Isaiah reveals what is to be

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keras

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Even though arguing with you, Marcus, is a futile exercise, I don't mind as you keep digging and falling into holes!

Are you incapable of understanding basic truths, like the Word's of Revelation are the Word's of Jesus?
Jesus, thru John, says that 'all men slave or free', Rev 6:15, will cry out in terror, as they experience the Sixth Seal worldwide disasters. Would people lie about being shocked and terrified? The Islamic confederation that attacks Israel will die, as this event ties in with Psalm 83, but those who 'call out to the Lord', Joel 32, Acts 2:21 will be protected and saved. NOT by 'rapture' to anywhere. They will gather and travel to the Holy Land. Isaiah 66:18b-21

The wrath of Almighty God and the Lamb, IS a Day of the Lord. There have been other Days of the Lord and another will come later; the Great Day of the Sovereign Lord, Rev 16:14, at the Return.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
There have been other Days of the Lord and another will come later.
You are foolish to think so.

The Day of the Lord is a unique day according to Zechariah and according to Joel and Isaiah, it is preceded by specific signs.

Jesus reveals from the Father to John long linear narratives which put together, in sequence order, the hodge-podge of end-time visions the prophets have seen.

In the sixth Seal, there are two earthquakes - but this is hardly a desolation that reaches out in judgment upon the wicked: indeed - the Elect who are still alive and are left are upon the earth.

When the wicked hide, and not all people can do so, but all who do - and "every" is in 'all that is applicable' - those that serve kings, commanders, and the rich; are worried about their selves only.

However, the first thing Jesus does when coming on the clouds of Heaven is not take retribution, but to steal the most valuable thing in the world - those that believe in Him.

Jesus' Wrath is not yet. It is still coming though, just not at the moment those hiding think.

Or you.
 

keras

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Marcus said: The Day of the Lord is preceded by signs.
Sure, the Day of the Return of Jesus, Rev 19:11, Zech. 14:3, will come after many signs, mainly the Great Tribulation and armies gathering to attack Jerusalem. ‘As soon as that time of distress has passed….’ Matthew 24:29-30
But it is a mistake to think we will know when the Lord’s Day of wrath comes, because it will be the Day that ‘comes as a thief’, the Day of sudden destruction, 1 Thess. 5:3, that ‘in an instant’ will depopulate and devastate all of the Holy Land. Zeph. 1:14-18

What must be considered is Jesus’ Words: ‘As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when the Son of Man comes’.
When He comes first in His judgement of the nations, Hab. 3:12, He comes as the Son of Man.
1/ At the Return, He comes as the Word of God. Rev 19:13b
‘In the days of Noah, they ate, drank and married, then suddenly they were swept away!’ Matthew 24:37-38
2/ In no way will people be living normally during the G.T.!

Just these two reasons totally refute the idea that the Day of the Lord’s wrath also happens at the Return. There are many other scriptures, as well, that cannot be reconciled with that theory.
As we see from the current situation in the Middle East, it is inevitable there will be another attempt by the Islamists to ‘wipe Israel off the map’. When they do, it will be the trigger for the Lord to take action. It WILL be His Day of vengeance and wrath! Zech. 3:9b
 

keras

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[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 30:1-14 The Lord says; woe to Israel, a race of rebels who refuse His Laws. They ask for preachers to ‘give us smooth words and illusions’. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 30:15-18 These are the words of the Lord; In calm detachment lies your safety, your strength in quiet trust.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]But you would have none of it, therefore you will be put to flight.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Yet the Lord is waiting to show you His favour and compassion, for He is a God of justice. Happy are all who wait for Him![/SIZE] [Luke 12:37]
[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 30:19-24 People of Zion, weep no more. The Lord will answer you when you call for help. He gives you adversity and affliction now, but your teachers will no longer be hidden from you, you will see them with your own eyes. If you stray from the right path, you will hear a voice behind you saying- ‘this is the Way, follow it’. You will loath your images and will treat your [/SIZE]idols [sorcery, false religions, materialism, etc] [SIZE=medium]like filth.[/SIZE] [Hosea 14:8 & Ezekiel 11:18]
[SIZE=medium]The Lord will give rain and the Land will produce rich crops. Your livestock will prosper.[/SIZE] [Isaiah 41:17-19 & Ezekiel 34:14-16]

[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 30:25-28 On the Day of slaughter, when fortresses fall, streams of water will flow from every hill. The moon will shine like the sun and sunlight will be seven times brighter on the Day the Lord heals the wounds of His people. [/SIZE][Isa. 63:4]
[SIZE=medium]See the Lord Himself comes from afar, with anger and wrath, in dense clouds of smoke. His breath is a rushing torrent, He shakes the nations in a sieve of destruction[/SIZE]. [Ezekiel 30:2-5, Habakkuk 3:12, Rev. 6:12-17]

[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 30:29-33 Then the Lord will make His voice heard in majesty and reveal His arm descending in fierce anger, with devouring flames, thunder and hail. [Heb 10:27][/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] For at His voice, Assyria’s strength fails, His punishing Rod strikes them down.[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]A fire pit is prepared by Jerusalem, ready for the Lord to set it ablaze with His breath, like a stream of burning sulphur.[/SIZE] Ezekiel 20:47-48
[SIZE=medium] But for you there will be songs and gladness of heart as you march to music, on the way to the Mountain of the Lord.[/SIZE] [Zech. 10:10-12, Psalm 68:7-12]
[SIZE=medium]Ref, REB some verses abridged[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Verse 10 is appropriate for our days, as false religions, prosperity theology, etc. are preached everywhere. Hosea 4:7-11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Verses 25-28 & 30-33 The Day of Trumpets, Joel 2:1-2, the Lords Day of vengeance, a fire judgement on His enemies, as we are told in verse 26, will be a massive explosion of the sun that will literally fulfil all the prophesies about that Day. 10 days later comes the Day of Atonement and His people are healed and redeemed. Isaiah 51:4-8, Hosea 2:14-23, Ezekiel 37 & 20:34-38[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Verse 29 Then they gather into all of the Promised Land. Jeremiah 33:6-14, Psalm 107 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Verses 19-24 are for the period after His people, all Israel, are resettled in the Land. They will have God given leaders and teachers to guide them until Jesus Returns.[/SIZE]
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
Marcus said: The Day of the Lord is preceded by signs.
Sure, the Day of the Return of Jesus, Rev 19:11, Zech. 14:3, will come after many signs, mainly the Great Tribulation and armies gathering to attack Jerusalem. ‘As soon as that time of distress has passed….’ Matthew 24:29-30
You have the order wrong again. It is not the Great Tribulation and then armies gathering to attack Jerusalem -

But the encampment of the anti-Christ around Jerusalem, which means the army with him has already come, - Luke 21:20
The erection of the abomination - the talking image of the anti-Christ - in the Temple, - Mt 24:15 & Rev 13:14-15
Then the false prophet announces two laws, and those laws make the Great Tribulation so terrible for the Elect (only). - Rev 13:15-16 & Mt 24:21

The Great Tribulation goes on to the sun/moon/star event and that heralds the Day of the Lord. - Mt 24:30
THEN the Elect are gathered up: the Rescue of Mt 24:31 which matches 1Th 4:16 and the Harvest of Rev 14:14-16 - on the Day of the Lord coincidental with the Sixth Seal!

You say Wrath cannot follow Rescue and both be on the Day of the Lord, but you are in violation of both the Olivet Discouse and Isa 13:9; 24:21; Joel 2:11.
• Gog/Magog War - flash flood invasion of Holy Land
.....o Armies surround Jerusalem - pitches his tent at the Holy Mountain.
Midpoint Abomination - Setting up the talking image of the anti-Christ
.....o Those in Judea flee / Remnant protected
.....o Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever
.....o “Mikael" arises
.....o Two Witnesses 1260 days - call down Wrath
.....o Great Tribulation - the Elect are persecuted
Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD
.....o Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man
.....o Jesus touches down on Mount Zion
..........Jews flee through the cleft of the Mount of Olives
.......... Mustering the 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion
.......... 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked
.....o Jesus resurrects the Saints / Last Trumpet
..........Dead in Christ
.......... Martyr's deeds will be remembered (Two Witnesses left behind)
.....o Deliverance = Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the clouds
..........Those who are alive and are left
.....o Great Multitude arrives in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation
.....o Books / Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal
.....o First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned
.......... Avenging Angels – supplying Blood and managing the Fire - Day of the Lord Wrath


keras said:
But it is a mistake to think we will know when the Lord’s Day of wrath comes, because it will be the Day that ‘comes as a thief’, the Day of sudden destruction, 1 Thess. 5:3, that ‘in an instant’ will depopulate and devastate all of the Holy Land. Zeph. 1:14-18
This "instant" destruction is belied by the Wrath of God as expressed in the Trumpets "Thirds" and "Woes" followed by the Bowl Judgments. God's Wrath takes time.

Suddenly, God's Judgment will come on them. It does not come all at once, nor is it over right away.
keras said:
When He comes first in His judgement of the nations, Hab. 3:12, He comes as the Son of Man.
This is kind of a meaningless statement. The "Son of Man" is how Jesus referred to Himself more than any other euphemism. That has nothing to do with Hab 3:12. The problem with just putting a mish-mash of Bible verses together and saying it's Scriptural is that it equates without proof.
keras said:
1/ At the Return, He comes as the Word of God. Rev 19:13b
‘In the days of Noah, they ate, drank and married, then suddenly they were swept away!’ Matthew 24:37-38
2/ In no way will people be living normally during the G.T.!
1. Rev 19:13b is the preparation for the final battle of Armageddon which happens after the Bowl Judgments, which happen after the Harvest of Saints in chapter 14. Rev 19:13b is NOT on the Day of the Lord, which is when Christ returns anew. (Chapters 13 through 16 are a parallel account within the book of Revelation of just the one 'seven' with its two halves.)

So Jesus does not come AS the Word of God; that is His Name.

Secondly for the italics, Noah was rescued by entering the Ark before God's Wrath came as the Flood.

2. People will be living normally during the Great Tribulation!
- All that is required is that you disobey Jesus' command not to worship the talking image of the anti-Christ nor take the mark of the beast.
-- Those that do worship the abomination and take the mark of the beast will live normally during the Great Tribulation.
---It is only when the Day of the Lord comes immediately after those days (effectively ending them) do the wicked suffer for failing this test of faith.

However, during the Great Tribulation, those Christians who obey Christ will be put to death. That is completely unjust and the killing will dwarf the Holocaust.

The Great Tribulation is only distressful to the faithful.
keras said:
Just these two reasons totally refute the idea that the Day of the Lord’s wrath also happens at the Return.
No, those reasons themselves are in error to begin with, so they cannot add up to the conclusion you state.
Jesus will resurrect the Dead in Christ and Rapture the Elect on the Day of the Lord.

Then, after He has delivered them to the "barn" of Heaven, He will trample out His Wrath on the very same Day of the Lord. Prophecy says it.

keras said:
As we see from the current situation in the Middle East, it is inevitable there will be another attempt by the Islamists to ‘wipe Israel off the map’. When they do, it will be the trigger for the Lord to take action. It WILL be His Day of vengeance and wrath! Zech. 3:9b
Nope again. The attempt by the muslims to wipe Israel off the map will NOT be the trigger for the Lord to take action.

When the "South", the muslims, are about to take on Israel, the false prophet will give the okay to nuke them. In all probability this will be Iran.

This action will lead to a reprisal by the King of the North who will invade Israel so as to punish her for breaking the peace.

This leads to his encampment around the Holy Mountain at Jerusalem. He first has to 'get there' before he can arrive at the Temple.

It is when the talking image of the anti-Christ is revealed that 'One who is like God' arises. The first reaction is the arrival of the Two Witnesses.
Here is a news article with an insight of who gives the final okay in Israel.
 

keras

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Marcus said: The Great Tribulation is only distressful to the faithful.

Anybody agree with this statement?
If not, I give you the pleasure of refuting it, a very easy task!
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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The Church has been persecuted many times in ancient history.

It is being persecuted today in certain countries, but not on the scale of Roman persecution.

In the one first half of the 'seven' the anti-Christ will wage war on the Saints; this is being set up today through the homosexual movement and political correctness.

In the Great Tribulation, once again there will be wholesale persecution of Christians to enact suffering and death - so as to wipe them out. This will kill tens of millions - unjustly.

Absent the intervention from God the Father on the 'unknown' Day of the Lord when Jesus rescues those who are still alive and are left - evil would succeed in doing just that.

So the Great Tribulation, revealed as originating with the midpoint abomination in Revelation 13 only affects those who don't worship the abomination or take his mark. This act of disobedience - which carries a death sentence from the human authorities that rule over us - is commanded of us by Jesus directly.

So the Great Tribulation only falls to those who obey Christ Jesus. The wicked will buy and sell just as they do now, yet the peace and safety they want will be denied them when Jesus comes to snatch us up and the Wrath of God follows on the Day of the Lord.

The Great Tribulation will be the worst time of persecution the Church has ever endured and it will never be equaled again.
 

keras

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Marcus O'Reillius, you are a genuine seeker of the truth and I take no pleasure in having to refute your take on Bible prophecy.

But your serious errors must be addressed for the sake of everyone; who now face the imminent commencement of the last days events.

The Great Tribulation judgement/punishments of the 7 Trumpets, Rev 8-9, and the 7 Bowls, Rev. 16, are directed only against those who have NOT received God's mark on their foreheads. Rev 9:4 and all who refuse to repent of their murders, sorcery, fornications or their robberies. Rev 9:21 and against those who have shed the blood of Your people.... Rev 16:5-6

The Lord's righteous people, all who have maintained their faith, will be taken to a place of safety on the earth, well away from Israel. They are the "woman' of Rev. 12.
But as the One World Govt will be established soon after the Sixth Seal disaster and the Anti-Christ leader will demand that everyone take his 'mark', this will call for the endurance of God's people, all those who keep His commands and remain loyal to Jesus. Rev. 14:9-12 Until the mid-point of the last 7 years, then the AC invades Beulah, the new nation in all of the Holy Land, as Zechariah 14:1-2 describes and those who refused to agree with the 7 year treaty are the 'half who will go into exile'. Daniel 11:32

Your contention that the Sixth seal takes place at the Return is wrong, as any straightforward reading of Revelation makes clear. The Seals, Trumpets and Bowls sequence is the one narrative we can trust as true and will happen in that order. To think that what is described in Rev. 6:12-17 is just a warning or a notice of what will happen at the Return, is impossible to believe by anyone plain reading of what is written.
The terrible, sudden and shocking worldwide disaster that will be the Sixth Seal, is the event that enables the establishment of the O.W.G. But for the Lord's people; everyone who bears His Name, Isaiah 43:5-7 have no fear, for I am with you....
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Jesus defines the Great Tribulation as a specific and unique time in the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24.

Jesus gives the sequence of events as the midpoint abomination of Daniel (9:27) - then the Great Tribulation - then the sun/moon/star event which PRECEDES the Day of the Lord.

Revelation reveals further information. The sixth Seal also xo taons the sun/moon/star event - SO the Great Tribulation comes before it, possibly lining up in some manner with the fifth Seal martyrs.

Therefore, the Great Tribulation does not concern God's Wrath which goes forth only when the seventh Seal is broken and the Scroll is opened. It is there that the "desolations which have decreed" from Daniel 9:26 have been stored.

So you accuse me of error in error. I find your eschatology to be poorly thought out and not a serious pursuit. The old adage applies. I will probably cease arguing with you lest people confuse me with your foolishness.

(Not that many frequent this board and no one else has joined in. Your silly notions are really not worth my time.)
 

BlackManINC

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
Jesus defines the Great Tribulation as a specific and unique time in the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24.

Jesus gives the sequence of events as the midpoint abomination of Daniel (9:27) - then the Great Tribulation - then the sun/moon/star event which PRECEDES the Day of the Lord.

Revelation reveals further information. The sixth Seal also xo taons the sun/moon/star event - SO the Great Tribulation comes before it, possibly lining up in some manner with the fifth Seal martyrs.

Therefore, the Great Tribulation does not concern God's Wrath which goes forth only when the seventh Seal is broken and the Scroll is opened. It is there that the "desolations which have decreed" from Daniel 9:26 have been stored.

So you accuse me of error in error. I find your eschatology to be poorly thought out and not a serious pursuit. The old adage applies. I will probably cease arguing with you lest people confuse me with your foolishness.

(Not that many frequent this board and no one else has joined in. Your silly notions are really not worth my time.)
Can't expect people to join in when the message he is trying to convey is a garbled heap of horse manure.
Marcus O'Reillius
Nope again. The attempt by the muslims to wipe Israel off the map will NOT be the trigger for the Lord to take action.

When the "South", the muslims, are about to take on Israel, the false prophet will give the okay to nuke them. In all probability this will be Iran.

This action will lead to a reprisal by the King of the North who will invade Israel so as to punish her for breaking the peace.

This leads to his encampment around the Holy Mountain at Jerusalem. He first has to 'get there' before he can arrive at the Temple.

It is when the talking image of the anti-Christ is revealed that 'One who is like God' arises. The first reaction is the arrival of the Two Witnesses.

Here is a news article with an insight of who gives the final okay in Israel.
'

Quick question, from where exactly does this King of the North come from as you see it? What "North" is Daniel referring to?
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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BlackManINC said:
Quick question, from where exactly does this King of the North come from as you see it? What "North" is Daniel referring to?
The book of Daniel is all about God's sovereignty over the nations. It is the one place to see a human timeline of nations.

I look to the broad overview in Daniel 2. There, the end Kingdom is an inferior version of Rome, but this time "mixed" with clay. That word "mixed" is a double entendre: as a verb, it means 'mixed', but as a noun it means 'steppe dweller'. It is spelled 'arab, and it's where we get that word.

Today, muslims make up just a percent of America, but 20% or more of Western Europe. I think we have realized the vision Daniel saw from Nebuchadnezzar's dream.

In Revelation 13:2, we see the final terrible beast of a nation is comprised of the three previous beasts of Daniel 7. I do not equate the first three parts of the statue to the first three beasts. Daniel names the animals representing the second and third Kingdoms of chapter 2, and they differ from the chapter 7. Furthermore, in 7:12, the first three survive the slaying of the fourth. It is as if the head of the beast of a nation is severed with the capture of the anti-Christ and false prophet at Atmageddon and the control it exerted to keep that federation together is broken as well.

I am looking for a federation of three supreme nations, which in turn, will be ruled by a body of ten ministers who act as Kings. This terrible beast will unite the northern half of the Northern Hemisphere. It acts very much like Rome, and indeed draws its culture from it as well as its heredity.
 

BlackManINC

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Mistaken post
Marcus O'Reillius said:
The book of Daniel is all about God's sovereignty over the nations. It is the one place to see a human timeline of nations.
I look to the broad overview in Daniel 2. There, the end Kingdom is an inferior version of Rome, but this time "mixed" with clay. That word "mixed" is a double entendre: as a verb, it means 'mixed', but as a noun it means 'steppe dweller'. It is spelled 'arab, and it's where we get that word. Today, muslims make up just a percent of America, but 20% or more of Western Europe. I think we have realized the vision Daniel saw from Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
In Revelation 13:2, we see the final terrible beast of a nation is comprised of the three previous beasts of Daniel 7. I do not equate the first three parts of the statue to the first three beasts. Daniel names the animals representing the second and third Kingdoms of chapter 2, and they differ from the chapter 7. Furthermore, in 7:12, the first three survive the slaying of the fourth. It is as if the head of the beast of a nation is severed with the capture of the anti-Christ and false prophet at Atmageddon and the control it exerted to keep that federation together is broken as well.
I am looking for a federation of three supreme nations, which in turn, will be ruled by a body of ten ministers who act as Kings. This terrible beast will unite the northern half of the Northern Hemisphere. It acts very much like Rome, and indeed draws its culture from it as well as its heredity.
Well I don`t see the relation the statue of Daniel 2 has with the four beasts of chapter 7 at all. The book of Daniel only makes since to me when separating the four kingdoms of the statue, of Daniel 2 as fulfilled prophecy, and the four beasts of Daniel 7 as a latter days prophecy pending completion. Daniel makes it clear that the four beasts arise at the same time as contemporaries out of the sea, who will combine as the beast with seven heads and ten horns of Revelation, eventually forming a true global empire not long after Apollyon, the "little horn" rises out of the pit. If you`ve seen my other threads, I make the case that the key to the pit will be opened in Europe, or to be more specific, from Switzerland. So in a sense it will at least begin in the northern part of the northern hemisphere, but the empire will eventually encompass all four corners, pushing furthur north, west south into Africa and will then push east on its way to Israel, which to my recollection is what Daniel refers to as the "pleasent land" in chapter 8.
 

keras

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I will leave you, Marcus to your 'flights of fancy'. You, BlackmanINC, to your fertilizer business, Trekson to his dream of being a harp player in heaven and for me, I will take the good advice of Jesus in Matthew 7:6
 

BlackManINC

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keras said:
I will leave you, Marcus to your 'flights of fancy'. You, BlackmanINC, to your fertilizer business, Trekson to his dream of being a harp player in heaven and for me, I will take the good advice of Jesus in Matthew 7:6

Fertilizer business??? :mellow: :rolleyes: :lol: <_<

Yeah, buddy, I'll leave you to your woeful, blown out of proportion misinterpretations of scripture, and I'll just continue on letting the Bible speak for itself and letting all men, including you stand as liars.