Tropical Islander said:
That was some funny reasoning around the theme of "bondage" in the post 2 up.
Let's have a practical example, if for example I'd say "I love God" and mean it, according to that I would risk to be in bondage because I secretly could want to be justified by remembering it's also the first commandment,.
nobody ever heard of such an absurd thing. Better explanation would be I have an actual relationship with Jesus and don't care what religious people think about it.
we are never in bondage pleasing Jesus, that is totally absurd, in that regard I agree with what was previously said about the "confusion" regarding what Satan wants and what Jesus deserves..
here is an Biblical example about real bondage and it's relating main factor:
2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
Bondage always relates to sin, that is what can bring and keep us in bondage, not to love God or our neighbour, or do other pleasing things God aproves of, nobody thinks in such legalistic terms except theologians that twist doctrines that seem to make some logical sense, unless you try them with practical examples, then they suddenly sound strange and somhow void of content, as nobody managed to really love God in order to obtain or even be interested in salvation, circumstances like that do not exisit in real life.
If the book of Revelation is any prove, the prophecy of the resurrected Jesus is STILL the same as in the time when he walked the earth.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
There goes the distorted idea that Jesus is teaching 2 covenants, what is beat to death on forums and not actually true, Jesus does not teach 2 different things before and after the cross, that's an American invention that is based on Darbys' dispensationalism to keep everybody OUT of the group of the saints of Rev 14:12. In the most simplest terms, we either identify with these saints, or we are not one of them.
Thank you for your participation. I would like to explain my use of the word bondage. I would not expect you to have read through this thread, but FYI, the pattern has been that IBeMe has not really engaged in any meaningful scriptural debate or discussion, but rather picked on a couple of things I said and repeatedly quotes them out of context, thus misrepresenting my point. Then he repeats the same demand over and over that I confess my error.
My mention of Satan was merely a response to his first mention of Satan. I was merely countering him. As well, my mention of bondage was in that context. I was using it from the letter to the Galatians. The bondage mentioned in that letter was not bondage to sin, but rather bondage from the covenant of law. In Gal.4:24, Paul talks of two covenants, the one of which came down from Mt. Sinai giving birth to
bondage. The word crops up again in Gal.5:1, where Paul exhorts them to stand fast in the liberty by which Christ has set us fee and be not entangled again with a yoke
of bondage. To put an exclamation on it, in vs.4, Paul tells them they have become estranged from Christ and fallen from grace by way of their attempt to be justified by law.
So please, my friend. I beg to differ from your point of view. I am not following anyone else's viewpoint. I have derived at my own conclusions in my quest to understand the bible in such a way as to erase any perceived contradiction. My observation is that Jesus gave two differing requirements for life, depending on the context.
After Paul's conversion, he went into the wilderness for no less than 14 years, no doubt to study and be taught by the Holy Spirit. The revelation he received explains the purpose for the law, which was to tutor the people, to lead them to Christ. He also said the it was instituted until the time when faith would be revealed. Faith revealed? What do you suppose that even means? My take is that the purpose and role of faith in receiving life was not yet understood, because the object of it, the sacrifice of Jesus, had not yet occurred.
Jesus could not fully reveal His mission publicly, which was to died for sin, because as the bible says, if they knew and understood who He was, they would not have crucified Him. Thus, the first covenant remained in place until after His death, as is explained in Hebrews.
So just from what we know of the time frame, the covenant of law was not replaced by the covenant of grace until after the death of Jesus. And from our look at Paul's letters, there can be no mistaking his confirmation of John 3:16, that life is a free gift, granted by grace, given by way of our faith in Him, and as Rom.10:4 confirms...Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those who believe.
Does the law still have a purpose? Yes. It has always had the purpose of giving man a standard to compare himself with, so that he can see his need for a savior. Don't you think Jesus would have understood that? Throughout His time here He frequently revealed to the people that they were falling short. He never let anyone off the hook.
The bondage that I am speaking of is the fact that man does not have the resources within himself to fully satisfy the righteous requirement of the law. The release from that bondage is in the change of the requirement for life...from law to grace, from works to faith.
The bondage of sin, on the other hand, is removed by way of our being made a new creation. But this is a two stage operation. It begins at the new birth, and is finished at the resurrection.
The doctrine that I am opposing is the idea that we are given the Holy Spirit for the purpose of our being successful in keeping the requirements of law for justification, through His ability in us. While no one is putting it in those exact terms, that is the bottom line of what they propose. They are doing what the Galatians were doing. They are going back under the law for justification. (in my humble and respectful opinion). The Holy Spirit is not given to change the conditions of the covenant. Life comes to us by the free gift of grace, given to the humble, through faith in Jesus, and will not change or revert back to the "bondage" that came from Mt Sinai.
Lets do the right things for the right reasons. Life is not earned. It is always freely given and freely received. Otherwise Christ died in vain.
That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
