Israel is a miracle nation=God"s Eternal Chosen People.

[GISMYS_7]

Israel is a miracle nation=God"s Eternal Chosen People.
God promised that in the last days of this age, He will bring His people back into their own land. (May 15,1948)And though those days will be difficult, in the end He will personally defend them and they will never be dispersed again.

So those who fight against this miracle nation are fighting a losing battle. The Book of Revelation speaks of a massive revival among Jews after the Rapture. And Romans 11:26 promises that, "All Israel will be saved."
Hal Lindsey

 

[Stranger]

Yes, Israel is a miracle nation.

And the 'All' of Israel that will be saved, are children of promise, as Isaac was. (Rom. 9:6-9) In other words, just because they are born of Abraham doesn't make them a child of promise. They must be of God, of His Spirit. (Gal. 4:28-29)

Stranger

 

[Triumph1300]

Romans 11-26 And so all Israel shall be saved.

When the Church Age ends and the 2nd coming happens, then Israel will accept Christ and will be saved.

Isa. 27-9, 59:20-21

 

[Jay Ross]

Romans 11-26 And so all Israel shall be saved.

When the Church Age ends and the 2nd coming happens, then Israel will accept Christ and will be saved.

Isa. 27-9, 59:20-21

We need to unpack these verses a little differently.

Romans 11:25-26: - 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,
NKJV

This is the "traditional understanding" that has been accepted as the meaning of the original Greek text; however, I would suggest that a better understanding is made with reference to Daniel 8:13-14 and the trampling of the Sanctuary by the heathen Gentiles.

A better translation would be: - “until the prophesied full time period of the ‘heathen’ Gentiles is complete, after which all of Israel will be saved;”

When the full time period of the 2,300 years of the heathen gentiles trampling the sanctuary of God has run its full course from around 250 BC until its completion in our near future, probably within the next 20-30 years time period, after which all of Israel will be saved/redeemed by God.

Israel is a miracle nation=God"s Eternal Chosen People.
God promised that in the last days of this age, He will bring His people back into their own land. (May 15,1948)And though those days will be difficult, in the end He will personally defend them and they will never be dispersed again.

So those who fight against this miracle nation are fighting a losing battle. The Book of Revelation speaks of a massive revival among Jews after the Rapture. And Romans 11:26 promises that, "All Israel will be saved."
Hal Lindsey

This also has to be unpacked as well. Hal Lindsey's understanding of the "End Times" has to be corrected as well.

God did not bring Abraham's descendants back to the land in 1948 as many believe. Some of Abraham's descendants returned to the land, as God Prophesised in Genesis 15:16 in their own strength, close enough to 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac.

In Ezekiel 34 God tells us the following: -

Ezekiel 34:11-16: - God, the True Shepherd

11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land/soil (H:0127:- Soil, from H:0119: - to show blood, red); I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country/earth.(H:0776: - Earth, land, country) 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."
​

At present, God does not want His Nation of Priests and a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nation, settled in the Land of Canaan, he requires them to be still scattered among the nations so that they will become a blessing to all of the peoples of the earth.

What we have imagined God intendeds to do, does not actually match up to what God has already told us will happen.

With that is mind, like the Apollo spacecraft commander, I can say, "Huston/God, we have a problem." How do we get back to being in sink with God's will.

Shalom

 

[GISMYS_7]

Why not just believe what God says in His Word and not try to guess what you think He wants??

 

[aspen]

Israel is a miracle nation=God"s Eternal Chosen People.
God promised that in the last days of this age, He will bring His people back into their own land. (May 15,1948)And though those days will be difficult, in the end He will personally defend them and they will never be dispersed again.

So those who fight against this miracle nation are fighting a losing battle. The Book of Revelation speaks of a massive revival among Jews after the Rapture. And Romans 11:26 promises that, "All Israel will be saved."
Hal Lindsey

The physical land of Israel is a transitional object; a teddybear. The real Israel is the Body of Christ

 

[Episkopos]

Israel is both a nation AND a congregation of the nations.

Ge. 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee (Israel), and kings shall come out of thy loins;

In Hebrew it is Goy (nation) ou-kehal (and a church or congregation) goyim (of the nations).

 

[GISMYS_7]

The prophets Isaiah also confirms the restored relationship of love between Israel and God:

"Do not fear, for you will not be ashamed; nor be disgraced, for you will not be put to shame; for you will forget the shame of your youth, and will not remember the reproach of your widowhood anymore. For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is His name; and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth. For the Lord has called you like a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, like a youthful wife when you were refused, says your God. For a mere moment I have forsaken you, but with great mercies I will gather you. With a little wrath I hid My face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you, says the Lord your Redeemer" (Is. 54:4-8).

 

[Triumph1300]

God did not bring Abraham's descendants back to the land in 1948 as many believe.

I believe you are wrong.
This was all done by the Lord.
This would have never happened without the Lord.

It's a miracle by itself. Including defeating the many Arab attacks.

A small country like Israel could never have survived being surrounded by millions of Arabs trying to destroy them.

 

[Enoch111]

The physical land of Israel is a transitional object; a teddybear. The real Israel is the Body of Christ

Replacement Theology has been the norm in the Catholic Church, as well as the Protestant churches which came out of it. But the Bible does NOT replace redeemed and restored Israel with the Church.

The Church is the Body, the Bride, and the Building of Christ, and consists of both redeemed Jews and Gentiles until the end of the Church Age. But according to the Bible, there is a limit to the number of Gentiles which will enter into the Church -- called "the fulness of the Gentiles" -- and once that number is completed, the Church will be raptured, and God will resume His dealings with the Jews after the second coming of Christ.

We should always bear in mind that there are certain aspects of the Abrahamic Covenant which will only be fulfilled when Christ returns to earth "with power and great glory". At that time the physical land of Israel will be established from the Nile to the Euphrates, which means probably 10 times the land mass which is presently the nation-state of Israel.

But all unbelieving Jews will be excluded, and only a believing remnant will be established in the land. Study Ezekiel and all the other prophets in the OT.

 

[Truth]

The physical land of Israel is a transitional object; a teddybear. The real Israel is the Body of Christ

Yes! As I see it we are Grafted into the Root, and Fatness, Our Savior, for he is the Vine and we are the Branches, Also the Eternal Bread of Life.
As Paul states! we were once without God, and know we are of God, and Joint heirs to the Common Wealth of Israel, God has always been the Common - Wealth of Israel!

 

[aspen]

Yes! As I see it we are Grafted into the Root, and Fatness, Our Savior, for he is the Vine and we are the Branches, Also the Eternal Bread of Life.
As Paul states! we were once without God, and know we are of God, and Joint heirs to the Common Wealth of Israel, God has always been the Common - Wealth of Israel!

Insightful

 

[Jay Ross]

Why not just believe what God says in His Word and not try to guess what you think He wants??

I assume that you are making a reference to someone and since there only 3 other people who have posted, then I assume you are making a point about what I have posted.

But I am believing what is actually in God's Word and prophecies. If I have a wrong understanding of what is in God's word that I referenced, then demonstrate why you believe that is so with evidence to back up your posted opinion.

I await your post which explains fully where my error is.

 

[Episkopos]

="Enoch111, post: 430866, member: 7853"]Replacement Theology has been the norm in the Catholic Church, as well as the Protestant churches which came out of it. But the Bible does NOT replace redeemed and restored Israel with the Church.

The saints are Israel...both Jew and Gentile. These make up the Bride of Christ. What has been rejected is the nation of Israel who were called...but no longer chosen. They who are chosen have entered into Christ, first the Jew but also the Gentile. There is no difference in a new creation...old things have passed away. They who are rejected have turned away from Him.

The Church is the Body, the Bride, and the Building of Christ, and consists of both redeemed Jews and Gentiles until the end of the Church Age. But according to the Bible, there is a limit to the number of Gentiles which will enter into the Church -- called "the fulness of the Gentiles" -- and once that number is completed, the Church will be raptured, and God will resume His dealings with the Jews after the second coming of Christ.

This is a "messianic" fiction that honours the flesh and a natural birth as being more important than a spiritual birth. The fulness of the Gentiles or "melo hagoyim" מלא-הגים is from Gen. 48:19

Gen. 48:19 But his father refused and said, “I know, my son, I know. He also shall become a people (Manasseh..or the Jewish believers), and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he (Ephraim, or the Gentile believers), and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations.” (actually a fulness of the nations or Gentiles)

Then...ALL Israel will be saved (meaning that is the condition of Israel once the full number of Gentiles has come in) But that Gentile fulness is ALL Israel. It is not the addition of non-believing Jews afterwards. God swore that they should not enter His rest.

We should always bear in mind that there are certain aspects of the Abrahamic Covenant which will only be fulfilled when Christ returns to earth "with power and great glory". At that time the physical land of Israel will be established from the Nile to the Euphrates, which means probably 10 times the land mass which is presently the nation-state of Israel.

But all unbelieving Jews will be excluded, and only a believing remnant will be established in the land. Study Ezekiel and all the other prophets in the OT.

This has already happened. The unbelievers of all nations are excluded. The believers of all nations are INcluded. You are simply following along with the "glory in the flesh" movement if you think one type of unbeliever is better than another. But in Christ there is no difference. You are missing this understanding it would seem. What Jesus has done "blows away" any carnal consideration. To miss that is to miss the gospel.

 

[Enoch111]

What Jesus has done "blows away" any carnal consideration.

God's plans are NOT "carnal considerations". Did you study the Old Testament before responding? And then did you study Romans 11?Unfortunately, too many Christians are never exposed to the unfulfilled prophecies given to us, hence such responses as yours.

 

[Episkopos]

God's plans are NOT "carnal considerations". Did you study the Old Testament before responding? And then did you study Romans 11?Unfortunately, too many Christians are never exposed to the unfulfilled prophecies given to us, hence such responses as yours.

I am very well versed in both testaments. And I read Hebrew. Did you look at Gen. 48? Did you look at the prophecy that preceded the prophecy?

 

[Episkopos]

Why not just believe what God says in His Word and not try to guess what you think He wants??

You mean...what you think it says... But there is a true understanding.

 

[Jay Ross]

It seems that there is no understanding, only opinions which is the basis of their understanding.

But, I might be getting head of myself and shooting myself in the foot, I will have to wait until the opinions have caught up with the facts.

 

[Stranger]

We need to unpack these verses a little differently.

Romans 11:25-26: - 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,
NKJV

This is the "traditional understanding" that has been accepted as the meaning of the original Greek text; however, I would suggest that a better understanding is made with reference to Daniel 8:13-14 and the trampling of the Sanctuary by the heathen Gentiles.

A better translation would be: - “until the prophesied full time period of the ‘heathen’ Gentiles is complete, after which all of Israel will be saved;”

When the full time period of the 2,300 years of the heathen gentiles trampling the sanctuary of God has run its full course from around 250 BC until its completion in our near future, probably within the next 20-30 years time period, after which all of Israel will be saved/redeemed by God.



This also has to be unpacked as well. Hal Lindsey's understanding of the "End Times" has to corrected as well.

God did not bring Abraham's descendants back to the land in 1948 as many believe. Some of Abraham's descendants returned to the land, as God Prophesised in Genesis 15:16 in their own strength, close enough to 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac.

In Ezekiel 34 God tells us the following: -

Ezekiel 34:11-16: - God, the True Shepherd

11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land/soil (H:0127:- Soil, from H:0119: - to show blood, red); I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country/earth.(H:0776: - Earth, land, country) 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."
​

At present, God does not want His Nation of Priests and a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nation, settled in the Land of Canaan, he requires them to be still scattered among the nations so that they will become a blessing to all of the peoples of the earth.

What we have imagined God intendeds to do, does not actually match up to what God has already told us will happen.

With that is mind, like the Apollo spacecraft commander, I can say, "Huston/God, we have a problem." How do we get back to being in sink with God's will.

Shalom

Don't apply your problem to God. You have proved nothing. You give a verse and say somethings. Gee, that must settle it. 'not'.

You have made no connection in Scripture to prove that the nation of Israel is the Church in the New Testament. And you can't because it isn't.

Israel is Israel. The Church is the Church. And never shall the twain meet, meaning they will always have their distinction. The fullness of the Gentiles is just that, the fullness of the Gentiles. That doesn't make them Israel.

Stranger

 

[Jay Ross]

Don't apply your problem to God. You have proved nothing. You give a verse and say somethings. Gee, that must settle it. 'not'.

You have made no connection in Scripture to prove that the nation of Israel is the Church in the New Testament. And you can't because it isn't.

Israel is Israel. The Church is the Church. And never shall the twain meet, meaning they will always have their distinction. The fullness of the Gentiles is just that, the fullness of the Gentiles. That doesn't make them Israel.

Stranger

Oh Stranger, you have obviously not understood what I had posted. I made no claims/statement that Israel was the church in the New Testament or that the Gentiles would become Israel. That is your opinion of what I was posting about. Shame on you for attempting to put words into my mouth, so to speak.

You, also, have expressed your opinion without any scriptural confirmation and as such you have qualified what you have posted to the WPB.