It is not in the bible.....sola scripture

[twinc]

We don't know the extent of how many people knew about Joseph and Mary and Jesus.
It seems it's not in the Bible, therefore is not important for us to know.

how about those who knew all about Jesus having brothers and sisters and those who knew these were Mary's children which it also seems is not in the bible - twinc

 

[BreadOfLife]

Lol, you are of good humor at times.
I am quite comfortable with my beliefs, which allows me to laugh at yours.
You scream at everyone that you want proof
We all show you proof and you cry foul
Come with me, I'll show you how the rest of the world lives.....

TRANSLATION:
I don't have any proof for the asinine claims I made regarding Catholics "worshipping" Mary not God - so I'll paste a silly picture."

Yeah - that''s what I thought . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh, so you rely on an unsaved Jew to interpret Scripture for you.
Wow, this is getting deep.....

How do YOU know Josephus wasn't saved?
Only GOD can read the heart - not you.

Besides - I wasn't using him to "interpret" Scripture. Just to show you that the word "Adelphos" doesn't always means uterine brother.
So far, all you've done is get angry about the evidence I've presented - but you haven't produces anything to counter what I presented.

 

[GodsGrace]

have read it in the past - so remind us again especially Part 8 - meanwhile what exactly is the problem - see Matt 16:19 and 18:18 - twinc

First of all
Mathew 16:19 and 18:18

are you saying that GOD is going to CHANGE to accomodate a man on earth?
Both scripturs pertain to this idea.

Could this possibly mean that the Keys were given to Peter to loose on earth the power to preach the word of God and to bind on earth the power of satan by preaching against him?

As to part, or chapter, 8 of the Pope's encyclical:

Until 1917 divorced couples were not even allowed to enter a Church.
This was changed and with Vatican Council II divorced couples could attend a liturgy but were not welcomed to Communion.
LET ALONE A COUPLE THAT WAS DIVORCED AND REMARRIED.

In Chapter 8, Pope Francis now Leaves the decision as to whether a remarried couple an receive communion or not to the Priest of the couple. Since he is more of a pastor than a theologian, as was Pope Benedict, he finds this to be the correct procedure.

THIS IS A CHANGE IN DOCTRINE.

Many bishops voiced their dismay at these words.
Words which, BTW, were left so vague as to satisfy either side of the argument.However, it cannot be denied that doctrine HAS BEEN CHANGED.

 

[BreadOfLife]

We don't know the extent of how many people knew about Joseph and Mary and Jesus.
It seems it's not in the Bible, therefore is not important for us to know.

Really??
Can you show me where to find the word, "Trinity" in the Bible??
How about "Incarnation"??

These are both CORE dogmas of the Christian faith and neither of them are mentioned in the Bible.
Does that mean that they're "not important" for us to know??

While we're at it - the word "Bible" doesn't appear in the Bible - and neither does a list of Books that comprise the Bible.
Is that also "not important" for us to know??

 

[GodsGrace]

TRANSLATION:
I don't have any proof for the asinine claims I made regarding Catholics "worshipping" Mary not God - so I'll paste a silly picture."

Yeah - that''s what I thought . . .

BoL
I hate to get in the middle of this, but I couldn't help it.

You know very well that many Catholics are not as well-read as you are and that priests do nothing to resolve this dilemma. Not all. Some have started bible study.

MANY Catholics "worship" Mary. As I've said, they do not know the difference between venerating and worshipping.

Some pray to Mary as an intercessor, some pray to Mary as if she was God.

THIS CANNOT BE DENIED.
The CCC teaches that Mary is not to be worshipped.
How many Catholics do YOU know that read the CCC?

 

[BreadOfLife]

First of all
Mathew 16:19 and 18:18

are you telling that GOD is going to CHANGE to accomodate a man on earth?
Both scripturs pertain to this idea.

Could this possibly mean that the Keys were given to Peter to loose on earth the power to preach the word of God and to bind on earth the power of satan by preaching against him?

Absolutely not.
It all ties in with Jesus's promise to the leaders of His Church at the Last Supper:
John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

Jesus promised that His Church couldn't teach incorrect doctrine because of the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

As to part, or chapter, 8 of the Pope's encyclical:

Until 1917 divorced couples were not even allowed to enter a Church.
This was changed and with Vatican Council II divorced couples could attend a liturgy but were not welcomed to Communion.
LET ALONE A COUPLE THAT WAS DIVORCED AND REMARRIED.

In Chapter 8, Pope Francis now Leaves the decision as to whether a remarried couple an receive communion or not to the Priest of the couple. Since he is more of a pastor than a theologian, as was Pope Benedict, he finds this to be the correct procedure.

THIS IS A CHANGE IN DOCTRINE.

Many bishops voiced their dismay at these words.
Words which, BTW, were left so vague as to satisfy either side of the argument.However, it cannot be denied that doctrine HAS BEEN CHANGED.

Wrong.
This is a matter of discipline - NOT doctrine.

Priestly celibacy is also a matter of discipline that could theoretically change.
Don't just blurt something out because YOU believe it to be so. Check the sources.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The catechism says, The devotion to the blessed virgin is a very special devotion.
It differs essentially from the adoration given to God.
Yet the definition of both words, as shown below, include the word worship as part of it's definition.

So go ahead and tell that to your average catholic who knows nothing of the Bible except what is mentioned in a church service, or, excuse me, mass.
The average Christian in the catholic church certainly does worship Mary, just ask any Knights of Columbus member.

de·vo·tion
dəˈvōSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: devotion

1. love, loyalty, or enthusiasm for a person, activity, or cause.
   "Eleanor's devotion to her husband"
   synonyms: loyalty, faithfulness, fidelity, constancy, commitment, adherence, allegiance, dedication; More
   fondness, love, admiration, affection, care
   "her devotion to her husband"
   • religious worship or observance.
     "the order's aim was to live a life of devotion"
     synonyms: devoutness, piety, religiousness, spirituality, godliness, holiness, sanctity
     "a life of devotion"
   • prayers or religious observances.
     plural noun: devotions
     synonyms: religious worship, worship, religious observance; More
     prayers;
     prayer meeting, church service
     "morning devotions"

Origin


ad·o·ra·tion
ˌadəˈrāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: adoration; plural noun: adorations

1. 1.
   deep love and respect.
   "he gave her a look of adoration"
   synonyms: love, devotion, care, fondness; More
   admiration, high regard, awe, idolization, worship, hero worship, adulation
   "the girl gazed at him with adoration"
   worship, glory, glorification, praise, thanksgiving, homage, exaltation, veneration, reverence
   "our day of prayer and adoration"
2. 2.
   worship; veneration.
   "the Adoration of the Magi"

 

[BreadOfLife]

BoL
I hate to get in the middle of this, but I couldn't help it.

You know very well that many Catholics are not as well-read as you are and that priests do nothing to resolve this dilemma. Not all. Some have started bible study.

MANY Catholics "worship" Mary. As I've said, they do not know the difference between venerating and worshipping.

Some pray to Mary as an intercessor, some pray to Mary as if she was God.

THIS CANNOT BE DENIED.
The CCC teaches that Mary is not to be worshipped.
How many Catholics do YOU know that read the CCC?

There are absolutely some confused Catholic who pervert the teachings of the Church.
You have these kinds of people in EVERY Protestant as well - so what's your point?

 

[GodsGrace]

From those who know very little, you mean.

It appears that you are confused.
A person who receives a Declaration of Nullity and marries another person - that marriage is valid. An Annulment is not a Catholic "divorce". It is a declaration that a sacramental marriage never took place.

On the other hand - if a person simply gets a civil divorce and does not seek an annulment and remarries - that person is in a state of grave sin and cannot receive the Eucharist.
NOTHING has changed here, so I don't know where you're getting your false information -= but it ain't from the Church.

Funny.
You're explaining Catholic doctrine to me!

PLEASE FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Seems you don't know everything...
Speak to your local friendly priest and you'll have to retract your entire post above.

I'm not talking about ANNULMENTS.
Which, BTW, the CC will be doing A LOT MORE OF these days.

 

[GodsGrace]

From those who know very little, you mean.

It appears that you are confused.
A person who receives a Declaration of Nullity and marries another person - that marriage is valid. An Annulment is not a Catholic "divorce". It is a declaration that a sacramental marriage never took place.

On the other hand - if a person simply gets a civil divorce and does not seek an annulment and remarries - that person is in a state of grave sin and cannot receive the Eucharist.
NOTHING has changed here, so I don't know where you're getting your false information -= but it ain't from the Church.

BTW BoL
I'm NEVER confused.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The catechism says, The devotion to the blessed virgin is a very special devotion.
It differs essentially from the adoration given to God.
Yet the definition of both words, as shown below, include the word worship as part of it's definition.

So go ahead and tell that to your average catholic who knows nothing of the Bible except what is mentioned in a church service, or, excuse me, mass.
The average Christian in the catholic church certainly does worship Mary, just ask any Knights of Columbus member.

de·vo·tion
dəˈvōSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: devotion

1. love, loyalty, or enthusiasm for a person, activity, or cause.
   "Eleanor's devotion to her husband"
   synonyms: loyalty, faithfulness, fidelity, constancy, commitment, adherence, allegiance, dedication; More
   fondness, love, admiration, affection, care
   "her devotion to her husband"
   • religious worship or observance.
     "the order's aim was to live a life of devotion"
     synonyms: devoutness, piety, religiousness, spirituality, godliness, holiness, sanctity
     "a life of devotion"
   • prayers or religious observances.
     plural noun: devotions
     synonyms: religious worship, worship, religious observance; More
     prayers;
     prayer meeting, church service
     "morning devotions"

Origin

ad·o·ra·tion
ˌadəˈrāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: adoration; plural noun: adorations

1. 1.
   deep love and respect.
   "he gave her a look of adoration"
   synonyms: love, devotion, care, fondness; More
   admiration, high regard, awe, idolization, worship, hero worship, adulation
   "the girl gazed at him with adoration"
   worship, glory, glorification, praise, thanksgiving, homage, exaltation, veneration, reverence
   "our day of prayer and adoration"
2. 2.
   worship; veneration.
   "the Adoration of the Magi"

And NONE of what you just posted points to "worship" of Mary.
Where does ANY of this point to that??

Look - you seem like a pretty angry guy. I say this only because of all of the lies you have to tell in your anti-Catholic rants.
As I stated before - go ahead and hate the Church all you want - but realize that in doing so, you are hating God Himself (Luke 10:16).

 

[bbyrd009]

but your penance is paying to have the window replaced or taking the time to replace it yourself.

ah, nice; didn't know this was done

 

[GodsGrace]

There are absolutely some confused Catholic who pervert the teachings of the Church.
You have these kinds of people in EVERY Protestant as well - so what's your point?

My point is simple:

There is NO TEACHING in the Catholic Church.
Members DO WORSHIP Mary as a result of this.

 

[bbyrd009]

A priest does not fit the Scriptural definition of a man? Fascinating!

ha it's just a logical argument that can be made, not sure i buy it much lol

 

[BreadOfLife]

Funny.
You're explaining Catholic doctrine to me!

PLEASE FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Seems you don't know everything...
Speak to your local friendly priest and you'll have to retract your entire post above.

I'm not talking about ANNULMENTS.
Which, BTW, the CC will be doing A LOT MORE OF these days.

Look GG - I'm not trying to fight with you.
I'm just trying to explain to you that the information you are getting is dead wrong.

As for "more annulments" - you can ONLY receive one if your marriage was sacramentally illicit.
They don't just hand them out to everybody. I know people whose were rejected because they DID have a sacramental marriage.

PS - what's so "funny" about explaining Catholic doctrine to you?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Really??
Can you show me where to find the word, "Trinity" in the Bible??
How about "Incarnation"??

These are both CORE dogmas of the Christian faith and neither of them are mentioned in the Bible.
Does that mean that they're "not important" for us to know??

While we're at it - the word "Bible" doesn't appear in the Bible - and neither does a list of Books that comprise the Bible.
Is that also "not important" for us to know??

they are cores of catholicism, as is christmas and easter

 

[BreadOfLife]

My point is simple:

There is NO TEACHING in the Catholic Church.
Members DO WORSHIP Mary as a result of this.

So, you're just another anti-Catholic who resorts to lies instead of reasoning.
And I thought you were charitable.

What a drag . . .

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

And NONE of what you just posted points to "worship" of Mary.
Where does ANY of this point to that??

Look - you seem like a pretty angry guy. I say this only because of all of the lies you have to tell in your anti-Catholic rants.
As I stated before - go ahead and hate the Church all you want - but realize that in doing so, you are hating God Himself (Luke 10:16).

Wow, trying to throw a guilt trip on me saying I hate catholicism because they all worship Mary.
It's sad to hear you speak this way.
Do you have any friends?

 

[BreadOfLife]

they are cores of catholicism, as is christmas and easter

So, you don't believe ion the Trinity?
You don't believe in the Incarnation??
You don't believe in the Canon of Scripture?

Do you even know where the Canon of the New Testament came from??