Its not what you know

[DNB]

I'm thinking that we are given understanding of the Bible in ways Satan will never have.

Just like the athiests, actually, there is no such thing, they may know the words it says, but not what it means.

Much love!

Well, don't underestimate his wiles or insights, this is why he will be as guilty as he will, that is, because he knows better.
He just feels he can either usurp or frustrate God's plan for his Son. He is fully aware of God's intent for Jesus, his miraculous birth, and all the miracles that are performed in his name. Thus, he is without excuse. Remember seven sons of Sceva, '...Paul we know, Jesus we know (and obey) but who are you'.
But for us, we acknowledge Christ's love and deserving exaltation, Satan is just jealous (for example).

 

[marks]

Well, don't underestimate his wiles or insights, this is why he will be as guilty as he will, that is, because he knows better.
He just feels he can either usurp or frustrate God's plan for his Son. He is fully aware of God's intent for Jesus, his miraculous birth, and all the miracles that are performed in his name. Thus, he is without excuse. Remember seven sons of Sceva, '...Paul we know, Jesus we know (and obey) but who are you'.
But for us, we acknowledge Christ's love and deserving exaltation, Satan is just jealous (for example).

Of course . . . if the devil were so up on things, why exactly would he be trying to overthrow God? I think there's something he's missing.

Just the same, yes, we have to remember, he's like a lion walking around looking for someone to eat!

 

[DNB]

This is why I ak the question, how are we to make our calling and election sure, that is, a certainty?

Much love!

There is no way, in my opinion. At least, not until one's faith increases to the point that there is much more sanctification in their lives, and that you are unmistakingly empowered by the Holy Spirit i.e. miracles, prophecies, healing, wisdom, etc... Not the feeble attestation that many like to claim.

 

[DNB]

Of course . . . if the devil were so up on things, why exactly would he be trying to overthrow God? I think there's something he's missing.

Just the same, yes, we have to remember, he's like a lion walking around looking for someone to eat!

Yes, of course, definitely missing something, or some sort of blinding delusion and insatiable wickedness that reason (aware of God's sovereignty) does not apply anymore.
Which, many wicked men suffer from, megalomania.

 

[marks]

There is no way, in my opinion. At least, not until one's faith increases to the point that there is much more sanctification in their lives, and that you are unmistakingly empowered by the Holy Spirit i.e. miracles, prophecies, healing, wisdom, etc... Not the feeble attestation that many like to claim.

Fair enough!

What about the internal evidence? Like broken addictions, healed emotions, true signs of repentance, like that. but without working miracles, or making prophecies, the visible evidence?

Much love!

 

[DNB]

Fair enough!

What about the internal evidence? Like broken addictions, healed emotions, true signs of repentance, like that. but without working miracles, or making prophecies, the visible evidence?

Much love!

I would think that any secularist can do that, and they have. I mean, let's face it, some atheists live more righteous and disciplined lives than many Christians (I hope that I don't need to qualify this point). Even a Buddhist may experience more internal tranquility and serenity than many Christians, for the sake of argument. Let's face it, us Christians are a motley crew, coming from broken and dysfunctional environments and characters. It's not miraculous that an atheist, growing up in a more stable and loving situation, would appear more focused, patient and even charitable than many Christians. All types of people have overcome addictions, abuse, criminal records, broken homes, etc..
Just saying, that it's hard to determine the witness of a sanctified person outside of the miraculous, or, at least, a manifestation of something distinctly Christian eg: words of true wisdom, invincible self-discipline, lack of all anxiety, undaunted hope in the afterlife, constant and unwavering joy, ...

 

[marksman]

Its not what you know, its who you know, or more importantly in this case who knows you.

Exo_6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.


Exo_33:12 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


So does the Lord God know you by your name?

granted, one can claim God knows everything without being in error, but the devil knows that two. thing is Jesus says He doesn't know certain people who claim Him as Lord.

After being an astute observer of the church of various persuasions for many years now in my country, it is so true that it is a case of not what you know but who you know determines your fate in the church.

Although I am super qualified to illustrate a point not to boast, I have never once been asked by a church leader "what do you have to offer the church?"

I remember joining a company in senior management because they were in trouble and needed help to stay in business. My role was as National Sales Manager and from day one I set about reversing their fortunes.

The other senior management didn't say I had to be the warehouseman until I establish my credentials. I mean, who pays a National Sales Manager's salary to a warehouseman?

I have been attending churches and have behind me experience as a church leader, leader of two para-church ministries. written an operational manual for home groups (which the pastor asked me to do and claimed was his work) and senior management of a multi-million dollar company and the nearest I ever got to doing anything was sweeping the floor, making the tea, washing the dishes and putting the chairs away. Not that I was put out having to do that as I am the sort of person that lends a hand to anything. I am not a spectator. If I see a job needs doing I do it. I don't wait to be asked. In all the time I was attending, I never fulfilled my calling because I learned I was not ordained by the denomination or approved by the leadership.

On another occasion, I was appointed editor of the church newsletter which is something that I like doing. The pastor would provide an article for it and if he didn't he left me to write one. All went well until I wrote an article about prayer which he didn't like. Next week I was no longer church newsletter editor.

I am sure many of you have experienced the same thing. All you are expected to do is sit on the premises rather than stand on the promises. All depending on who you know.

 

[marks]

I would think that any secularist can do that, and they have. I mean, let's face it, some atheists live more righteous and disciplined lives than many Christians (I hope that I don't need to qualify this point). Even a Buddhist may experience more internal tranquility and serenity than many Christians, for the sake of argument. Let's face it, us Christians are a motley crew, coming from broken and dysfunctional environments and characters. It's not miraculous that an atheist, growing up in a more stable and loving situation, would appear more focused, patient and even charitable than many Christians. All types of people have overcome addictions, abuse, criminal records, broken homes, etc..
Just saying, that it's hard to determine the witness of a sanctified person outside of the miraculous, or, at least, a manifestation of something distinctly Christian eg: words of true wisdom, invincible self-discipline, lack of all anxiety, undaunted hope in the afterlife, constant and unwavering joy, ...

The fact is you cannot see into someone's heart, that's why we're not to judge.

So while you cannot know whether I am actually born again, I can know, as the Holy Spirit testifies inside me.

I suppose that comes back to, Who you know!

Much love!

 

[DNB]

The fact is you cannot see into someone's heart, that's why we're not to judge.

So while you cannot know whether I am actually born again, I can know, as the Holy Spirit testifies inside me.

I suppose that comes back to, Who you know!

Much love!

Yes, but the point was, how can we know about ourselves. I said, unless it's something exceptional coming from within oneself, one cannot tell, but must keep on striving towards the goal. You said, what about an inner testimony, I said, it's not always reliable as many struggles come with being a Christian, upsetting our demeanor and efforts.
Does the Holy Spirit testify inside of you, how?

 

[marks]

Yes, but the point was, how can we know about ourselves. I said, unless it's something exceptional coming from within oneself, one cannot tell, but must keep on striving towards the goal. You said, what about an inner testimony, I said, it's not always reliable as many struggles come with being a Christian, upsetting our demeanor and efforts.
Does the Holy Spirit testify inside of you, how?

Do you mean striving towards the goal of salvation?

How does an inner testimony relate to our demeanor? Our efforts for what? To do good works?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Does the Holy Spirit testify inside of you, how?

Trying to put this into words . . .

Romans 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

The Holy Spirit testifies to my spirit in my knowing that God is in fact my Father.

This will not satisfy those who look for works, but I don't use works as a gauge of my relationship with my Father. Granted my life is changed for knowing Him. But that's not what convinces me. Well, knowing myself as I do that goes a long way!

God's intrusions into my life have gone a long way in convincing me that He is my Father. My Faithful Creator!

I believe the truth of Jesus's words, that he who seeks finds.

Much love!

 

[DNB]

Do you mean striving towards the goal of salvation?

How does an inner testimony relate to our demeanor? Our efforts for what? To do good works?

Much love!

Yes, towards the goal of salvation, i.e. I don't believe in 'once saved, always saved'.

Meaning, our struggles as Christians (faith, persecution, idealism, ..) tend to discourage us, or frustrate our efforts in being good and testifying the Gospel to others. Whereas, non Christians, who may lead a more apathetic life, may appear on the surface less stressed, and more assured and confident.

 

[DNB]

Trying to put this into words . . .

Romans 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

The Holy Spirit testifies to my spirit in my knowing that God is in fact my Father.

This will not satisfy those who look for works, but I don't use works as a gauge of my relationship with my Father. Granted my life is changed for knowing Him. But that's not what convinces me. Well, knowing myself as I do that goes a long way!

God's intrusions into my life have gone a long way in convincing me that He is my Father. My Faithful Creator!

I believe the truth of Jesus's words, that he who seeks finds.

Much love!

ok, ...but, I'm not really convinced, because, as you said, you just regurgitated what Paul said without showing a real understanding of what the passage means, or how it relates to your life. Which, way too many Christians do the same.
I am aware of that passage, and all the similar passages stating of the invariable presence of the Spirit in every believer's life.
I have no idea what that means, to the point that I am convinced that it has never happened to me. My rationale tells me that Christ is Lord, and no major conversion took place when I first heard the Gospel, and believed. And plus, I have never met a Christian who I can say that their life exuded a relationship with the Holy Spirit, ...despite what they might claim.
The Bible shows us what is possible when one is empowered by the Holy Spirit i.e. thousands saved in one day, undeniable miracles, intrepid preaching, defiance against the authorities opposing the Word, profound wisdom and understanding, ...
When was the last time that you've seen that, or anything close?
This is my contention with the OP @DPMartin .

 

[marks]

The Bible shows us what is possible when one is empowered by the Holy Spirit i.e. thousands saved in one day, undeniable miracles, intrepid preaching, defiance against the authorities opposing the Word, profound wisdom and understanding, ...
When was the last time that you've seen that, or anything close?

These things have happened throughout history so far as I can tell, but not to the same degree as in the days in which God was testifying to His people Israel with signs and wonders, and testifying of His apostles.

 

[marks]

Meaning, our struggles as Christians (faith, persecution, idealism, ..) tend to discourage us, or frustrate our efforts in being good and testifying the Gospel to others.

I find the opposite to be true in my life, when you follow it through to the end. And as we learn that trials are good for us, we can welcome them into our lives knowing they will bring us into that which we most desire.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I have no idea what that means, to the point that I am convinced that it has never happened to me. My rationale tells me that Christ is Lord, and no major conversion took place when I first heard the Gospel, and believed. And plus, I have never met a Christian who I can say that their life exuded a relationship with the Holy Spirit, ...despite what they might claim.

It is in the times of testing and suffering when I receive the greatest assurances from God of His presence and work in my life. Those assurances have been so profound to me that they carry forward, and are added to by the ways God reveals Himself to me.

I was just now talking with my coworker, how God's movements in our lives are all anecdotal to ourselves. God works differently in each of us, and so what I describe about myself, is that what God will do with you? One thing is the same for all. Seek Him, and you will find Him.

The greater dependence I have on Him, and the greater confidence I have that He cares for me, the greater I see His work in me, and this assures my heart before Him.

Perhaps this is the inner demeanor you are speaking of. Without that assurance, we can be in turmoil.

The real assurance is in believing and receiving the justification that God gives.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

Its not what you know, its who you know, or more importantly in this case who knows you.

Exo_6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

kinda interesting, in this context i mean, that "Jehovah" is a name made up by the Masoretes, huh? An attempt to pronounce the unpronounceable, like if you tried to pronounce AEOU, our vowels, i guess
Exodus 6:3 Lexicon: and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.
which btw ignore the english there too, it is a bad translation also, as clicking the link will reveal i guess

 

[DNB]

I find the opposite to be true in my life, when you follow it through to the end. And as we learn that trials are good for us, we can welcome them into our lives knowing they will bring us into that which we most desire.

Much love!

Many of the Epistles are trying to encourage Christians to keep up the faith, despite the many and various, trials and tribulations that they are going through.

 

[DNB]

These things have happened throughout history so far as I can tell, but not to the same degree as in the days in which God was testifying to His people Israel with signs and wonders, and testifying of His apostles.

Yes, but the degree that you are talking about that has occurred throughout history, are not uncommon for man in general, atheist & theist alike. The mind is powerful, and life can be extremely uncanny and inexplicable. It's not always due to the immanency of God, or his direct intervention.

 

[DNB]

It is in the times of testing and suffering when I receive the greatest assurances from God of His presence and work in my life. Those assurances have been so profound to me that they carry forward, and are added to by the ways God reveals Himself to me.

I was just now talking with my coworker, how God's movements in our lives are all anecdotal to ourselves. God works differently in each of us, and so what I describe about myself, is that what God will do with you? One thing is the same for all. Seek Him, and you will find Him.

The greater dependence I have on Him, and the greater confidence I have that He cares for me, the greater I see His work in me, and this assures my heart before Him.

Perhaps this is the inner demeanor you are speaking of. Without that assurance, we can be in turmoil.

The real assurance is in believing and receiving the justification that God gives.

Much love!

We all have our convictions for personal reasons, and more often than not, they are too personal that they have no bearing on others. So, in regard to the OP question, I will not give a personal and subjective testimony in order to verify, either to myself or someone else, that I am a bona fide Christian. I feel that something more unequivocal would be required.
And thus, at this point in my life, I don't claim 100% assurance, even though I believe that i am currently on the right track.