Israel is a miracle nation=God"s Eternal Chosen People.

[Jay Ross]

Don't remember your reply?
Your reply: "God in Ex 20:4-6 had prophesised that Israel would be actively involved in idolatrous worship during the first two ages of their existence and that in the third and fourth age, the iniquities of their first two ages would be visited upon them. After the end of the Fourth age, God has undertaken to clean them by washing them in clear water. So many people have wiped Israel out of God's Plan for the salvation of mankind. Israel at the end of the fourth age will repent of their sin of idolatry and they will be redeemed and God will renew His covenant of a Nation of Priests and a Holy nation with Israel. God still has a purpose for Israel to be His Kingdom of Priests so that all of the earth can be blessed by Them."

This "washing in water [baptism], "repenting of idolatry", "redeemed" and "a Holy Nation of Kings and Priests" already happened in the first century during the Fourth Kingdom or Age. Fifth is Roman / Christian [iron and clay] and sixth is Jesus's Kingdom on earth. These four baptism, repenting, redeemed and a Holy Kingdom are the understanding of the Messiah's message for Christians.

Hello, your understanding of the Daniel 2, statue prophecy, is a little inaccurate. I agree with your first three segments of the Statue being Babylon, Medes/Persians and then the Greeks, but the Greeks dismantled Babylon and forced the Babylonians out and scattered them throughout the rest of their empire. Jeremiah in Jer 50: 39 tells us that this is so. In Revelation 16: 19b, we are also told that after WW1, that Babylon would be remembered once more before God: - Rev 16:19b: - And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. This occurred around 1926 when Iraq was formed as a nation to occupy the land of Babylon once again.

Jeremiah in this same chapter also tells us the following: -

Jeremiah 50: 4 - 7

4 "In those days and in that time," says the Lord,
"The children of Israel shall come,
They and the children of Judah together;
With continual weeping they shall come,
And seek the Lord their God.
5 They shall ask the way to Zion,
With their faces toward it, saying,
'Come and let us join ourselves to the Lord
In a perpetual covenant
That will not be forgotten.'
6 "My people have been lost sheep.
Their shepherds have led them astray;
They have turned them away on the mountains.
They have gone from mountain to hill;
They have forgotten their resting place.
7 All who found them have devoured them;
And their adversaries said, 'We have not offended,
Because they have sinned against the Lord, the habitation of justice,
The Lord, the hope of their fathers.'
​

Israel is still searching for the way to reach Zion at this present time. They have not yet been redeemed etc.

It seems to me that you are not understanding the significance of the Scriptures.

 

[Stranger]

Perhaps I was not as clear as I could have been.

"At present, God does not require/want Israel, whom he will redeem and then renew His covenant of a nation of Priests and a Holy Nation and His possession among the nation(s) with in the near future, settled in the land of Canaan, He still requires them to be scattered among the nations so that they will be a blessing to all of the peoples of the earth, during the millennium age."

That is the point, the scriptural passage Ezekiel 34 :11-16 which I quoted in my original post, is making.

Sadly, the way it has been translated into English does not convey that message,.

Genesis 15:16 which is the passage applicable to the return of some of Abraham's descendants in 1948 to the land of Canaan, was achieved through the strength of man, without any "active" involvement from God, unlike the previous prophecy with respect to God actively involved in taking Israel out of Egypt as prophesied in Genesis 15: 13-14.

Genesis 15:12-14: - 12 Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. 13 Then He said to Abram: "Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. 14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions.​

In Genesis 15:16, God does not indicate any involvement in the descendants returning to the land of Canaan.

Genesis 15:16: - 16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete." ​

The other thing to note is that the above two prophecies are separated by a one verse prophecy which is specific to Abraham.

Therefore, in 1948, God did not bring Israel back to the Land of Canaan, as He still requires them to be scattered among the nations so that they can be a blessing to all of the nations during the Millennium Age.

Shalom

Israel is not scattered today so that they can be a blessing to all nations later. She is scattered because of her rebellion and rejection against God and Jesus Christ. Due to her fall, God is calling out the Gentiles until the time appointed when He is ready to again deal with the nation Israel. During the Millennnium Israel will not be a blessing because she is 'scattered'. She will be a blessing because she will be a nation of God located in the land of Israel and be a light to the world from that location.

The point of (Ez. 34:11-16) is that God will bring Israel back to the land. (13) It is from the land that Israel will be a blessing to the world.

Why doesn't (Gen. 15:16) involve Israel returning to the land? "But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full." And that return was done by Joshua with Israel coming out of Egypt. The land is all important to God.

Stranger

 

[zipzaddle]

Hello, your understanding of the Daniel 2, statue prophecy, is a little inaccurate. I agree with your first three segments of the Statue being Babylon

I learned something from your Exodus verses. Much to learn, one can never stop and think they know it all, because that is when the knowledge stops and the enjoyment of discovering God. Moving ahead ever closer to the truth and always happy times ahead.

 

[Jay Ross]

Israel is not scattered today so that they can be a blessing to all nations later. She is scattered because of her rebellion and rejection against God and Jesus Christ. Due to her fall, God is calling out the Gentiles until the time appointed when He is ready to again deal with the nation Israel. During the Millennnium Israel will not be a blessing because she is 'scattered'. She will be a blessing because she will be a nation of God located in the land of Israel and be a light to the world from that location.

The point of (Ez. 34:11-16) is that God will bring Israel back to the land. (13) It is from the land that Israel will be a blessing to the world.

Why doesn't (Gen. 15:16) involve Israel returning to the land? "But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full." And that return was done by Joshua with Israel coming out of Egypt. The land is all important to God.

Stranger

The concept that only some of Abraham's descendants have returned to the land and are trying to force God's hand into redeeming them, means that there are still many Israelites scattered throughout the nations of the earth. Yes God chose to scatter Israel because of her rebellion of Idolatrous worship, to the four corners of the earth. A point on which we both agree. However, Ezekiel 34:13 needs to be unpacked and the imagery used, understood. I have a different understanding of what the imagery of this verse means to your more literal interpretation.

I have come to the understanding that God is speaking about planting Israel in the good soil of salvation, and teach them about the religious understanding of the scriptures, i.e. the mountains of Israel, where they are living, at that point in time, by the rivers and all of the inhabited places of the earth. Since only a percentage of the Israelites have returned to the land, i.e. the land of Canaan, then God is indicating in this verse that He will teach the Israelites where they living scattered throughout the nations of the earth.

Sadly, the translators of the Hebrew had the same point of view as you do with regards to Israel. That is why this verse is giving us a contrary message to the original intended message of the verse. Too many people are focused on Israel receiving the "land" now and not in our distant future when God intends to give them their inheritance.

If our understanding has been skewed in this small matter, then it will also be skewed in understanding the more important issues covered within the scriptures.

Shalom

 

[Stranger]

The concept that only some of Abraham's descendants have returned to the land and are trying to force God's hand into redeeming them, means that there are still many Israelites scattered throughout the nations of the earth. Yes God chose to scatter Israel because of her rebellion of Idolatrous worship, to the four corners of the earth. A point on which we both agree. However, Ezekiel 34:13 needs to be unpacked and the imagery used, understood. I have a different understanding of what the imagery of this verse means to your more literal interpretation.

I have come to the understanding that God is speaking about planting Israel in the good soil of salvation, and teach them about the religious understanding of the scriptures, i.e. the mountains of Israel, where they are living, at that point in time, by the rivers and all of the inhabited places of the earth. Since only a percentage of the Israelites have returned to the land, i.e. the land of Canaan, then God is indicating in this verse that He will teach the Israelites where they living scattered throughout the nations of the earth.

Sadly, the translators of the Hebrew had the same point of view as you do with regards to Israel. That is why this verse is giving us a contrary message to the original intended message of the verse. Too many people are focused on Israel receiving the "land" now and not in our distant future when God intends to give them their inheritance.

If our understanding has been skewed in this small matter, then it will also be skewed in understanding the more important issues covered within the scriptures.

Shalom

No one has said that some of Abraham's descendants are trying to force God's hand. And neither does (Ez. 34:11-16) say that. It says God will bring them back into the land. And, as I said, the land is all important to God. And God's blessing upon Israel will be when they are back in the land and in a right relationship with God. Israel scattered is an Israel under judgement. Your term 'unpacked' means you make it what you want to say. Which I reject.

Your second paragraph makes as much sense as the last sentence in it.

The translators did their job. You just don't like it. I certainly don't trust your 'translation' or 'unpacking'. Good grief.

Indeed, and you have been skewered.

Stranger

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Dan 2:32 ... head was of fine gold, ... breast and his arms of silver, ... belly and thighs of brass, (33) ... legs of iron, ... feet part of iron and part of [the potter's] clay. (34) ... stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. (35) ... iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors ... the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them ... the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
6 Kingdoms the last being Christian Kingdom
1st Gold - Babylon / 2nd Silver - Persia / 3rd Bronze - Greece / 4th Iron - Rome
Messiah Comes
5th Iron and Potter's Clay - Roman/Christian Era / 6th Christian Kingdom

4 Kingdoms / Messiah Comes / Israel Destroyed
Dan 2 (38) ...Thou art this head of gold. (39) And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. (40) And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Roman / Christian Era - Christian Beliefs and Roman Idolatry Worship
(41) And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with potter's clay. (42) And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

1056 AD West (Idol Rome) and East (Christian) Split
(43) And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. (44) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Jesus's Kingdom
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold...

70 AD Satanic Israel Destroyed (Rev 18)
1070 AD Satan Freed after 1000 Years (Jews? Join Society Edinburgh)
Jesus said, "Who say they are Jews, but are not" and many prominent Jewish leaders in recent history have said Israel is not Jewish.
4th Age or Kingdom Age Israel was washed of their sins (baptism), some did repent of their idolatry. God allowed one generation (40 years) for repentance. Paul and the other Apostles were Israel and are the leaders of God's Kingdom. 70 AD Israel was destroyed. God's Kingdom is in Heaven. And will return [Revelation 21].
Everyone has a chance to be in God's Kingdom. God is not an enemy to them they are an enemy to God. A person cannot serve both good and evil. I love to hate and I hate to love does not mean one loves. Israel has deceived the nations and I hope a person can see this and join in God's Kingdom.

I would point out that true Israel can never be destroyed and it was never destroyed, when the tribes of Israel and Judah fell, there was the ones who remained and when Jesus came the people who followed him took on Jesus as the King of Israel, Jesus was always the King of Israel from the beginning of time to the end. Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
When one becomes Born Again you are as one with the Holy Spirit and are of the Kingdom of God abiding in Heaven as Jesus said to Nathaniel that he would see the Angels coming down and ascending back going on.

Anyone who looks to something other than Jesus Christ is a Anti-Christ and the world is becoming so Anti-Christ everywhere you look, fools are looking to the So called Jews, how stupid can one get and they look to the Satanic Jews who bag the true Jews full on, the true Jews follow the books of the OT and live it and are not Anti-God.
The Satanic so called Jews are of the Talmud Whore just a mad mans works of Satan and false Zionist, it is not Biblical Zion at all.
The Golden Calf mob were the same as this mob of Satanist, they do not follow in Holy Moses but there own gods they idolise. by there works you shall know them, just look at the State they cunningly called Israel, it's a house of Sodom and all who idolise this Whore are the ones who are trying to destroy peoples Souls with there Socialist gods Political correctness filth brainwashing all with degenerate grubs dictating all sorts of stupid nonsense, like that you can not call a man a man or a woman a woman because you may offend the queers, Australia's former PM just got kicked of face book for bagging such moronic rubbish being dictated in our Army.
Freedom of speech in Australia is a thing of the past and we are becoming a satanic socialist dictatorship, our Christian values are eroded to nothing now, and we have to fit in with the Islam and Islam is telling us what to do, we can not point out things against Islam, they are set to rule us, because of the Political Correctness that people idolise nowadays.

Political Correctness is the doorway to Satan.
Fact is nothing is correct about anything political, not to mention that the truth never is looked up to in anything political, it's a cesses pit of vipers and skulduggery.

 

[Jay Ross]

No one has said that some of Abraham's descendants are trying to force God's hand. And neither does (Ez. 34:11-16) say that. It says God will bring them back into the land. And, as I said, the land is all important to God. And God's blessing upon Israel will be when they are back in the land and in a right relationship with God. Israel scattered is an Israel under judgement. Your term 'unpacked' means you make it what you want to say. Which I reject.

Your second paragraph makes as much sense as the last sentence in it.

The translators did their job. You just don't like it. I certainly don't trust your 'translation' or 'unpacking'. Good grief.

Indeed, and you have been skewered.

Stranger

So be it Stranger. You can believe what you want and that the translators have got all of their translation of the base reference texts right. It has been my experience, that when a person begins to look at the original texts and search out the meanings of the Hebrew or Greek texts that the translations are exposed as not being infallible as some wish them to be.

I also agree that you should research, what I post as my English paraphrases of the base reference texts in comparison to "traditional" English translations.

If, however, you only used the "traditional" English translations as your reference source to debunk what I am posting, then you are not doing justice to researching out for yourself what the original language text message is, at all.

As such, you do not know who is actually correct in their English paraphrasing, of the original texts.

So be it.

 

[Stranger]

So be it Stranger. You can believe what you want and that the translators have got all of their translation of the base reference texts right. It has been my experience, that when a person begins to look at the original texts and search out the meanings of the Hebrew or Greek texts that the translations are exposed as not being infallible as some wish them to be.

I also agree that you should research, what I post as my English paraphrases of the base reference texts in comparison to "traditional" English translations.

If, however, you only used the "traditional" English translations as your reference source to debunk what I am posting, then you are not doing justice to researching out for yourself what the original language text message is, at all.

As such, you do not know who is actually correct in their English paraphrasing, of the original texts.

So be it.

You have a doctrine concerning Israel that you want to make Scripture fit. Thus you must question the translator's and the versions of the Bible used. But, your so called 'unpacking' does not stand up to Scripture. Until you twist it.

Stranger

 

[zipzaddle]

Anyone who looks to something other than Jesus Christ is a Anti-Christ and the world is becoming so Anti-Christ everywhere you look, fools are looking to the So called Jews, how stupid can one get and they look to the Satanic Jews who bag the true Jews full on, the true Jews follow the books of the OT and live it and are not Anti-God.

Messianic Judaism is a movement believes that Jesus is the Messiah with elements of Judaism and Jewish tradition. Messianic Judaism believe that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and the New Testament is influential scriptures. Salvation in Messianic Judaism is acceptance of Jesus as Savior, and the Jewish laws or customs which they follow do not contribute to salvation. Belief in Jesus as the Messiah, His power to save, and His divinity are the distinctions between Christianity and Judaism.

Many people of Messianic Judaism consider themselves Jewish and see their movement as a sect of Judaism. Many refer to themselves as Jew “Believers” and not Christian. Israel does not recognize Messianic Judaism and regards them as Christians. Messianic Judaism does not want to be associated with Christianity, because most Christians do not understand or follow G-D's divine Word. Messianic Jews have a high respect for G-D compared to most Non-Jews.

With information readily available in the 21st century more Jews are discovering the Messiah Jesus. The movement began in the 1960s and 1970s and from 2003 to 2007, the movement grew from 150 Messianic houses of worship in the United States to as many as 438, with over 100 in Israel and more worldwide. As of 2012 there were between 175,000 and 250,000 members in the United States, between 10,000 and 20,000 members for Israel, and an estimated total worldwide membership of 350,000. Their congregations are often affiliated with larger Messianic organizations or alliances.

Jews are diligently taught the OT knowledge therefore are the most knowledgeable people on understanding G-D. If a Non-Jewish Christian wanted to learn more they should seek a Messianic Jewish teacher.

 

[Jay Ross]

You have a doctrine concerning Israel that you want to make Scripture fit. Thus you must question the translator's and the versions of the Bible used. But, your so called 'unpacking' does not stand up to Scripture. Until you twist it.

Stranger

I am sorry, but you have made a very wrong assumption as to how I operate and study scripture. I actually work the other way around. I let the HS prompt me first to dig into the scriptures to discover a new way of understanding what the intended message is within the passage that I am considering.

As such, I have found a few keys to unravelling the "traditional" understandings of the End Times.

All that I am doing is posting what I have discovered as to our miss understandings of what the scripture are all about. You can take it or leave it. That is of no concern to me. However, to take the "righteous" stand and to say that I am skewered because it does not fit your understanding, tells me lots about your character.

Have a good day now.

 

[Stranger]

I am sorry, but you have made a very wrong assumption as to how I operate and study scripture. I actually work the other way around. I let the HS prompt me first to dig into the scriptures to discover a new way of understanding what the intended message is within the passage that I am considering.

As such, I have found a few keys to unravelling the "traditional" understandings of the End Times.

All that I am doing is posting what I have discovered as to our miss understandings of what the scripture are all about. You can take it or leave it. That is of no concern to me. However, to take the "righteous" stand and to say that I am skewered because it does not fit your understanding, tells me lots about your character.

Have a good day now.

No, I have made a correct observation as proved by your statements concerning (Ezek. 34:11-16) and (Gen. 15:16). Your so called 'new way' simply changes what Scripture is saying.

I do leave it in that I reject it. That doesn't mean that I won't respond to your misinformed posts.

Stranger

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Messianic Judaism is a movement believes that Jesus is the Messiah with elements of Judaism and Jewish tradition. Messianic Judaism believe that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and the New Testament is influential scriptures. Salvation in Messianic Judaism is acceptance of Jesus as Savior, and the Jewish laws or customs which they follow do not contribute to salvation. Belief in Jesus as the Messiah, His power to save, and His divinity are the distinctions between Christianity and Judaism.

Many people of Messianic Judaism consider themselves Jewish and see their movement as a sect of Judaism. Many refer to themselves as Jew “Believers” and not Christian. Israel does not recognize Messianic Judaism and regards them as Christians. Messianic Judaism does not want to be associated with Christianity, because most Christians do not understand or follow G-D's divine Word. Messianic Jews have a high respect for G-D compared to most Non-Jews.

With information readily available in the 21st century more Jews are discovering the Messiah Jesus. The movement began in the 1960s and 1970s and from 2003 to 2007, the movement grew from 150 Messianic houses of worship in the United States to as many as 438, with over 100 in Israel and more worldwide. As of 2012 there were between 175,000 and 250,000 members in the United States, between 10,000 and 20,000 members for Israel, and an estimated total worldwide membership of 350,000. Their congregations are often affiliated with larger Messianic organizations or alliances.

Jews are diligently taught the OT knowledge therefore are the most knowledgeable people on understanding G-D. If a Non-Jewish Christian wanted to learn more they should seek a Messianic Jewish teacher.

Yes I know all that.
True Jews of OT are believers of God.
Sadly most that claim they are Jews are not Jews at all in fact.

 

[n2thelight]

Israel is a miracle nation=God"s Eternal Chosen People.
God promised that in the last days of this age, He will bring His people back into their own land. (May 15,1948)And though those days will be difficult, in the end He will personally defend them and they will never be dispersed again.

So those who fight against this miracle nation are fighting a losing battle. The Book of Revelation speaks of a massive revival among Jews after the Rapture. And Romans 11:26 promises that, "All Israel will be saved."
Hal Lindsey

Israel is a miracle nation=God"s Eternal Chosen People.
God promised that in the last days of this age, He will bring His people back into their own land. (May 15,1948)And though those days will be difficult, in the end He will personally defend them and they will never be dispersed again.

So those who fight against this miracle nation are fighting a losing battle. The Book of Revelation speaks of a massive revival among Jews after the Rapture. And Romans 11:26 promises that, "All Israel will be saved."
Hal Lindsey

Only Judah(Jews) returned,also two baskets came.

 

[Triumph1300]

G-D

Who is G-D ???

 

[Episkopos]

Who is G-D ???

God as in G-d is g--d! Just fill in the "o"'s...