Is this a prophetic fulfillment? Fig tree prophecy

[marks]

God can communicate with Christians any way He sees fit--it's His prerogative.

At the end of the day, this is the bottom line to me. I have a Creator, Who means to participate in my life. What He does with anyone else is between He and them.

I find the conscience of man to be incomplete at best.

Are you thinking in terms of the conscience that all men possess? That part of God's Law written on all men's hearts?

Are you thinking in terms of a "repaired conscience", overwritten by a more complete Law in our rebirth?

As I think about the conscience, it seems to me to be part of what is being renewed in the renewing of the mind. But that it can still lead us astray.

I realize what you are saying, that there is a part of us that knows what's right and what's wrong, and that this is the Voice of God inside us.

I need help finding my keys, and understanding difficult passages, and knowing which of the 3 seeming right ways to go is what He wants.

You speak of God desiring us to stand on our own, make our good choices, like that. I find I want nothing more than to wrap myself like a three year old around His leg, and I find my life in that. To cling to Him like a little child. And that fits how I see myself, a wreck and a failure, what did Solomon say? I don't know how to go out or come in. I need someone to lead me like a child, and He does.

2 Corinthians 3:18 tells us that it's God's glory reflected in us that transforms us into that same glorious image.

I think you are right that God's private communications with us are really for us. Like you say, not for us to declare things based on His inner voice. How many times to Christians tell each other, "I've got a word from God for you", except, it doesn't fit, doesn't make sense, and yes, we question, is that really God?

So I just talk about what I experience and know--I'll let others speak for themselves.

This has become my way too. I can't say whether or not the man spent a year living in an ecstatic state. But I can say whether or not I find his words to agree with Scripture.

My issue comes with those who have an experience with God, and suddenly they become experts on how to talk with God, or how to hear God. They think they've become a messenger boy for God, to tell everyone else how to do as they did, connect with God, and be blessed.

I chalk that up to over-exuberance, that this way must be the best way, or the only way. Of course, this can also be revealing deeper issues not yet renewed.

I really do think God speaks to us in various ways, firstly through the Bible, secondly through our thoughts, and through others, and through our circumstances.

Mostly what I tell others is, Trust Him. He knows how to speak so you will hear Him, whatever that way is, just trust Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But when someone says God spoke to them and told them Jesus is coming back before they die, then I start questioning that, particularly when they are interpreting Scriptures wrong to arrive at that understanding. Jesus did not speak of the generation that would see his Return, but rather, of the generation that would see every stone of the temple come down!

So my thing is teaching, and if someone wishes to claim God spoke to them and gave them an interpretation that I feel is wrong, I *must* question their honesty. I don't believe the guy heard from God at all. Perhaps he mixed up his own spiritual euphoria with what he thought was an exciting message, even if false.

There is a friend of mine, I've not seen him since he moved some years ago. He is an inveterate evangelist, and everywhere we went, he was constantly telling people about Jesus, and showing them love. A very precious man. When I first met him, that very night, at a home fellowship, that inner voice told me, I've never forgotten, "Your friendship with him is going to be very important one day."

After knowing him some years, something happened. To his telling, it was a vision, though later he acknowledged it was more an inner understanding, that Jesus was returning in 2021, and at that God was giving him new revelation to write, and to preach in arenas around the world. He ended up buying a Corvette, and had lettered on the sides Bible verses, and "Jesus Christ is coming in 2021", something like that. And he, being retired, drove that billboard 'vette 1000's of miles across the United States.

He told me, "If this isn't true, I'm not born again!" And he knew he was born again. That was his assurance. A vision? Delusion of grandeur? I know what we all thought! And in about 1 month, the seal of falseness is going to descend on his prophecy.

I've long felt that voice was the voice of God, that our friendship would be important. Was it Him? Time will tell. But I'm certain it's not yet been fulfilled. Will it be? He lives a 1000 miles from me, we haven't spoken in years. Is that importance to be his memory of me, though I don't see him now?

I don't think he was dishonest, but I think he failed the test of Scripture, which is what you were talking about. I feel we have to have some standard by which we can measure our 'revelations' to know if we're all wet, but then, we interpret the Bible differently, and our revelations can match our interpretations, and so it comes back to, each has their personal relationship with God, and "if in anything someone should think differently, God will reveal this", but it may not be today, or this week.

On the generation and temple and second coming, my understanding is that the generation here is specifically the Jews, and we can debate that if you wish. I love going over the material, I always come away richer when such discussions are with the right kind of people, like you. As I said, should you wish.

Anyway, I really appreciated your post, some very worthwhile things to think about!

Much love!

 

[Heart2Soul]

At the end of the day, this is the bottom line to me. I have a Creator, Who means to participate in my life. What He does with anyone else is between He and them.

I find the conscience of man to be incomplete at best.

Are you thinking in terms of the conscience that all men possess? That part of God's Law written on all men's hearts?

Are you thinking in terms of a "repaired conscience", overwritten by a more complete Law in our rebirth?

As I think about the conscience, it seems to me to be part of what is being renewed in the renewing of the mind. But that it can still lead us astray.

I realize what you are saying, that there is a part of us that knows what's right and what's wrong, and that this is the Voice of God inside us.

I need help finding my keys, and understanding difficult passages, and knowing which of the 3 seeming right ways to go is what He wants.

You speak of God desiring us to stand on our own, make our good choices, like that. I find I want nothing more than to wrap myself like a three year old around His leg, and I find my life in that. To cling to Him like a little child. And that fits how I see myself, a wreck and a failure, what did Solomon say? I don't know how to go out or come in. I need someone to lead me like a child, and He does.

2 Corinthians 3:18 tells us that it's God's glory reflected in us that transforms us into that same glorious image.

I think you are right that God's private communications with us are really for us. Like you say, not for us to declare things based on His inner voice. How many times to Christians tell each other, "I've got a word from God for you", except, it doesn't fit, doesn't make sense, and yes, we question, is that really God?


This has become my way too. I can't say whether or not the man spent a year living in an ecstatic state. But I can say whether or not I find his words to agree with Scripture.



I chalk that up to over-exuberance, that this way must be the best way, or the only way. Of course, this can also be revealing deeper issues not yet renewed.

I really do think God speaks to us in various ways, firstly through the Bible, secondly through our thoughts, and through others, and through our circumstances.

Mostly what I tell others is, Trust Him. He knows how to speak so you will hear Him, whatever that way is, just trust Him.

Much love!

I believe He speaks to us in our spirit...when we are born again, we become born of His spirit and as He now becomes our Father we communicate through the Holy Spirit in us. His Spirit in us...and as we are His temple He dwells inside us and speaks to us Spirit to spirit....
Understanding His ways requires a spiritual mind for the carnal mind is enmity against God. As we worship Him we must worship Him in spirit and in truth.
John 4 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
²³ But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
²⁴ God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The flesh is full of corruption and wars against our spirit...so to worship Him in the flesh is dead worship...there is no life in it.
How many people have complained that their church is "dead"? The move of the Holy Spirit is not present?
I hear it often...
Church attendants in body only, never receiving the power and anointing of the Holy Spirit to change their lives, bring healing and deliverance, having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof.
I am not including anyone here as being one of those people.
In conclusion we all have to work out our own salvation...and however God speaks to them is irrelevant...as long as He is speaking and we are listening and obeying His voice thats all that matters.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is a friend of mine, I've not seen him since he moved some years ago. He is an inveterate evangelist, and everywhere we went, he was constantly telling people about Jesus, and showing them love. A very precious man. When I first met him, that very night, at a home fellowship, that inner voice told me, I've never forgotten, "Your friendship with him is going to be very important one day."

After knowing him some years, something happened. To his telling, it was a vision, though later he acknowledged it was more an inner understanding, that Jesus was returning in 2021, and at that God was giving him new revelation to write, and to preach in arenas around the world. He ended up buying a Corvette, and had lettered on the sides Bible verses, and "Jesus Christ is coming in 2021", something like that. And he, being retired, drove that billboard 'vette 1000's of miles across the United States.

He told me, "If this isn't true, I'm not born again!" And he knew he was born again. That was his assurance. A vision? Delusion of grandeur? I know what we all thought! And in about 1 month, the seal of falseness is going to descend on his prophecy.

I've long felt that voice was the voice of God, that our friendship would be important. Was it Him? Time will tell. But I'm certain it's not yet been fulfilled. Will it be? He lives a 1000 miles from me, we haven't spoken in years. Is that importance to be his memory of me, though I don't see him now?

I don't think he was dishonest, but I think he failed the test of Scripture, which is what you were talking about. I feel we have to have some standard by which we can measure our 'revelations' to know if we're all wet, but then, we interpret the Bible differently, and our revelations can match our interpretations, and so it comes back to, each has their personal relationship with God, and "if in anything someone should think differently, God will reveal this", but it may not be today, or this week.

On the generation and temple and second coming, my understanding is that the generation here is specifically the Jews, and we can debate that if you wish. I love going over the material, I always come away richer when such discussions are with the right kind of people, like you. As I said, should you wish.

Anyway, I really appreciated your post, some very worthwhile things to think about!
Much love!

A couple of nice posts, and I plan to respond to both of them. You show a lot of wisdom in this post, and I agree. A lot of good Christians have made the kind of serious mistake your friend is making. It has nothing to do with how spiritually gifted or smart they are, nor does it necessarily have to do with a person's age and experience in the Lord.

The sin nature is beyond all that. It's something we must each deal with until we master it somehow. We'll never be completely free of it until the resurrection, but we can maintain control over it. As we run into each obstacle we have to learn the lesson, and keep what we've learned in our heart and practice.

This is what Jesus' message was to the 7 churches in the book of Revelation: "overcome!" With respect to discussing what "generation" Jesus was talking about, I'm open to anything that will be edifying to anybody. I'm not afraid to address any subject, though I'll have to be honest about how much I really know. Take care!

 

[Randy Kluth]

At the end of the day, this is the bottom line to me. I have a Creator, Who means to participate in my life. What He does with anyone else is between He and them.

I find the conscience of man to be incomplete at best.
Are you thinking in terms of the conscience that all men possess? That part of God's Law written on all men's hearts?
Are you thinking in terms of a "repaired conscience", overwritten by a more complete Law in our rebirth?
As I think about the conscience, it seems to me to be part of what is being renewed in the renewing of the mind. But that it can still lead us astray.
I realize what you are saying, that there is a part of us that knows what's right and what's wrong, and that this is the Voice of God inside us.

Yes, the conscience is the universal place in our human spirits where we hear God counsel us as to what is right and what is wrong. To follow the Spirit of God is to do right. To go against God's word is to do wrong.

All people have a conscience and can hear God in this way. But as you suggest, the conscience can be corrupted and is, in fact, corrupted. Some people have "seared consciences," from ignoring God's word to them over and over again. They become deaf to God's guidance in their lives.

Yes, people are blind spiritually, but still have a sense of right and wrong. Since the human conscience and mind have been corrupted by sin, I agree that the conscience can be perverted and can be misleading. To know what is God's voice and what is not may be difficult even for the Christian who has come to know God. The unbelievers may or may not have a sense of "God," but is clearly living by self-interest and independent initiative. As such, they cannot fathom the full purpose of God to instill His nature in us so that everything we choose to do is informed by the character of His Spirit.

When I say God most often speaks through our conscience, I say that because most Christians don't claim to hear God audibly direct them all the time. Certainly God does direct us regularly, but not in an audible way. It is more like making a conscientious decision, weighing what would please the Lord. Sometimes, however, God may declare exactly what we must do. I find this to be rare if it happens at all!

The reason, I think, that God chooses to speak primarily through our conscience is so as to preserve our freedom to choose the right things. If God does it for us, how does that glorify Him? But if we freely choose to do good, being informed by His Spirit, then He is truly glorified. He's proud of us as a Father! As Paul said, we aren't called to be slaves, but children. We have free run of the Kingdom, so long as we remain in the Spirit and ultimately give the Lord the opportunity to override our decisions.

I need help finding my keys, and understanding difficult passages, and knowing which of the 3 seeming right ways to go is what He wants.

You speak of God desiring us to stand on our own, make our good choices, like that. I find I want nothing more than to wrap myself like a three year old around His leg, and I find my life in that. To cling to Him like a little child. And that fits how I see myself, a wreck and a failure, what did Solomon say? I don't know how to go out or come in. I need someone to lead me like a child, and He does.

2 Corinthians 3:18 tells us that it's God's glory reflected in us that transforms us into that same glorious image.

I think you are right that God's private communications with us are really for us. Like you say, not for us to declare things based on His inner voice. How many times to Christians tell each other, "I've got a word from God for you", except, it doesn't fit, doesn't make sense, and yes, we question, is that really God?

This has become my way too. I can't say whether or not the man spent a year living in an ecstatic state. But I can say whether or not I find his words to agree with Scripture.

I chalk that up to over-exuberance, that this way must be the best way, or the only way. Of course, this can also be revealing deeper issues not yet renewed.

I really do think God speaks to us in various ways, firstly through the Bible, secondly through our thoughts, and through others, and through our circumstances.

Mostly what I tell others is, Trust Him. He knows how to speak so you will hear Him, whatever that way is, just trust Him.

Much love!

All good thoughts, brother! I love your child-like enthusiasm! I'm like that too--we shouldn't care what others think. David's wife was embarrassed for David dancing before the Lord. Why should we be ashamed to be loving children? Our spirits are truly healthy if like the prophet we can declare, "The Sovereign Lord is my strength; he makes my feet like the feet of a deer, he enables me to tread on the heights." (Hab 3.19)

 

[Heart2Soul]

A couple of nice posts, and I plan to respond to both of them. You show a lot of wisdom in this post, and I agree. A lot of good Christians have made the kind of serious mistake your friend is making. It has nothing to do with how spiritually gifted or smart they are, nor does it necessarily have to do with a person's age and experience in the Lord.

The sin nature is beyond all that. It's something we must each deal with until we master it somehow. We'll never be completely free of it until the resurrection, but we can maintain control over it. As we run into each obstacle we have to learn the lesson, and keep what we've learned in our heart and practice.

This is what Jesus' message was to the 7 churches in the book of Revelation: "overcome!" With respect to discussing what "generation" Jesus was talking about, I'm open to anything that will be edifying to anybody. I'm not afraid to address any subject, though I'll have to be honest about how much I really know. Take care!

To the Seven Churches he ended his letter saying "those who have ears, let them hear
Revelation 2 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁷ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

…
¹¹ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

…
¹⁷ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

…
²⁹ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Revelation 3 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁶ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

…
¹³ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

…
²² He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Why does He say it as such...because many do not hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying because they seek to apply the scriptures with a carnal mind....John 3 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁶ That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

…
⁸ The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

God Bless

 

[marks]

Sometimes, however, God may declare exactly what we must do. I find this to be rare if it happens at all!

When I was deathly ill a few years ago, my metabolism was all over the map, one example, I was on a pill for hypertension, plus a muscle relaxers and pain meds. So the day that I had measured 189/110 in the morning, and 105/60 in the afternoon, I lay there in bed, all my pills in my hands, knowing these make my blood pressure go high, those make my blood pressure go low, not taking this one can raise it, and I don't know how to stay alive so I can see the sunrise. God, you have to tell me, and I'm going to do what you say.

After living like that for a bit, I started to realize that I'm asking, and He's answering, and there was a lot like that.

Not an audible voice, just the same . . . there was a day I was laying in my bed, I'd dropped from 175 lbs to 152 lbs in 2 weeks, and 152 does not look good on me. I was realizing, IF I don't get out of this bed and eat something I'm going to die here! I hadn't been able to eat, or digest, and I asked Him, what can I even eat??? He told me. "Eat yogurt. And eat figs."

Yogurt! Doh!! Of course! But figs? I'd never had a fig in my life! I obeyed, and began to rebuild. I later learned figs are known for they ability in restoring nerve, muscle, and bone tissue, which was exactly what I needed. I've also since learned that if I stop eating figs, my hair falls out. Now I eat figs all the time! I love them, they sometimes taste like honey.

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

When I was deathly ill a few years ago, my metabolism was all over the map, one example, I was on a pill for hypertension, plus a muscle relaxers and pain meds. So the day that I had measured 189/110 in the morning, and 105/60 in the afternoon, I lay there in bed, all my pills in my hands, knowing these make my blood pressure go high, those make my blood pressure go low, not taking this one can raise it, and I don't know how to stay alive so I can see the sunrise. God, you have to tell me, and I'm going to do what you say.

After living like that for a bit, I started to realize that I'm asking, and He's answering, and there was a lot like that.

Not an audible voice, just the same . . . there was a day I was laying in my bed, I'd dropped from 175 lbs to 152 lbs in 2 weeks, and 152 does not look good on me. I was realizing, IF I don't get out of this bed and eat something I'm going to die here! I hadn't been able to eat, or digest, and I asked Him, what can I even eat??? He told me. "Eat yogurt. And eat figs."

Yogurt! Doh!! Of course! But figs? I'd never had a fig in my life! I obeyed, and began to rebuild. I later learned figs are known for they ability in restoring nerve, muscle, and bone tissue, which was exactly what I needed. I've also since learned that if I stop eating figs, my hair falls out. Now I eat figs all the time! I love them, they sometimes taste like honey.

Much love!

I could eat fig newtons without a problem. But the sugar would probably do me in. I'm moderately diabetic. If I needed the figs to keep my hair, I'd eat them anyway!

But yes, I think God speaks to us all the time, in a variety of ways. And you're showing that He can get quite specific.

Well, just an hour or so ago we experienced something just like that. My wife and I were discussing how to resolve a landscaping problem--a pretty big problem. And as we were outside looking at the problem, a friend came down, who I hadn't seen for some time. He had actually started the project. Then he proceeded to explain to us exactly what we should do. Pretty cool!

 

[marks]

I could eat fig newtons without a problem. But the sugar would probably do me in. I'm moderately diabetic. If I needed the figs to keep my hair, I'd eat them anyway!

I'm diabetic also. It was when I became concerned over my BG that I slowed on the figs, plus they are expensive. But after 4 times of slowing my fig consumption, and seeing my pink scalp showing more and more, then starting again, and seeing it all fill back in again convinced me. Bizarre!

Much love!

 

[marks]

There is no such thing as a "Fig Tree Generation". The idea isn't about the fig tree, it's about how we interpret the signs of the seasons, in the same way, we can understand the signs of the times.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

There is no such thing as a "Fig Tree Generation". The idea isn't about the fig tree, it's about how we interpret the signs of the seasons, in the same way, we can understand the signs of the times.

Like I quoted above to others, You have to go beyond the P'shat meaning of the text. For example, was Jesus just teaching the apostles a lesson on faith when he cursed the fig tree, or was there a deeper meaning to it which was fulfilled in 70 ad with the destruction of the temple and the extinction of the Judean date palm?

PARDES levels of Biblical interpretation (yashanet.com)

 

[marks]

Like I quoted above to others, You have to go beyond the P'shat meaning of the text. For example, was Jesus just teaching the apostles a lesson on faith when he cursed the fig tree, or was there a deeper meaning to it which was fulfilled in 70 ad with the destruction of the temple and the extinction of the Judean date palm?

PARDES levels of Biblical interpretation (yashanet.com)

We can discuss the cursing of the fig tree, but that would not override Jesus' Own explanation of the parable of the fig tree, or in Luke, the parable of all the trees.

When Jesus told a parable, and then explains the meaning of the parable, should we accept the meaning He gave, or seek after something else?

Jesus' interpretation alone has Scriptural authority.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You have to go beyond the P'shat meaning of the text.

Somehow this reads to me, you can't look at what it says, you have go by what I say it says.

I've been reading people's opinions of Scripture on forums for over 20 years, and I've read a great many different opinions. Those I find meaningful are those that are directly supported by Scripture.

This idea conflates 2 separate ideas, and adds into the interpretations a human opinion not found in the Bible, that somehow "the budding of the fig tree" is 1948 Isreal. That is entirely people's opinion, and not at all said in the Bible.

And the generation, it seems very few people are willing to accept the full meaning of the word, a generation, as in, those generated, that is, those of a common generation, which includes, "all born in the same time" (think GenX, or the Baby Boomers), "all alive at the same time" i.e. this generation, or "all who share a common origin" i.e. The Semites, or, The Jews. Various translators translate this word in all these ways. It's what it means.

To show the particular meaning in this context, that's what we need to do is to look at the context.

Matthew 24:21-35 KJV
21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25) Behold, I have told you before.
26) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Having just promised that those days of tribulation would be cut short to prevent the extermination of the Chosen, Jesus again affirms, "this generation shall not pass til all these things be fulfilled.

So we ask the question, which meaning of generation did Jesus intend?

The one and only possibility is that Jesus was speaking of a generation that existed concurrent to His speaking, "this" generation. There isn't an antecedant to "this" which would point to something else. Only, "this generation".

And of the three possibilities for which meaning of generation could fit for a people living at that time, and people living later at the end of the age would be the third, those of a common origin

And again, having just promised that the Chosen would be spared, having affirmed in the words, this generation shall not pass til all be fulfilled, He continues consistently in His prophecy, using words that are clear in their context, to tell us that in fact He is promising that a remnent of Jews would be preserved through the tribulation, which is exactly what the OT prophesies as well.

If you want in interject opinions of fig tree generations and 1948, at least recognize that's what it is. If you want to interpret according to context and word meanings and grammar and all that, that is, the normal use of language, I offer this interpretation.

If you find my interpretation is in error, I'm interested in knowing what you think the error is. Not 'I'm not being spiritual', or something empty like that, but rather, show the word I'd defining wrong, or show the quote I'm misquoting, or like that. Something substantiative.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

We can discuss the cursing of the fig tree, but that would not override Jesus' Own explanation of the parable of the fig tree, or in Luke, the parable of all the trees.

When Jesus told a parable, and then explains the meaning of the parable, should we accept the meaning He gave, or seek after something else?

Jesus' interpretation alone has Scriptural authority.

A strict literal reading of Jesus cursing the fig tree is that it is just a lesson on Faith, But there is more to this action of cursing the fig tree that was symbolic of Israel, and prophetic of what was to come upon them. The P'shat meaning of this cursing is not contradicted by this deeper meaning, But it adds to the depth of meaning of this passage.

It is the same with the parable of the fig tree. Not only is it the literal analogy of observing the seasons to know when the end will be, but it is a literal sign of that end times.

This literal reading of scripture, textualism, is the heart of why Prophecy in scripture remains concealed to the "wise" of this world because they cannot discern these Spiritual truths because they are unable to escape the logical literal reading of Scripture. They are Spiritually discerned, not mentally discerned.

So I am not disagreeing with your P'shat interpretation of these scriptures but saying, you and others are missing out on the deeper truths concealed in them because of your reliance on the literal alone. Texualism can only take you so far in understanding the truths contained in the word of God, the Holy Ghost much teach you the deep things of God (1 Corinthians 2:10)

 

[marks]

It is the same with the parable of the fig tree. Not only is it the literal analogy of observing the seasons to know when the end will be, but it is a literal sign of that end times.

So how would you substantiate your claims?

How is this not another example of someone interpretting according to their own fancy? What makes your voice different from the so many others who all claim their "special revelation"?

Why should I accept your word? Especially when it goes contrary to the plain reading of the Bible? I mean, not just that it's not found, but is actually contrary?

Do you understand what I'm asking you? I can call my claims the "true spiritual understanding", and what would you say to that? In fact I do consider my understanding to be the true spiritual understanding, hidden just as you say through veils of supposition and opinion holding onto fanciful ideas.

All I have to substantiate my claim is the way the Bible reads, but that's quite sufficient. I consider it a higher authority than you are, regardless of your claims for your "spiritual understanding". If it's not in the Bible, that's it, it's not there, so it came from somewhere else. Here, it's coming from you, but not the Bible.

Denigrate this as "textualism", or whatever, you don't bother me. I read the Bible, and I believe what I read, and I challenge you to do the same, and not go beyond that into "mysticism", and opinions.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Like I quoted above to others, You have to go beyond the P'shat meaning of the text. For example, was Jesus just teaching the apostles a lesson on faith when he cursed the fig tree, or was there a deeper meaning to it which was fulfilled in 70 ad with the destruction of the temple and the extinction of the Judean date palm?

PARDES levels of Biblical interpretation (yashanet.com)

From your link . . .

There are three rules to consider when utilizing the d'rash interpretation of a text:

1. A drash understanding can not be used to strip a passage of its p'shat meaning, nor may any such understanding contradict the p'shat meaning of any other scripture passage. As the Talmud states, "No passage loses its p'shat."
2. Let scripture interpret scripture. Look for the scriptures themselves to define the components of an allegory.
3. The primary components of an allegory represent specific realities. We should limit ourselves to these primary components when understanding the text.

I don't see you adhering to this. In your terms, the p'shat meaning of the passage is that the parable is a parable, and Jesus gives the interpretation. His interpretation excludes yours.

We have to stick to His.

Without reinterpreting His parable into an incomplete prophecy to which we fill in the details, there is no foundation for a "fig tree generation". And there is no foundation for "the blossoming of the fig tree" to be construed as the declaration of the State of Israel.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Like I quoted above to others, You have to go beyond the P'shat meaning of the text. For example, was Jesus just teaching the apostles a lesson on faith when he cursed the fig tree, or was there a deeper meaning to it which was fulfilled in 70 ad with the destruction of the temple and the extinction of the Judean date palm?

PARDES levels of Biblical interpretation (yashanet.com)

From your link . . .

Remez
Matthew 2:15 - "Out of Egypt I called my son." This is a quote from Hosea 11:1 that Matthew is applying to Yeshua. If we stuck to a literal exegesis only and researched the quote, we would have to accuse Matthew of improperly using Scripture, as Hosea is clearly speaking of the nation of Israel, and not the Messiah. Matthew however, is hinting (a remez) at the relationship between Israel and the Messiah, in this and other verses he uses.

Just a comment . . . when Matthew tells us this, we KNOW he was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Does this give us license to hunt through the Bible for passages we can appropriate for our own use and call it "the Spirit"?

I realize that is a pointed characterization, but how can such a practice be demonstrably different?

Without something authorative, we have thousands and millions of voices all claiming supernatural revelation, and all saying different things. We do have something authorative, if we will accept it as such. Our Bible.

Such thinking as portrayed above can lead to some really bizarre ideas, limitless as the imagination of men. If we stick to what is actually written, then we will find God's ideas without interjecting our own.

Much love!

 

[Keraz]

And there is no foundation for "the blossoming of the fig tree" to be construed as the declaration of the State of Israel.

But there is, because it did happen! There is no doubt that Judah, the Jewish people are referred to as the 'fig tree' in the Bible. Their return to a small part of the holy Land is nothing short of miraculous.

Matthew 24:32-34 – Christ tells us to learn from the fig tree, when it breaks into leaf, we can know that the end is near and this present generation will live to see it all.

Obviously, it was not that generation who heard His prophecy, but He means the last generation before these things take place. They ‘will live to see it all’, means within a persons lifetime. The prophecy in:

Ezekiel 12:25-28 ....it will be put off no longer, you rebellious people [the Jewish people, symbolized by the fig tree] in your lifetime, I will do what I have planned......these prophecies are for a time far off.....the Lord says: there will be no more delays, it will be done.

This tells us that within ‘your lifetime’, when the fig tree ‘breaks into leaf’, that is when Judah is again living in the holy Land, the Lord will act once more in His creation. Therefore within a lifetime of a person born on or after May 1948, even a little before; we can expect the commencement of the many prophecies about the end times.

 

[David H.]

So how would you substantiate your claims?

The Holy Spirit substantiates my claims, as does Old Testament Prophecy which refers to Judah as the Fig tree, as well as History which has Israel symbolized by the fig tree on its coinage.... It is the very essence of scripture interpreting scripture.

I don't see you adhering to this. In your terms, the p'shat meaning of the passage is that the parable is a parable, and Jesus gives the interpretation. His interpretation excludes yours.

Parables are there to conceal the mysteries of the Kingdom from those who do not Spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear. (Matthew 13:10-13) What that means is that every parable Jesus spoke has these secrets contained in them that a mental/ literal reading of will not reveal.

The P'shat is the literal interpretation which you and others cannot get beyond because you are stuck in the rules of texualism/fundamentalism which has locked out divine revelation from showing you these truths contained in scripture. There is nothing wrong with this in principle, for the Literal is basis of sound doctrine, But it becomes a form of legalism that does not allow you to learn and be Spirit taught. It Places all the mysteries of the Word of God in the box of Human understanding rather than allowing Holy Spirit the Liberty to teach us those deep things. When the Holy Spirit teaches you these mysteries the word of God comes to life....

Make room for Mystery: A. W. Tozer | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board

 

[marks]

Parables are there to conceal the mysteries of the Kingdom from those who do not Spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear. (Matthew 13:10-13) What that means is that every parable Jesus spoke has these secrets contained in them that a mental/ literal reading of will not reveal.

You are changing.

You are not, according to your own link by which you explain how you interpret, you are not going to come to an interpretation that disagrees with the surface reading.

In this instance, Jesus spoke a parable, gave it's interpretation, and that's not enough for you. But that doesn't make your view true or Biblical OR spiritual.

You are espousing a commonly held misunderstanding is all. I've shown you how Scripture actually teaches something else, something that is fully in harmony with it's context, and the other Scriptures, and it's been interesting.

Much love!