IS THERE ONLY WATER BAPTISM?

[mailmandan]

Was John's baptism in water? YES
Was the Ephesian's re-baptism in the Lord's name in water? If YES, why? Why not the Holy Ghost then?

You ask a lot of questions. Matthew 3:11 - As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Even though there are baptism(s) plural in scripture there is only one baptism that saves and places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism (1 Corinthians 12:13) and not water baptism. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. (Romans 8:9) There was a delay in receiving the Holy Spirit until Paul laid hands on them which signified their inclusion in the church. They spoke in tongues and prophesied which gave evidence they had received the Holy Spirit and were now a part of the church, the body of Christ.

Why did they get baptized in water again if there's only one baptism and it's not by water as you continuously and erroneously claim?

As I already previously explained, they had received the baptism of John but did not realize that Jesus Christ was the One to whom John's baptism pointed. They were not yet believers. They received believers' baptism after receiving Christ through faith. By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. Compare with Ephesians 4:5 - ..one baptism. Also compare with John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 with drink(s) and see the connection with the Holy Spirit. There is nothing erroneous about these scriptures. You simply discard the truth because it does not fit your CoC narrative.

Didn't the Holy Ghost fall on them after Paul laid his hands on them? Isn't that the baptism you claim to be the only one? If they believed Paul's preaching to them about Jesus, wouldn't that have been sufficient per your line of thinking instead of being immersed in water again, and then the Holy Ghost could have fallen on them then instead of having to get immersed in water again followed by Paul laying his hands on them?

This was an exception and not the rule in regard to the delay of receiving the Holy Spirit until hands were laid on them, just as we see in Acts 8 with the Samaritans. Belief is sufficient for salvation in this exception not the rule of hands being laid on them before receiving the Holy Spirit emphasizing church unity situation in Acts 19 (and also in Acts 8) and in the general rule. (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; Romans 1:16; 3:22-26; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 John 5:13 etc..). You still don't believe?

If belief is sufficient, Paul could have just laid his hands on them with no 2nd water immersion, unless their baptism into Christ was also in Spirit and not water? You make no sense nor can your flawed logic be used to explain Acts19 and the Ephesians 2nd baptism.

So, according to your flawed logic, belief is insufficient for salvation, and these passages of scripture are a lie. (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; Romans 1:16; 3:22-26; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 John 5:13) Got it. There was a 2nd immersion because they needed to be water baptized as believers. There are folks who have been baptized as infants or as adults in false religions who were not yet believers and were re-baptized later after becoming believers, including myself. Water baptism and Spirit baptism are two distinct baptisms. (Matthew 3:11; Acts 10:43-47) My argument makes perfect sense. You simply don't understand and there is a reason for that.

 

[DJT_47]

Goodbye.

 

[mailmandan]

Goodbye.

Have a nice day.

 

[Ezra]

Goodbye.

the true word of God prevails every time

 

[Doug]

google it gezz you just want to argue to prove your point. Jesus went under the water full immersion . how many times do you need to be told ? i dont sprinkle i usually go to the river or creek . maybe a baptistry at one of the local churches

You cant give instructions about water baptism because its not found in scripture.
The problem is you have to make up your own commands regarding water baptism. You decided not to sprinkle and that causes divisions in the church because others say we should sprinkle.
You dont know Jesus was immersed. Look at this verse..........[Matthew 3:16 KJV] "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:"..........Jesus could have been standing in the water and was sprinkled then came out of the water and came unto dry ground

 

[Ezra]

..Jesus could have been standing in the water and was sprinkled then came out of the water and came unto dry ground

could have but wasn't.. he could have not arose on the 3rd day but he did .. your grasping at straws

You decided not to sprinkle and that causes divisions in the church because others say we should sprinkle.

i chose not to sprinkle cause its not in the Bible . much of what your trying to present

 

[DJT_47]

the true word of God prevails every time

That it does that's why I sometimes stop responding to morons

 

[Ezra]

That it does that's why I sometimes stop responding to morons

so we are a Moron because we dont jump on board with what your trying to push off ? you have issues

 

[DJT_47]

so we are a Moron because we dont jump on board with what your trying to push off ? you have issues

Yep. I have issues. Taking the bible verbatim at it's word without going WAY out of my way as some do here in feeble attempts to try to make the scriptures agree with what I choose to believe as opposed to agreeing with tge bible. If it was simple when written and when practiced by those 2000 years ago who questioned nothing, why has that simplicity been complicated by people today who govto extreme measures to try to bend the words and meaning to agree with their dumb ideas?

 

[Ezra]

Yep. I have issues. Taking the bible verbatim at it's word without going WAY out of my way as some do here in feeble attempts to try to make the scriptures agree with what I choose to believe as opposed to agreeing with tge bible. If it was simple when written and when practiced by those 2000 years ago who questioned nothing, why has that simplicity been complicated by people today who govto extreme measures to try to bend the words and meaning to agree with their dumb ideas?

your right you have issues called using strange fire by watering down scripture a work based salvation.. something you do to be saved

 

[DJT_47]

your right you have issues called using strange fire by watering down scripture a work based salvation.. something you do to be saved

Blah blah blah blah

 

[Butch5]

They didnt happen together in Mark 1:8 because the Holy Ghost wasnt given until Christ was risen...............[John 7:39 KJV] "(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"

It was together in Acts............[Acts 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

But look at this passage..........
[Acts 11:1 KJV] "And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God."
[Acts 11:15 KJV] "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning."
[Acts 11:16 KJV] "Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost."
Peter said the Holy Ghost was given them before water baptism and Peter even references Mark 1:8

The falling on of the Holy Spirit refers to the receiving of the gifts. When Peter says, "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning." He is referring to Pentecost when they spoke in tongues. However, they had received the Holy Spirit prior to this.

20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

They had received the Holy Spirit prior to Pentecost. Pentecost is when the Spirit "fell" upon them in power.

However, notice at Jesus' baptism. As He came up out of the water the spirit descended upon Him

 

[Butch5]

Context.
2,000 + years ago, “MEN”, (adults), primarily (Jews, first), were being Taught, “a new better Testament”…
* An Offering of Salvation, (Before Mortal Death.)

* A handful of “MEN”, chosen, given, accepted, the Task, to Teach (this new Offering).

* Little by little, bit by bit, few by few…the Teaching Was spread.

* Anciently, Historically, Modernly, Humans Naturally “struggle with Knowledge”… they “HEAR”…but do NOT “SEE”, the immediate / “Effect / Or Understanding Thereof”.

* a child can be TOLD, watch …
I will throw a ball UP, a Plane is going UP…
The UP, is SEEN, UP becomes Understood.
Teaching, Shall come DOWN, is one thing, Understanding of DOWN becomes Realized, WHEN they “SEE” it come DOWN.

* an adult, an older child nearing adulthood…
Who have Learned the Knowledge “EFFECT”, “knowledge and Understanding” of a human, submerged, DOWN, Under Water… Results IN A Bodily Death…
Unless and Until, the Body IS “shortly, quickly”, Brought UP from out of the Water.

* Water Baptism, IS an Introduction, Prelude, Teaching, via, “WORD (Hearing), WORD (Agreeing), AND VISIBLE (Seeing)…
Of the Up, Down, Up… Teaching Concept…
Regarding…
* a Living man…UP / (alive)
* having Heard Gods Word…
* Agreeing / Trusting Gods Word… for man to lay DOWN “his” life unto God…
* Freely, the man Agreeing, Trusting, Gods Word, that that man shall Again RISE UP Alive, by the Promise, Authority, Promise OF God…
AND…the Man making that VOW, Before Witnesses….The Lord God, and Often, by standers, even a whole Crowd, such as a gathered church congregation.

* Where Two or Three ARE gathered…one man with the Lord God… IS Two gathered.
The Lord God and the man ARE witnesses…
To the man’s Word, Declaration, Vow of Belief, and Willingness to Promise his own Life unto Death To and for the Lord God…
IS Satisfactory For the Lord God to Raise UP that man, (PER Gods Timing)…
* Rapture, raised UP by Christ the Lord…
(Pertaining to men, WHO accepted Gods Offering)…
Before last days Tribulations are sent down from Heaven.
Or
* First Resurrection, raised UP by God…
(pertaining to men, WHO accepted Gods Offering)…
During last days Tribulations sent down from Heaven.

No Water “example” necessary or required.

* Present day “water baptisms”…continue…to be performed, for they, who require, EXAMPLES To SEE to believe.

* Acknowledging…humans continue to be born, generations of children, ignorant, unknowing, still learning, little by little, bit by bit… hearing and “being babes”…examples to “SEE”, resonates with them.

Context and perspective.
Water does not Save.
Salvation Given, Received, IS NOT a Visible Act that human men can SEE.

Salvation “Offering” IS by, through, of The Lord God unto a “living manKind of Being”…
(Not Offered, angels, animals, plants).

Glory to God,
Taken

That was kind of a long way to know really say anything. Does water save? Let's ask Peter.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Peter said baptism saves. Since he was taught by Jesus I think his words have a little more pull.

 

[Butch5]

yes i have time to move on im dusting my shoes off at you/



thats ok I DO NOT nor will not agree with what your saying... your playing with strange fire

I expect that you would move on. What you're claiming is indefensible. Moving on is the other option.

 

[Ezra]

What you're claiming is indefensible.

in your eyes maybe , your promoting a work based salvation .

 

[Butch5]

in your eyes maybe , your promoting a work based salvation .

I gave you Scripture that literally states that baptism saves. It's not, in my eyes. The idea of "works salvation" is just something made up in an attempt to prove the erroneous Faith Alone doctrine.

 

[Taken]

That was kind of a long way to know really say anything. Does water save? Let's ask Peter.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Peter said baptism saves. Since he was taught by Jesus I think his words have a little more pull.

I have NO doubt Baptism SAVED…and SAVES
Expressly Referencing the Baptism of The Holy Spirit…(not Water)…. In Regards to A Spiritual Salvation the mans SOUL Receives.

Reference to Noah being “Saved by water”, is an EXPRESS Reference to Noah’s…
Natural BODY, being Saved From Death…
By:
Him being IN an ARK…
Him being LIFTED Up Above The Earth, as the Water continued covering the Earth.
The Earth (dry land) being Destroyed, bit by bit, by Water.
Inhabitants, ON The Earth, Running Up to Higher ground, because of the Water destroying the Earth/ dry land.
Inhabitants having no more dry Earth reach…
All drowned in the rising Waters.

Noah, BY His Obedience, of Faith, Labor and Service TO God…Constructed and Entered IN the meticulously (according to Gods Way) prepared (wood and pitch floating boat/ Ark)… which becoming surrounded with Water, rose UP higher and higher … until the boat/ Ark was …
Above the Mountain tops, IN THE CLOUDS of The Lower Heavens…With God and God With him…
While every other…living man “Without God”…suffered the End of their natural Live, by drowning IN the Water.

Then was fulfilled the prophecy…
Gen 6:
[7] And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
[17] And, behold, I, even I, (God, Word, Power) do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Noah’s Natural Body (Blood Life) … was Saved by being RAISED UP From the Face of the Earth, to the (lower) Heaven (Clouds).

Gen 7:
[4] For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
[23] And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth:
… and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Earths Destruction Accomplished…All Dry Land, no longer Dry… ——>
Gen 7:
[20] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Dry land Restored —->
Gen 8:
[1] And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;

Gen 8:
[14] And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.
[15] And God spake unto Noah, saying,
[16] Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
[17] Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.

Noah returned in his natural life (Blood), to A restored (Dry land) Earth.

Greater Understanding…
* A Man “IN” a (boat, ship, ark with provisions, water, food, grain) can be saved from a natural (life/ blood) BODY’S death.
* A Man “WITH and IN God, and God WITH and IN a Man, Saves a mans spiritual SOUL’S Life.

And…the LIFE of a SOUL to BE “MADE SAVED”…
Is ONLY Accomplished…
By GodS POWER…
AND
AFTER a mans Accounted “Bodily Death”.

Warning… another Great destruction of the Earth and its inhabitants is in the Forecast…
Some shall be risen up above the Earth…Saved.
Some on Earth shall Die and be Saved.
Some on Earth shall Die, and Not be Saved.
The Earth shall be again Restored…
And Only the Eternally Saved shall occupy the Earth Forever.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Doug]

i chose not to sprinkle cause its not in the Bible . much of what your trying to present

[Matthew 11:7 KJV] "And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?"...........This verse is talking about John the Baptist. Think about it, sounds like he had a reed that he put in the water they were STANDING IN and sprinkled those he baptized (including Jesus who was not likely immersed). John would be hard pressed to immerse the multitudes he baptized.

Sprinkling with water is Biblical...............[Numbers 8:7 KJV] "And thus shalt thou do unto them, to cleanse them: Sprinkle water of purifying upon them, and let them shave all their flesh, and let them wash their clothes, and [so] make themselves clean."

 

[Doug]

The falling on of the Holy Spirit refers to the receiving of the gifts. When Peter says, "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning." He is referring to Pentecost when they spoke in tongues. However, they had received the Holy Spirit prior to this.

20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

They had received the Holy Spirit prior to Pentecost. Pentecost is when the Spirit "fell" upon them in power.

However, notice at Jesus' baptism. As He came up out of the water the spirit descended upon Him

I agree with this

As far as John 20 he could breathe the Spirit on them because this was after he was risen

[Mark 16:17 KJV] "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;"................I think the sign of tongues Jesus spoke of here was exhibited in the following two verses.
[Acts 2:4 KJV] "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
[Acts 10:46 KJV] "For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,"

 

[Ezra]

Sprinkling with water is Biblical...............[Numbers 8:7 KJV]

that is law we live under grace you can have your water baptism salvation which == works we do .i am no longer in this strange fire discussion