγαν καὶ ἅγιον ὅρκον ἐπὶ τοῦ ὀνόματος ἁγίου) and said, “We will flee and not lie.”21

This tradition resulted in a dedicated, pseudo-autobiographical treatise of Solomon on his mastery of demons, including their names, functions, and methods of adjuration, his well-known Testament, which circulated in a broad manuscript tradition including late ancient papyri. Designs for a “seal” (σφραγίς) attributed to Solomon have an independent career as an apotropaic motif against demonic assault.
Hippocratic Diagnosis, Solomonic Therapy, Roman Amulets: Epilepsy, Exorcism, and the Diffusion of a Jewish Tradition in the Roman World in: Journal for the Study of Judaism Volume 53 Issue 1 (2022)

This is why the seven sons of Sceva are seen trying to perform exorcism in the Book of Acts, and using the name of Jesus not with authority but as a type of incantation. There are other inconsistencies as well, but let me post this first of all and maybe comment more a little later on.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

 

[Hidden In Him]

"

Goal Of The Gifts​

After our Lord Rose from the dead, and before He Ascended into Heaven, He
Commissioned His apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel
(Mark_16:15). Those who believed the gospel and were baptized would be
saved (v. 16), and empowered with certain supernatural abilities, known as
spiritual gifts:

“And these signs shall follow them that believe; In My name shall
they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; “They shall
take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt
them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover”
(Mark_16:17,18)...​

While the early disciples indeed displayed nearly all of these gifts, it is obvious
to most Christians that believers today no longer possess these supernatural
powers. We believe that this is because these gifts uniquely qualified those
saints to preach the gospel safely during the Great Tribulation, but that the
coming of the Tribulation was put “on hold” with the introduction of the
dispensation of Grace.

The purpose of this article will be to show how these gifts will equip the saints
to meet the unique challenges that will be present in the Tribulation period.
In so doing, we also intend to demonstrate how in the absence of these unique
challenges, there is no need for these gifts in the present dispensation...

...brief study is not meant to be...exhaustive...we rather trust
that the reader will add these few thoughts to the arsenal of
spiritual weaponry with which we must equip ourselves...​

"
(R Kurth)

FULL study:
The Goal Of The Gifts

View attachment 24069

GRACE And Peace...

Let me mention this one as well real quick. The study states:

"In the present dispensation, the filling of the Spirit is a goal as opposed to a gift (Ephesians 5:18), and men are not supernaturally controlled by the Spirit as they were at Pentecost. And since God is not filling men with His Spirit in the controlling sense today, Satan has consistently ceased his efforts to possess and control men as well."

One first needs to understand that the Spirit of God does not control men supernaturally. This is a misconception. Paul stated that the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets, which means that the exact opposite is actually true. The Spirit of God will lead you to speak but He does not control you or force you to. The only instance in scripture where this took place was in the case of Balaam, but that was because Balaam was in blatant rebellion against God and about to attempt to curse Israel for money, so the Lord averted it. But in the case of Spirit-led Christians, He does not control them. He leads them by His Spirit to speak, and when they give their consent to be used by the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit speaks through them.

The other problem in this passage is the claim that Satan no longer possesses men. If this is a reference to demonic possession having ceased then a number of modern accounts seem to contradict it. I would have to search for links if you wanted proofs, but many of the horror films that have been produced over the last 40 years on the theme of demonic possession - despite being sensationalized for dramatic effect - were based in fact.

I think your writer was pursuing a particular theory on the coincidence of Satanic works with Divine ones, which does have some precedence in scripture, but I believe he is completely inaccurate in thinking they did not exist before New Testament times and will not again until the Tribulation. This is a highly forced interpretation too far divorced from history and modern reality to have much credibility, IMO.

God bless,
- H

 

[Robert Gwin]

"

Goal Of The Gifts​

After our Lord Rose from the dead, and before He Ascended into Heaven, He
Commissioned His apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel
(Mark_16:15). Those who believed the gospel and were baptized would be
saved (v. 16), and empowered with certain supernatural abilities, known as
spiritual gifts:

“And these signs shall follow them that believe; In My name shall
they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; “They shall
take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt
them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover”
(Mark_16:17,18)...​

While the early disciples indeed displayed nearly all of these gifts, it is obvious
to most Christians that believers today no longer possess these supernatural
powers. We believe that this is because these gifts uniquely qualified those
saints to preach the gospel safely during the Great Tribulation, but that the
coming of the Tribulation was put “on hold” with the introduction of the
dispensation of Grace.

The purpose of this article will be to show how these gifts will equip the saints
to meet the unique challenges that will be present in the Tribulation period.
In so doing, we also intend to demonstrate how in the absence of these unique
challenges, there is no need for these gifts in the present dispensation...

...brief study is not meant to be...exhaustive...we rather trust
that the reader will add these few thoughts to the arsenal of
spiritual weaponry with which we must equip ourselves...​

"
(R Kurth)

FULL study:
The Goal Of The Gifts

View attachment 24069

GRACE And Peace...

A need? Yes! Is it happening? No! Will it happen? Yes, and soon! What can you do to expedite it? Pray for it! Mat 6:9,10

 

[Hidden In Him]

"

Goal Of The Gifts​

After our Lord Rose from the dead, and before He Ascended into Heaven, He
Commissioned His apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel
(Mark_16:15). Those who believed the gospel and were baptized would be
saved (v. 16), and empowered with certain supernatural abilities, known as
spiritual gifts:

“And these signs shall follow them that believe; In My name shall
they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; “They shall
take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt
them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover”
(Mark_16:17,18)...​

While the early disciples indeed displayed nearly all of these gifts, it is obvious
to most Christians that believers today no longer possess these supernatural
powers. We believe that this is because these gifts uniquely qualified those
saints to preach the gospel safely during the Great Tribulation, but that the
coming of the Tribulation was put “on hold” with the introduction of the
dispensation of Grace.

The purpose of this article will be to show how these gifts will equip the saints
to meet the unique challenges that will be present in the Tribulation period.
In so doing, we also intend to demonstrate how in the absence of these unique
challenges, there is no need for these gifts in the present dispensation...

...brief study is not meant to be...exhaustive...we rather trust
that the reader will add these few thoughts to the arsenal of
spiritual weaponry with which we must equip ourselves...​

"
(R Kurth)

FULL study:
The Goal Of The Gifts

View attachment 24069

GRACE And Peace...

My other problem with the piece is this. It states:

"The purpose of this article will be to show how these gifts will equip the saints to meet the unique challenges that will be present in the Tribulation period. In so doing, we also intend to demonstrate how in the absence of these unique challenges, there is no need for these gifts in the present dispensation."

This is in my opinion a terrible mistake. The enemy has not stopped attacking the church, particularly through deception, and this is one of the primary reasons why the gifts are still needed today IMO. Visions, dreams and prophecy reveal many things, from where we are spiritually in our own walk with God and in our callings to what the enemy is attempting to do to hinder us and others from fulfilling them. To say the gifts are not needed is essentially to say that Satan and his demons have stopped attempting to deceive the church, and this is and of itself is a deception that must be corrected.