It is mandatory for BACs to participate in their salvation

[Quantrill]

evangelist-7

I did ask a question which you did not answer. Nor did you address anything I said.

Have you improved on Christ's imputed righteousness?

Quantrill

 

[FHII]

Is he saying that they should not keep the commandments? No, he is saying that the keeping of them is not the source of our justification.

I am not disputing being moral. I am merely conveying the principle that our covenant is based on. Justification by way of grace through faith. There is much more proof in Galatians that we are no longer under any law for justification.

You are mixing the two covenants together. This was the offense of the Galatians. The keeping of commandments of law of any kind do not justify us for life. If they did, we would have cause for boasting. That possibility has been eliminated.

Amen!

 

[IBeMe]

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


For some are already turned aside after Satan.


Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



=======


Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;


For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.


To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

.

 

[williemac]

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


For some are already turned aside after Satan.


Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



=======


Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;


For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.


To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

.

Very good references. However, they do not refer to the believer but to the unbeliever. It is He (Jesus) who establishes our hearts blameless. We do not establish our own heart blameless. We cannot do that. We stand fast in Him through faith, working through love. No denying it. However, those who are working for their salvation are missing half of the equation: Faith. You can quote all you want about works that come from faith. But if you are talking about being justified for life by these works, then they are rather works without faith.

The first order in coming to the Lord for forgiveness of sin is to acknowledge the same things that Paul did in Rom.7: The law is good and sin is bad. Anyone coming to the Lord confessing his sin will not have an agenda for taking pleasure in unrighteousness. Those to the contrary are not true believers in the first place. Go back and read all your references. That is what they are saying. I am talking about real Christians here, not fake ones. And in their case, as John said in 1John 2:1, if anyone belonging to Him sins, we have Him as an advocate with the Father. Anyone who denies that fact....maybe is a fake believer...counting on his own righteousness to save him.

Lets look at two sides of the coin. side 1: woe is he who entices others to live a sinful lifestyle.

side 2: woe is he who entices others to live righteously to save their own skin.

My point is that we cannot counter the one with the other. They are both wrong

 

[IBeMe]

williemac: However, they do not refer to the believer but to the unbeliever.

That's not a truthful statement.

" For some are already turned aside after Satan. "

You can't turn away from something if you where never there.

williemac: It is He (Jesus) who establishes our hearts blameless. We do not establish our own heart blameless. We cannot do that.

We're saved by faith in Jesus: made born again of the Spirit sons of God.

By grace, we're given the POWER to keep the commandments of God.

" Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. "

The second we ask Jesus into our heart, we find ourselves in a whole new world that we probably didn't know existed due to spiritual blindness.

All of a sudden we find ourselves in the middle of violent spiritual warfare between God and Satan, for the soul of man.

Satan hates God vehemently.
Tries to trick us into behaving in ways that mock God, and God's creation.

God's commandments are the guidelines of how He created us to behave.

All sin is, is just perversive behavior that mocks God and His goodness.

Yes, we're not under the Mosaic Law, but that doesn't mean that we can turn ourselves into Satan's toys and become participants in mocking God; and encouraging others to do the same.

This is spiritual warfare, there's no neutral ground; inaction is willful submission.

Either we join God, pulling souls out of the grasp of Satan's hands.

Or, we're participants with Satan in deception and mockery of God's righteousness.

 

[williemac]

That's not a truthful statement.

" For some are already turned aside after Satan. "

You can't turn away from something if you where never there.



We're saved by faith in Jesus: made born again of the Spirit sons of God.

By grace, we're given the POWER to keep the commandments of God.

" Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. "

The second we ask Jesus into our heart, we find ourselves in a whole new world that we probably didn't know existed due to spiritual blindness.

All of a sudden we find ourselves in the middle of violent spiritual warfare between God and Satan, for the soul of man.

Satan hates God vehemently.
Tries to trick us into behaving in ways that mock God, and God's creation.

God's commandments are the guidelines of how He created us to behave.

All sin is, is just perversive behavior that mocks God and His goodness.

Yes, we're not under the Mosaic Law, but that doesn't mean that we can turn ourselves into Satan's toys and become participants in mocking God; and encouraging others to do the same.

This is spiritual warfare, there's no neutral ground; inaction is willful submission.

Either we join God, pulling souls out of the grasp of Satan's hands.

Or, we're participants with Satan in deception and mockery of God's righteousness.

For what it is worth, you might want to consider what Satan's offense was originally. He was Lucifer. His sin was that He left his created purpose and made the determination in his heart to rise up to the status of God.

I already share some things about this. 1John 2:16 speaks of all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. The sins that you speak of are in the first two categories. Mankind is in sin because of the disobedience of one man. That is fact. What happened to Adam and Eve is that they were cut off from spiritual life and all offspring from that time is born without God.

So it is inevitable that people try to produce or acquire for themselves that which they instinctively feel is missing. This is what leads to sin. It is the result of the attempt to fulfill oneself, to get life, to get happiness, to fill a perceived lack. People are ultimately trying to get for themselves that which only can come from God.

However, there is the third category; the pride of life. This is the one that reflects the original sin of Lucifer. It is the exaltation of self. And this is where I my focus is in these replies. What I see happening is that Satan is luring people into the third category of pride. Using the third category to overcome the first two is no different than jumping from the frying pan into the fire. The reason is that the third category is the real issue facing mankind in terms of everlasting life. GOD GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE, RESISTS THE PROUD.

Our mission in reaching the lost is not to get them behaving better. It is to reconcile them with God. (2Cor.5:19). And the basis of this reconciliation is the cross. It is in the generous offer of God to forgive sin. But what He does not and will not forgive is pride.

Therefore, as we can see from Galatians, a believer who falls back into works of law for justification is in fact falling back to Satan. Paul asked them.."who has bewitched you?"

Let me qualify this by saying that our behavior is important. Each of us has a created purpose. Our reconciliation to God includes the willingness to be fulfilled by fulfilling our God given role.

We are called to bear fruit. However, we have this treasure in earthen vessels (2Cor.4:7). We are weak. We are dependent on God's power, but even more so on His grace....and mercy!

I say that your position is a potentially dangerous one. You seem to have reduced our life into self saving measures. In so many words, I am getting the message that you are suggesting that we are given the power to act righteously so that we can be justified.

Your message is that we are saved by grace through faith so that we can be given the ability to keep our salvation through works. Correct me if I have misinterpreted this. Because if this is what you are standing on, you are asking us to do what only God can do. Furthermore, you are pulling us back into works of law for justification. I know you insist that we are not under the Mosaic law. But Paul did not say that. He said we are not under law. Period. And what is sin? It is transgression of law. If anyone is abstaining from sin, by default he is obeying law. There is nothing wrong with that UNTIL....or UNLESS.... it becomes a matter of the pride of life. The attempt to justify oneself through behavior is a matter of the pride of life. It is the equivalent to leaving our created purpose and trying to elevate self to the status of God. God is the only source of life and righteousness. We are not. As I said before, doing the right things for the wrong reasons is no more profitable than doing the wrong things.

As long as people come here to tell us that we need to save ourselves, I will oppose them. There is only ONE savior.

 

[FHII]

Satan wasn't Lucifer. Lucifer was a man....

 

[IBeMe]

williemac: Therefore, as we can see from Galatians, a believer who falls back into works of law for justification is in fact falling back to Satan.

Of course, you're totally confused about the law and the commandments of God.

But, in your confused doctrine, you claim the words of Jesus were done away by the words of Paul, as crazy as that sounds.

Jesus; " but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. "

Now you're saying that if Christians do what Jesus says, "but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments", they are "falling back to Satan."

You're accusing Christians, who do what Jesus says, of following Satan.

You're saying, if we listen to Jesus, we end up serving Satan.

You're accusing Jesus of leading us to Satan.

You've twisted so many scriptures, you're spinning out of control in confusion.

.

 

[FHII]

IBeMe, that is just about the craziest thing I heard.... Willimac said nothing like that! THe way I see it you are either going to serve God by a law which you can't keep or by the law of faith.

SO YOU TELL ME! What was it that Jesus said? What were his commandments? Was it the Law of Moses, the Law of Abraham or the Law of Faith?

All these folks are telling me to keep Jesus' commandments, and I want to! But what were they? And what adjustments did Peter and Paul and ok.... Even James make to them under the authority of Jesus?

So tell me... What are the commandments Jesus told us to keep?

 

[IBeMe]

FHII: IBeMe, that is just about the craziest thing I heard.... Willimac said nothing like that!

In one of the many places...

Willimac; " Notice he did not say "the" law. He merely said by law.
Conclusion? In that letter, Paul is including all of the law contained in the first covenant."

So, he's twisting the scripture to include this.

" but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? ... Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, ..."

He then declares that those who keep these commandments, as Jesus instructs, to be right before God, are "falling back to Satan."

Yes, he puts the commandments Jesus quoted under that which Paul says is done away.

Yes,he twist the words of anyone saying to keep the commandments of God, " pulling us back into works of law for justification. "

Willimac (same post); " Furthermore, you are pulling us back into works of law for justification. "

Here's his quote:

" a believer who falls back into works of law (he added the commandments Jesus quoted) for justification is in fact falling back to Satan. "

 

[Dodo_David]

In Romans chapter seven, the Apostle Paul laments about the fact that his flesh kept sinning, contrary to the desire of his spirit.
So, did Paul lose his salvation whenever his flesh sinned?

 

[IBeMe]

Dodo_David : In Romans chapter seven, the Apostle Paul laments about the fact that his flesh kept sinning, contrary to the desire of his spirit.
So, did Paul lose his salvation whenever his flesh sinned?

Paul struggling with sin? ... No way.

" And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. "

In Romans 7; Paul was speaking about the perplexity of man, after the law but before Salvation.

This chapter is about the Mosaic Law, and its relationship to Salvation, not Paul's struggles with sin.

Earlier, Paul makes it clear that Christians can't sin.

" What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? "

" God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? "

 

[John Zain]

Earlier, Paul makes it clear that Christians can't sin.
" What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? "
" God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? "

It is very distressing to me to see that you (and everyone else it seems)
completely misses Paul's method of writing and dealing with the churches!!!

E.G. in your 2 verses above, Paul does not mean what his words are suggesting.
I.E. In all of his epistles, Paul condemns BACs in the churches for their sinning!!!
(Similar to Jesus in Revelation 2 and 3.)

HEADS UP!!! ... IT IS HIGH TIME BACs UNDERSTAND WHAT PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT.

And praise the Lord, you guys can be the first (as far as I can see).

WOW!!!

 

[williemac]

Paul struggling with sin? ... No way.

" And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. "

In Romans 7; Paul was speaking about the perplexity of man, after the law but before Salvation.

This chapter is about the Mosaic Law, and its relationship to Salvation, not Paul's struggles with sin.

Earlier, Paul makes it clear that Christians can't sin.

" What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? "

" God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? "

Christians can't sin? Do you mean they ought not to (not allowed)? Or do you mean not able to? Got news for you no one has ever been allowed to sin. The law forbids sin. But as Paul revealed to the Galatians, the law was given to confine all under sin. It was given to be the measure that determines and identifies sin.

So man has never been allowed to sin. Not before the law, not during the old covenant, and not now. But man has always been able to sin, both before salvation and after salvation. But the difference is that the consequences of sin (wages), have been paid by Jesus on our behalf. And we who accept this sacrifice are placed in proxy with Him on the cross. The old man is dead, crucified with Christ. And what is this old man? The body of death that Paul referred to in Rom.7. The part of us that contains sin is dead. The part of us that is born again contains God's righteousness (the new man..Eph.4:24). This treasure is contained in earthen vessels (2Cor.4:7). The earthen vessel is our body of sin, our flesh.

We are told to walk according to the new man. But what is our motive? Is it fear of consequences? Are we reduced to behaving ourselves just to avoid wrath? (The bible says we love Him because He first loved us.) The truth is that the threat of death and destruction never caused one sinner to change his nature. This is because we cannot do it. God is changing our nature, starting with the new birth and finishing with the resurrection, when we finally shed this body of sinful influence.

We are in a covenant with God. This covenant is based on the shed blood of Jesus. and we entered this covenant by faith. The only way we can opt out is to turn from faith, to turn from the acceptance of His blood sacrifice. Sin cannot accomplish this, no matter what you think or say. 1John2:1 says if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father. His blood sacrifice is applied to us as part of the covenant, not just if we behave ourselves.

We do not have permission to sin. Therefore Jesus promises that He will deal with those whom He loves (and knows) through rebuke and chastening. The suggestion that He will abandon them completely, or kill them, goes against His word and His plan.

In fact, if a believer were to fall away, Heb.6:1-6 claims that it is impossible to renew him again to repentance. So if sin is the equivalent to falling away, you are wasting your time talking to anyone whom you think may have sinned...willful or not.

As far as which law Paul was talking about in Rom.7...just read vs.7. It is the moral law of commandments. And yes, this is the Mosaic law, as the ten commandments came down from Mount Sinai with Moses. And this is the old covenant, which is called bondage (Gal.4:23-25). In fact, Paul tells them to stand fast in the liberty by which Christ has set us free and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage (Gal.5:1) And in vs, 4, He claims that they are estranged from Christ (not fallen away) those who attempt to be justified by law. Which law? read the context. That which came from Mount Sinai.

So tell us again, you two above. Are we justified for life by not sinning? (keeping the moral law) Or are we free from the consequences so that we can serve in newness of life, without the yoke and oppression and pressure of the threat of wrath hanging over our heads?

Is it God's love that makes us respond to Him? Or is it His wrath and hatred for sin? We love Him because He first threatened us? Really? It was while we were yet sinners that Christ died for the ungodly. He made sin His problem to solve. Why are you making it ours to solve?

 

[IBeMe]

williemac
So man has never been allowed to sin. Not before the law, not during the old covenant, and not now. But man has always been able to sin, both before salvation and after salvation. But the difference is that the consequences of sin (wages), have been paid by Jesus on our behalf. And we who accept this sacrifice are placed in proxy with Him on the cross. The old man is dead, crucified with Christ. And what is this old man? The body of death that Paul referred to in Rom.7. The part of us that contains sin is dead. The part of us that is born again contains God's righteousness (the new man..Eph.4:24). This treasure is contained in earthen vessels (2Cor.4:7). The earthen vessel is our body of sin, our flesh.

Paul says that we're forgiven past sins when we accept Jesus as our savior.

And Paul says that if we sin wilfully, after coming to the knowledge of the truth, we face judgment and have done despite to the Spirit of grace.

Apparently, you want to make it clear that you're trying to turn grace into lasciviousness.

" For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. "

You've made it clear what your goal is ... won't succeed.

williemac: Therefore, as we can see from Galatians, a believer who falls back into works of law for justification is in fact falling back to Satan

But, let's get back to weightier matters.

Of course, you're twisting the scriptures in Galatians to try and support your lascivious doctrine.

But, now you say if we do what Jesus says, with the goal to stay right before God, we're " in fact falling back to Satan ."

" And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

" He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, "

" Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

You have declared that these commandments were done away in Galatians.

A: Are you standing by your doctrine that Christians who do what Jesus says, here, are turning back to Satan?

B: Are you willing to admit that you're teaching a false doctrine?

Which is it?

Your doctrine, as you say above; if we do what Jesus says, we're falling back to Satan.

Jesus says that His words; "are spirit, and they are life."

But, you say following those words will lead to Satan.

Which is it?


.

 

[Dodo_David]

Paul struggling with sin? ... No way.

" And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. "

In Romans 7; Paul was speaking about the perplexity of man, after the law but before Salvation.

This chapter is about the Mosaic Law, and its relationship to Salvation, not Paul's struggles with sin.

Earlier, Paul makes it clear that Christians can't sin.

" What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? "

" God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? "

I cannot reconcile what you are saying to what I read in the Apostle Paul's epistles.

In Romans 7:19, Paul writes, "For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." (ESV)

Again, Paul is contrasting the desire of his spirit with the works of his flesh.

In chapter 6, Paul is talking about the desire to continue sinning. Paul scolds people who have such a desire after they have called upon the name of the Lord.

 

[FHII]

Paul says that we're forgiven past sins when we accept Jesus as our savior.

And Paul says that if we sin wilfully, after coming to the knowledge of the truth, we face judgment and have done despite to the Spirit of grace.

Apparently, you want to make it clear that you're trying to turn grace into lasciviousness.




.

First off, you are quoting Hebrews 10:26 without reading Hebrews 10:25, states "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves toghether...." So the willful sin in verse 26 is talking about ONE particular sin: Not going to Church! This is a spiritual sin because it is by preaching that you get faith.

Second, it irks me that anyone who doesn't believe in grace through faith alone immediately believes that those who do believe that we are saved by grace though faith alone are preaching a lascivious lifestyle. That is simply not true and is rediculous.

 

[IBeMe]

Dodo_David: I cannot reconcile what you are saying to what I read in the Apostle Paul's epistles.

In Romans 7:19, Paul writes, "For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." (ESV)

Again, Paul is contrasting the desire of his spirit with the works of his flesh.

Well, I guess Paul was thousands of years old, at that time, he says he was alive before the law.

Also, I guess Paul was among the living dead for a few thousand years because he says that when the law came, he died.

It's pretty easy to understand that Paul was figuratively speaking of man's predicament; after the law and before Salvation.

Irregardless of how silly we wish to interpret Romans 7, it doesn't matter because Paul says that he was delivered by Jesus Christ, in 25.

If we're interested in the truth;

" And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. "

.

FHII
First off, you are quoting Hebrews 10:26 without reading Hebrews 10:25, states "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves toghether...." So the willful sin in verse 26 is talking about ONE particular sin: Not going to Church! This is a spiritual sin because it is by preaching that you get faith.

First off, you're trying to use 25, without reading 24.

That's why you jumped to this silly conclusion.

Hebrews 10:24-25 are one sentence.
There is a colan at the end of 24.
The colan means that 25 goes with 24.

' The most common use of the colon is to inform the reader that what follows the colon proves, explains, defines, describes, or lists elements of what preceded it '

Verse 25 is a sub part of 24.
That's how grammar works.

It's a grammatical error.
Also, it doesn't make any sense.

So, this scripture stands on its on.
You weren't able to take it away from us by twisting verse 25.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

FHII
Second, it irks me that anyone who doesn't believe in grace through faith alone immediately believes that those who do believe that we are saved by grace though faith alone are preaching a lascivious lifestyle. That is simply not true and is rediculous.

" grace through faith alone " ???
What's that supposed to mean? ... I've heard of Salvation by faith.

I'm guessing you're referring to this scripture.

" For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. "

Well, if a person teaches that Christians aren't responsible for their actions after salvation; they, by definition, place themselves in that scripture.

Jesus didn't die so that folks could play around with their lusts and entertain demons.

If we sin, we glorify Satan.

If we stop sinning and keep the commandments of God, then we glorify God and justify the high price that was paid for salvation.


.

 

[williemac]

Paul says that we're forgiven past sins when we accept Jesus as our savior.

And Paul says that if we sin wilfully, after coming to the knowledge of the truth, we face judgment and have done despite to the Spirit of grace.

Apparently, you want to make it clear that you're trying to turn grace into lasciviousness.

" For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. "

You've made it clear what your goal is ... won't succeed.




.

Now you are just being stubborn. I already showed you how Paul never said that God just forgives past sins of a person. I showed you how and why the word "forbearance" is in that passage, and what it means. I showed you how the passage reveals that God looked ahead to the cross and used his forbearance to pass over sins, in anticipation of the sacrifice of Jesus for sin, and showed how this time frame previous to the cross was compared to by the words "at this present time". I also have looked at several commentaries that confirm exactly what this passage from Paul really means, which is my own understanding as well.
If you insist that your interpretation is correct, then I cannot help you except to say that you have inferior and insufficient command of language skills to properly understand the communication laid out in scripture. Unless all you are doing is repeating what you are taught without questioning it: something I highly recommend you stop doing.

Furthermore, I suggest you quit taking people opinions for fact, because there is absolutely no proof that Paul wrote Hebrews. It is merely speculation. As for sinning willfully, I also walked you and others through the book of Hebrews before and after that one verse, showing that it could not be referring to a BAC, but rather to a Jew who has heard the gospel and rejected the sacrifice of Jesus, therefore having no sacrifice remaining to cover his sin. In fact, if it means what you say, then there are many passages in scripture that it would contradict; passages that I have referred to which you are "willfully" ignoring.

And in light of your response my recent post which I agree that no one has permission to sin....your response to that is to accuse me of promoting lasciviousness? Your brain is obviously in neutral. You are obviously not even reading anything other than your own preferred propaganda. Certainly not the bible and certainly not my posts. You are just repeating your mantra, over and over.

You can quote scripture all you want that I am turning grace into something...but that puts me in good company, because Paul was repeatedly slandered himself in the same way for the same accusation. But in the meantime I will continue to quote the passages from Paul that show how you are turning the cross into a temporary and fleeting sacrifice...only long enough to put a person right back under the law for justification. I will ask you the same question Paul asked the Galatians...who has bewitched you?

But it comes as no surprise that you consider I am promoting a license to sin. You need to take sin off of the pedestal you have it on. It is not as sweet as you think it is. I suspect the law, the threat of death, is the only thing preventing you from entering into a lascivious lifestyle. It is obviously something you long for but are too afraid to do. I mean, why else would you assume that everyone else is wanting to go for it? I have news for you. Sin is not fulfilling. It does not give life. It does not bring joy or happiness. It causes pain and creates victims. It merely gives temporary relief to the dissatisfaction and emptiness of those who are in it.

So who cares about a license to sin? It is nothing more than a license to be miserable. BIG DEAL!!!! Give you fellow brothers a little credit. You think no one but you and I have figured that out? There are plenty of reasons...good reasons, to walk away from sin. The threat of God's wrath is off the table, thanks to the cross and faith in it. This is exactly what Jesus said in John 5:24.

You know what your problem is? You have no faith in His ability to complete what He started. You have no faith in His power to build His church without help. You have no faith in His ability to fulfill His promise to Abraham. You don't believe God! He said He would remember our sins no more if we enter His covenant. And FYI, the passage does not say "past" sins no more.

 

[FHII]

.


First off, you're trying to use 25, without reading 24.

That's why you jumped to this silly conclusion.

Hebrews 10:24-25 are one sentence.
There is a colan at the end of 24.
The colan means that 25 goes with 24.

' The most common use of the colon is to inform the reader that what follows the colon proves, explains, defines, describes, or lists elements of what preceded it '

Verse 25 is a sub part of 24.
That's how grammar works.

It's a grammatical error.
Also, it doesn't make any sense.

So, this scripture stands on its on.
You weren't able to take it away from us by twisting verse 25.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So you are suggesting it was a grammical error and doesn't make sense, huh?

No, the verses doesn't stand on it's own and I'm looking at verse 26 with the entire chapter in mind. The verse beings, "FOR IF WE sin..." This clearly indicates that there is a former idea in mind. Verse 26 expounds on verse 25 which we know is true because it starts with "for if..." That's how paragraphs work.

I've looked at the verse in question in the context of the entire chapter, which by the way, says that the sacrifices prescribed by the Law forgive past sins, but not future sins. The LAW does that. The chapter also tells us that Jesus' sacrifice is different and forgives ALL sins (past, present and future). Verses 1-18 describe that and verse 19 to 31 tell us what to do next with verses 26-31 telling us what happens if we don't.

As for grace through faith alone, no I was not referring to Jude. There are several verses throughout the NT that say faith works alone... The one that was on my mind most heavily was from eph 2.