And ... what's the other part?
Jesus? "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."
Which is just the opposite of your doctrine?
What does it mean when a doctrine is the opposite of the words of Jesus?
.
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Jesus? "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."
Which is just the opposite of your doctrine?
What does it mean when a doctrine is the opposite of the words of Jesus?
.
Dodo_David said:
We have to keep in mind that no English version of the Bible is the standard for comparison, not even the KJV.williemac said:
Different English versions exist because it isn't easy to precisely translate messages written in ancient Hebrew and Koiné Greek into modern-day English.
For example, sometimes the meaning of an ancient idiom is lost when the idiom is given a strict literal translation. Sometimes there is no exact English equivalent to a word in ancient Hebrew or Koiné Greek.
If we are unable to read and to understand ancient Hebrew and Koiné Greek, then we do well to use more than one English version in order to gain understanding.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
Blatantly bad translation ... because a few verses down, Jesus says everyone will be judged ... leaving no doubt about the error in translation.
"that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation"
This should also help clear up your confusion on, "faith without works".
You see Jesus using the word, "done."
A lot of people seem to get mystified by the word "works".
"works" just means what we did, do, done ... our deeds.
So, faith without works means the same thing Jesus is saying; what we do (done) will determine our final destination.
I don't understand how this can be so confusing.
In 25, Jesus says; "He that heareth my word".
To clarify, Jesus says; "Take heed what ye hear".
Surely you don't think we can "heareth" and then ignore God?
.
Who is confused? Not me. I am simply filtering everything through the gospel. Our works do not determine our final destination. What they determine is our final rewards. You see, if there are no works whatsoever, then this would indicate no faith, and that would indeed determine our final state. But as I have mentioned in the past, this is not something that can be thought of in absolute terms. What Christian has no works at all? And what Christian is totally sinless all the time? And what Christian is totally sinful?IBeMe said:
James offered a principle that faith produces works. This cannot be denied. But salvation was not on the table in his letter. He was exhorting them, to a better show of love than what he had been hearing about. Love is the context. Just read the letter in its entirety. This is not confusing either.
As for the few verses down in John 5, Jesus was not specific. He did not use the word "sin". What about someone who is doing some good and some evil? And what about someone who is doing much good and just a little evil? He just got through saying that those of faith would not be condemned, but have passed from death to life.
. Here is what you may be confused about. Through faith, one is exempt form condemnation and his works will be given rewards. He (his old man of sin) is identified with Christ on the cross and his flesh and blood will not inherit life. Thus the law of the wages of sin is fulfilled through faith. However, the unbeliever has no such luck. He will be judged solely on his works and has no exemption, and does not have life. The truth is that all have sinned and fall short of God's glory. The unbeliever is doomed to be judged as an evildoer. But the believer will not be called one who does evil. This is the gospel.
As I have also shared, Jesus reserves the right to rebuke and chasten ALL whom He loves, which He says He does (Rev.3:19). This includes you and I. I have personally fallen in the past and have been chastened. And boy did I repent. Thanks to the Lord, He proved His love to me. And this is what I shared from Rev.2:20-22. Believe me, tribulation is not fun. But when I repented, it lifted right away. This is His way of dealing with His own. You might want to consider just what kind of God you believe in. The bible says He is full of grace and mercy. Jesus was a friend of tax collectors and sinners. He had/has compassion and will travel to the ends of the earth to rescue a stray believer.
I am reminded of a typical ransom note that you can see on some t.v. shows. They are pieced together from excerpts of various newspaper articles. This is what your doctrine is like. You take pieces from all over the place and past them together as though they form one coherent message. This is what happens when one has a conclusion that he is trying to prove. One starts to see it in places where it is not, and ignore the contradictions that are shouting from the rooftops of other passages. This is no way to interpret the truth contained in scripture. You may as well tear out John 6:50,51, among other places.
We, through faith in His Son, are being treated as His children, as joint heirs, and as future rulers. We are in training. How is it that you can reduce this to a "be good and get to heaven" exercise? Is it because this is what someone has seduced you into? What part of "not of yourselves" is escaping your comprehension? Just asking. respectfully, in His love.
IBeMe said:
Actually, what Jesus said was this:
Jesus didn't speak in 17th-Century English, and the New Testament writers recorded Jesus' words in Koiné Greek.
Thus, it is non sequitur to complain because someone else is using an English version of the Bible not written in England during the 17th Century CE.
You seem to be confounded by the word, "works".
Don't feel bad, lot of folks stumble there.
"works" just means, what we do, deeds.
But, there's absolutely no doubt about it; Jesus explicitly says the Kingdom of Heaven is restricted to only those that do the works of God.
Don't get confused with "works" and "doeth".
Remember; "works" means, what we do. (doeth, in the Bible)
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
So yeah, got to actually "doeth" what God tells us to do; after all, He is God.
If you're still confused with "works" and "doeth", perhaps this will clarify.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
See how all the scriptures come together once you get over the confusion with the word, "works"?
Jesus is saying the same thing in Mathew and Revelations.
Hope this helps to clarify.
No works, no cigar!
Once you get over your confusion with the word, "works"; then you can understand James.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
See, James says, without the works our faith is vain.
And, no surprise, it agrees with Jesus ... they're saying the same thing.
"For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer ... forgetteth what manner of man he was."
See, James shows how silly it is to think we can get by without actually doing what God says to do.
What's the problem, man?
Don't follow your lusts.
Here's the formula.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
1. Don't walk after the flesh.
2. Do walk after the Spirit.
See what happens when we follow those simple instruction? ... "no condemnation".
"And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men."
We have to overcome sin.
"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."
Jesus didn't die so that we could play around with our lusts and entertain demons.
.
Another classic example of not reading a complete text. You have made the common error of interpreting walking in the spirit as not sinning. Let's suppose that you are correct. This would be another way it could read: there is no condemnation for those who don't sin. But then, this is exactly what you are saying isn't it? No forgiveness necessary if you have nothing that needs forgiveness. Unfortunately, that is not what Paul was saying.IBeMe said:
Rom.8:1 has the word "therefore" in it. This was a conclusion from what was previously said. And if you dare to look, Paul was describing his mindset, in that he was in agreement with the law, that it is good. However, he also admitted that his body of flesh was interfering with his ability to keep the law. But because his mind (heart) and especially his will, was in the right place, he declared this: Rom.7:16,17.." If then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good, But now, it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells in me.. And in vs 18..." For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells, but how to perform what is good I do not find . vs.19.For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice...vs.20.." Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells in me" vs.22 "For I delight in the law of God ACCORDING TO THE INWARD MAN"...
The principle laid out in that chapter lays out the mindset that is important for a Christian to have. I doubt that Paul was saying he was sinning all the time, or that he was lusting all the time. He was merely separating his identity from the sin nature that is contained in our flesh, because of his agreement with what is good and his will to do good.
So if we fast forward to Rom.8:1, he mentions walking according to the spirit. And in vs. 5, he relates this again to the mindset..." For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the spirit, the things of the spirit". Walking in the spirit has to do with the mindset and the will.
In fact, Paul goes on to say that we are in the spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in us. And then he says if we have not the spirit of Christ, we are not His. Then in vs.10, he explains that if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin but the spirit is life because of righteousness. This is just another place that Paul talks about the old man being declared dead, and the new man being righteous (see also, Eph.4:24).
But a little know truth is that Paul is referring to two spirits, here. The spirit of Christ in us is our new spirit called the new man. That which is born OF the (Christ's) Spirit IS spirit; His offspring. The Spirit 'of God' is the Holy Spirit. We know this, because although Paul mentions that the body is dead because of sin, in the next verse he relates that the purpose of the Holy Spirit is to give life (quicken) to our mortal bodies. The new bith is not the same as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They are two separate experiences.
There is so much more to this than what is meeting your eye. Do you realize that forgiveness was ours before we even heard the gospel? 2Cor.5:19.." that is, God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses against them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation..vs.20 "Now then, we are ambassadors of Christ, as though God were pleading through us; we implore you on Christ's behalf; be reconciled to God".
Before anyone came to Christ, his sins were forgiven. But in order for the benefits of this forgiveness to be appropriated in one's life, he simply needs to accept it by faith. Faith comes by hearing. But this is where your doctrine fails. You agree that one can be forgiven for sin, but if he sins again, the forgiveness is removed. So therefore, don't sin and you won't be condemned, as you have interpreted Rom.8:1.
So here is what your position looks like; God does not impute the sin of a sinner to him before he is reconciled, but will do it after he is reconciled. You are presenting to us a covenant that removes both faith and grace from our relationship with God, and replaces it it with works. After all, no grace required for those who are not sinning. No forgiveness needed. No faith needed for justification. Its all based on walking free from sin. You know something..even if it were possible to be totally sinless for the rest of one's life, the covenant is not dependent on this as a requirement for us to be partakers of it. You know why? Because we would have a cause for boasting. It would put us in a position for boasting.
Jesus was a friend of sinners while on this earth. His enemies were the religious leaders of the day; the ones who considered themselves to be righteous by their works. Refer to Luke 18:10-14, for an example of this.
Another thing. John referred to three aspects of offense in the world...the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. (1John2:16). It happens that these were the three areas of temptation that Jesus endured. The lust of the flesh was the offer of food. The lust of the eye was the offer of the kingdoms of the world. The pride of life, however, was the challenge to validate or prove who He was..."If you are the Son of God"....
You in your limited understanding, talk a lot about sin as being the lust of the flesh. This is what was forgiven at Calvary. The lust of the eyes as well, as it is what often incites wars and thievery, etc. However, the third one is in the area of pride. It is the original sin of Lucifer, who wanted to rise up to the status of God. It is the one thing that keeps people from receiving the free gift of life, and one thing that causes some to stumble once they have the status of belonging to the King. God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. This is why He removed any possibility of boasting from the covenant.
Do you want to keep grace as your key to life, or remove it? Keep it as your covenant with God or remove it? That is up to you. BUT.... Do we keep our status by works? (if you are a son of God...") What would be the will of the Father here?
I feel impressed of God to add one more thing: Jesus told the woman who was caught in adultery...pay close attention...." Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more".. It would be contrary to God's righteous and holy nature to not say "go and sin no more" It would be contrary to good advice and logic as well. You are right to point these things out.
But look at the order: "Neither do I condemn you" came first. It does not come after, as you have suggested in your reply. You have reversed the order.
The basis of our going and sinning no more is because we are free from condemnation. This freedom is not the result of our sinning no more. Stand fast in the liberty by which Christ has set us free and do not be entangled again in the yoke of bondage (justification by works of law). (Gal.5:1-4) I venture a guess that you seldom sift through the pages of the letter to the Galatians.
We have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit Who is from God..." that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God" (1Cor.2:12).
So then, are we going to set our minds on the things of the Spirit or not?....for..." He who did not spare His Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely gives us all things?" (Rom.8:32)
"He that committeth sin is of the devil ..."
I don't know how you can get so confused about that?
The Bible says that if you're sinning, you're serving Satan.
Walking in the Spirit and serving Satan are not the same.
I'm perplexed how anyone could be that dishevelled.
Paul struggling with sin? ... You're really confused!
"And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men."
See that? ... "always a conscience void of offence".
You're getting confused with scriptures where Paul was explaining the state of man; after the law but before Salvation.
100% correct.
And, Jesus says we must keep the commandments to have the Spirit of Christ
"If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."
Why not do what Jesus says?
Jesus says that if you don't keep His commandments, you don't love Him.
How come you want to sin?
No wonder you're so confused.
You don't know what it means to be born again!
So you say you have an extra spirit?
There's two you living in there?
You're confused on the most basic Salvation scripture.
No, we're saved by faith.
If we don't believe on Jesus then our sins aren't forgiven.
That's a profusion off confusion.
No, God didn't forgive everyone in the world their sins; They must believe inn Jesus.
You're starting to become incoherent.
I wish you a good night and a speedy recovery.
You can twist my words all you like. But the scripture is clear. We are body, soul, and spirit. Three parts. The part which is born of the Spirit (capital S) is our spirit. This is our new man. This is what is called "Christ in you" . The Holy Spirit comes to dwell within us and is the fulfillment of the promise Jesus made that He and the Father would come and make their home with us. In that context, He was speaking of the sending of the Holy Spirit after He is gone. But that is not the new birth. Birth is about reproduction. Birth is about producing offspring. Our new man, our new spirit, is offspring of Jesus. That which is born of His Spirit...IS spirit. That which is born of the flesh IS flesh. This is not rocket surgery ^_^.IBeMe said:
This is what the bible says. You can mock it all you want, but it is not I whom you are mocking. I am merely laying out scripture, and you are making fun of it. This is your problem, not mine. Jesus talked of the new wineskin and the new wine. These were symbolic of the Holy Spirit being the new wine and the born again spirit being the wineskin. Yes there are two. But they are not both, me. One of them is God, my friend. If you knew that, which I suspect you did,,, You are just making yourself look a lot worse than you are trying to make me look.
If you actually spent a little time reading and considering what I am saying, maybe you would not blunder so much in mocking my words. I am presenting scripture to you. It is the bible you are mocking. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them. That is an exact quote. And you think it is funny to reply that I am incoherent or confused? Maybe you should have checked the bible reference you are mocking. God is not mocked. In fact, you replied that one must believe in Jesus, which is exactly what I said, ( re:faith) (as if you are telling me something I don't know)
I have a sense of humor, but I usually laugh with people, not at them. The latter is cruel. You demonstrate your character by you mockery. This is beginning to look a lot like the thread that was locked. You have no interest in being taught scripture. You simply think that if you attack a person's character, you win. I am beginning to regret sharing these pearls. But for the sake of those who might be reading these, I will not let you get away with your legalism. The only participation we have in salvation is to accept it by faith. It is a free gift. I quoted ' things freely given' by God and you have chosen to skip over them...I wonder why....
Sigh! It sure would be nice if everyone here would use tact and diplomacy when discussing what how each person interprets Bible verses.
I strive to do that, even though I mess up at times.
I strive to do that, even though I mess up at times.
I hear ya. Good advice. It's not that bad here, though. I've seen worse. I don't take myself too seriously most of the time. And I am not responsible for another person's state of mind. Just my own. :blink: ^_^Dodo_David said:
So here is a quote from our friend: "that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation"
And then from the same person, another quote: No, we're saved by faith.
If we don't believe on Jesus then our sins aren't forgiven.
With all due respect, I will not use the word "confusion", but certainly contradiction. It is what I have been disputing all along. If a person is a believer and has sin in his life, according to our friend here, he is declared to be of the devil and is condemned. So believing on Jesus is not enough in his understanding. One must believe for forgiveness and then he has to obey the moral law to keep it. Furthermore, he actually believes this is possible and is accomplishing it himself. Whatever!
But Rom.10:4 declares that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe. If buddy is correct in his analysis, Christ would be actually the 'beginning' , or the continuing of the law for righteousness. He is saying, along with E-7, that we get born again by faith so that we can receive the ability to be justified by works of law. Really?
However, whenever we see works being mentioned in the believer, they fall into the category of love for one another. Works that come from faith are not what we don't do, they are what we are doing. This was the contention of James for his readers. He wasn't feeling the love.
The fruit of the spirit has things that come into us from God, starting with..Love, joy, and peace. Then these three and the rest flow out from us towards others: patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. So, while one is claiming that we can successfully be free from sin to the satisfaction of the law, I am watching for the fruit as well. Those who abide (remain) in Jesus will bear fruit. That is His promise. And those who bear just a little fruit are acceptable to Him. (some 100, some 60, some 30).
And again, I will repeat John's word in 1John 2:1... He says he writes these things that they may not sin...Good advice, always. "but if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous".
Just once I would like a reply to this verse from either of our two friends who like to quote condemning things about the sinning believer. Just once...some acknowledgment of this and other scriptural objections to their message. Such as the entire book of Galatians.......sigh... :mellow:
This is not incoherence ... this is good news of a different kind ... this is another gospel, a false gospel.IBeMe said:
test
They become regenerated spirits; born again of the Spirit, new creatures in Christ Jesus, sons of God.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Our condemnation of death was executed, Jesus taking our place.
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
The new regenerated creature is free from the Adamic curse because they are born again of the Spirit sons of God having access to God through the Holy Spirit.
However, were still in a body of flesh just as Jesus was.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
If we walk after the flesh, we'll fall into sin; we're ignoring the POWER given to us by the grace of God.
If we walk after the Spirit, then it's impossible to sin, "no condemnation"; the Spirit will never lead us to sin.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
You're trying to turn grace into lasciviousness, perhaps deceiving some into thinking it's OK to sin.
The Holy Spirit won't stay with a person who falls back into sin.
“When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.“
“Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.“
“Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.“
God can't dwell in sin; "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.“
Jesus came and died so that we could be free from sin and worship God in spirit and truth.
You say it's OK to sin.
God says don't sin.
Salvation doesn't endow Christians with an extra spirit.
They become regenerated spirits; born again of the Spirit, new creatures in Christ Jesus, sons of God.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Our condemnation of death was executed, Jesus taking our place.
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
The new regenerated creature is free from the Adamic curse because they are born again of the Spirit sons of God having access to God through the Holy Spirit.
However, were still in a body of flesh just as Jesus was.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
If we walk after the flesh, we'll fall into sin; we're ignoring the POWER given to us by the grace of God.
If we walk after the Spirit, then it's impossible to sin, "no condemnation"; the Spirit will never lead us to sin.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
I'm not trying to make you look bad, just exposing false doctrine.
You're trying to turn grace into lasciviousness, perhaps deceiving some into thinking it's OK to sin.
The Holy Spirit won't stay with a person who falls back into sin.
“When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.“
“Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.“
“Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.“
God can't dwell in sin; "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.“
Jesus came and died so that we could be free from sin and worship God in spirit and truth.
Very confused!
You say it's OK to sin.
God says don't sin.
You're teaching false doctrine.
evangelist-7
You say in your opening post at the conclusion that the Christian must stop trusting the imputed righteousness of Christ that we recieved when we started our new life when we were born-again.
Have you improved on Christ's righteousness? I doubt it. Which means, you still need it.
In fact, and this must be a great disappointment to you, you will need it forever throughout all eternity.
No matter how good your spiritual walk gets. No matter what glorious raptures you will experience here or there, the ony reason you will ever be able to be there, is because of Christ's righteousness imputed to you.
My suggestion is that you better learn here how to trust that, as you will be trusting that throughout eternity.
Quantrill
You say in your opening post at the conclusion that the Christian must stop trusting the imputed righteousness of Christ that we recieved when we started our new life when we were born-again.
Have you improved on Christ's righteousness? I doubt it. Which means, you still need it.
In fact, and this must be a great disappointment to you, you will need it forever throughout all eternity.
No matter how good your spiritual walk gets. No matter what glorious raptures you will experience here or there, the ony reason you will ever be able to be there, is because of Christ's righteousness imputed to you.
My suggestion is that you better learn here how to trust that, as you will be trusting that throughout eternity.
Quantrill
It's not an opinion, it's the Word of God.
“He that committeth sin is of the devil"
So, the logical thing to do is make changes in our life to bring ourselves into compliance with God's regulations.
What did Jesus tell Peter?
“Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.“
When a person sins they glorify Satan.
Jesus didn't die for us to play with our lusts and entertain demons.
You keep confusing the Mosaic Law with God's commandments.
The Mosaic Law was given to the children of Israel to teach them to keep the commandments of God.
Jesus came and died to give us the POWER to keep the commandments of God, and thus fulfill the righteousness of the law.
"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
Why do you want to sin?
You're really confused.
It's real simple.
We're saved by faith, then we do what God says to do.
How come you don't want to do what God says to do?
Why are you teaching folks to ignore God?
This is false doctrine.
This is the works that we're commanded to do.
“Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.“
And no, you can't take the words of the Holy Spirit, given to James, away from us.
Jesus and James agree, proving the fallacy of this doctrine which tries to turn grace into lasciviousness.
Jesus says that you're not a friend of God if you don't do everything He commands.
James says it's stupid to say you believe and ignore doing what God commands to do.
Why are you not telling the truth?
Nobody said anything about "the satisfaction of the law."
This is what we are to do.
“Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.“
Yes, some will bear more fruit than others.
But, what fruit does sin bear?
"The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin."
" For the wages of sin is death"
We have to stop sinning to bear fruit.
" But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life."
If we sin through ignorance, as we learn and grow in the Word; we have an advocate.
John makes it clear that if we sin willfully; " He that committeth sin is of the devil..."
Jesus didn't die so that we can play around with our lusts and give the glory to Satan.
We must stop sinning to glorify God and justify the high price that was paid for God's gift of Salvation; the death of Jesus Christ.
Paul says that if we sin willfully, we figuratively have trampled under foot the Son of God.
You're confusing the Mosaic Law with the commandments of God.
The Mosaic Law was given to teach folks to keep the commandments of God.
This is what a part of the Mosaic Law looks like.
"But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering."
This is what some of the commandments of God look like.
"... but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
"He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,"
"Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
Perhaps this will help clear up you're confusion.
.
I will reply to the other part when I have time later. As for this "confusion" you are suggesting, it only proves that you have in fact not looked at the book of Galatians.IBeMe said:
But before I go there, I will comment on the commandments that you quoted from Jesus. Firstly, they were part of those which came down from Mount Sinai, the ten commandments on two tablets of stone. And guess who God gave them to? Moses. Where in the world do you suppose the word 'Mosaic' came from?
However, Jesus ministered to the people while they were still under the old covenant. The covenant of grace through faith had not yet been instituted. It came into effect after Jesus died. This is documented in Hebrews.
But in Galatians, we can read that the law was given to tutor people. What does it teach? "For by the law is the knowledge of sin". The law reveals our nature as sinners so that we can see our need for a Savior. But after we come to the Savior, we are no longer under a tutor.
When we are talking of the covenant of law, we are not merely dealing with just one aspect of law. In Gal.4:22-26, Paul talks of the two sons that Abraham had; one from the bondwoman and one from the free woman. And here is vs.24..." which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar (the bondwoman)- vs.25.for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children- vs.26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all."
Which law came from Mount Sinai, my friend? Later on, in ch.5:14..Paul states that all the law is fulfilled in one word, to love your neighbor as yourself. You going to limit that to the fulfillment of what you call the mosaic law? But even then, Paul states in vs. 4 that they have become estranged from Christ who attempt to be justified by law. Notice he did not say "the" law. He merely said by law.
Conclusion? In that letter, Paul is including all of the law contained in the first covenant.
Is he saying that they should not keep the commandments? No, he is saying that the keeping of them is not the source of our justification.
I am not disputing being moral. I am merely conveying the principle that our covenant is based on. Justification by way of grace through faith. There is much more proof in Galatians that we are no longer under any law for justification.
You are mixing the two covenants together. This was the offense of the Galatians. The keeping of commandments of law of any kind do not justify us for life. If they did, we would have cause for boasting. That possibility has been eliminated.
Now we can see why you keep getting confused with the Mosaic Law.
God's commandments are everlasting.
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
See? ... Way before Moses.
It's amazing this should confuse you, Jesus makes it clear.
"... but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. ... Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
How could it be more clear?
Nope, you're confused on that.
Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
God's righteousness didn't change, it's impossible for God to change; the atonement changed.
It's total confusion to try and take scriptures about the Mosaic Law, and nullify the words of Jesus Christ.
This will show how delusional that argument is.
This is Jesus after He was risen.
He specifically ordered them to teach the very same message He taught before His death.
"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: ..."
I don't know how anyone could get confused about the necessity to do what God tells is to do.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
If you sin, you're serving Satan.
Jesus came to destroy the works of Satan, not to give us permission to serve Satan.
How do you get so confused on such a simple matter?
Here's a little rule of thumb that may help; "God good, Satan bad"
We're saved by faith in Jesus.
Listen to Jesus; "Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.["
You're really confused about the Mosaic Law.
Jesus didn't die so that folks could play around with their lusts and entertain demons.
"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
.
I believe you are referring to this ...Quantrill said:
"So, let’s stop with all of this nonsense about just trusting in Jesus’ righteousness ..."
I am sorry that I did not make myself clear to you.
Did you notice the word "just"?
Several passages indicate that ...
BACs must be CONTINUING their righteousness for the Lord to consider them to still be righteous.
One cannot be sinning and disobedient, etc. and expect to still be considered to be righteous.
A personal challenge: Do you see OSAS being trashed in Romans 6:15-23?
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