I have just read two books, "The God Delusion" by Prof Richard Dawkins and "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris and they have shaken me and shocked me.. for the first time in my life the world makes sense, and the existence of God doesn't. These books very clearly and honestly talk about religion in general, the (non)existence of God, and a lot more. At the end of The God Delusion I have cried because felt that all the years spent believing were a waste of time.Yet the world appears now more beautiful, wonderful and surprising, in the light of my newly-found atheism. Has anyone else read these books? I men REALLY read them, with an open mind and an open heart? I dare you read them! Also, just one thing I have noticed here: newcomer posters are told by admin that this forum is not for debate... well, what's the point then? Not being open to debate means censorship of free thought and free speech. On the othert hand, I've been to a secular, non-religious message board where all debate is welcome by both atheists and religious people.
I've lost my faith
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Your in agood place here!!! You will get the gospel here which will re-inforce your faithYou can not isolate your self from the word and other believers. You will get some brilliant answers here. God bless you and welcome
Maybe by saying "No debating" they mean they don't want the nasty arguing that can occur in debates. People can get really mad and use heated language that's not appropriate for Christians. By calling it discussions, it keeps it to a more calm demeanor. I would like to say that there is no way I would take you up on your challenge to read the 2 books you read, because that is like taking fire and placing it upon my body. Scriptures warn us so many times to beware of false teachings which can lead us astray. We are not dealing with a bubble gum enemy in Satan. He is very fierce, cunning, and seeks to destroy you. Please don't lose your faith. God can restore you if you will seek Him. Please read the warning signs Jesus gave us and Paul too. (See Matthew Ch. 24:24, John 8:44-47, John 10, John 20:29, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-11, 2 Timothy 3, 2 Peter 2.) I'm only responding because I care- not because I have the answers, but I know the One who does
(His By Grace;28715)
Maybe by saying "No debating" they mean they don't want the nasty arguing that can occur in debates. People can get really mad and use heated language that's not appropriate for Christians. By calling it discussions, it keeps it to a more calm demeanor. I would like to say that there is no way I would take you up on your challenge to read the 2 books you read, because that is like taking fire and placing it upon my body. Scriptures warn us so many times to beware of false teachings which can lead us astray. We are not dealing with a bubble gum enemy in Satan. He is very fierce, cunning, and seeks to destroy you. Please don't lose your faith. God can restore you if you will seek Him. Please read the warning signs Jesus gave us and Paul too. (See Matthew Ch. 24:24, John 8:44-47, John 10, John 20:29, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-11, 2 Timothy 3, 2 Peter 2.) I'm only responding because I care- not because I have the answers, but I know the One who does
Agreed. I don't know if I believe the OP anyway. Is he just an atheist posing as a former believer maybe?
Maybe by saying "No debating" they mean they don't want the nasty arguing that can occur in debates. People can get really mad and use heated language that's not appropriate for Christians. By calling it discussions, it keeps it to a more calm demeanor. I would like to say that there is no way I would take you up on your challenge to read the 2 books you read, because that is like taking fire and placing it upon my body. Scriptures warn us so many times to beware of false teachings which can lead us astray. We are not dealing with a bubble gum enemy in Satan. He is very fierce, cunning, and seeks to destroy you. Please don't lose your faith. God can restore you if you will seek Him. Please read the warning signs Jesus gave us and Paul too. (See Matthew Ch. 24:24, John 8:44-47, John 10, John 20:29, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-11, 2 Timothy 3, 2 Peter 2.) I'm only responding because I care- not because I have the answers, but I know the One who does
Agreed. I don't know if I believe the OP anyway. Is he just an atheist posing as a former believer maybe?
tim_from_pa
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AS for the existence of God, I always love the story regarding the watch. An atheist asked a man with a nice pocket watch who made it? The man said that nobody made it. It just happened. The atheist stated that this was ridiculous. A watch does not just come into existence by itself. Somebody itelligent has to make it. The man then replied, "You believe the same thing when you think the universe just happened." The atheist was silenced. How can this universe, able to be explained by concepts, be formed from non-thinking chance?The fact that the universe can be explained mathematically shows there is a concept behind it. To understand math requires a BEING to conceive it. Otherwise, why not just mayhem?Now, as for Christianity, you may do better to adhere to the British-Israel position that I endorse, otherwise one runs into biblical contradictions and that will feed your doubt.Kriss and I on this forum believe this, as do a few others. But it requires a detailed study of the bible. I suspect that if you truly had a deep understanding of the bible, you would not be having these doubts. A basic and poorly understood faith is easy to shake by these psuedo (and close-minded) "intellectuals".
I Chalange you to, Try God and not religeon The Bible says, Taste and see that the Lord is good, I Guarantee that if you Ask Jesus, the living Lord to come into your heart, and mean it, He will. There is a differance between religion and regeneration, regeneration is being born again, Born again is when the Spirit of God comes into your heart, when that happens you can never deny God, Then you will know that God is true, and the book you have been reading are lies sent from the devil.If you don't do what I have said because you don't believe me or God You will know that God is real when you die, it will be to late for you then, Jesus will say to you, Depart from me, I never knew you, [Salvation is knowing Jesus personaly] Heaven or hell waits you, Please don't chose the wrong place.
Thanks for the sincerity and willingness to "help". Tim-From-Pa, NOBODY ever says that the universe that we see today "just happened", that is a gross misundestanding. There is overwhelming evidence (if you dare to research objectively, even a trip to a science-museum will do) that we got to where we are now by a very slow, gradual, simple process called evolution, which satisfactorily explains HOW we got here. I agree it doesn't explain WHY, but that's down to the individual to find a scope in their life. Kimshi, you think "I'm just an atheist posing as a former believer", well I am definitely an atheist now but was a believer until recently, until these books and some hard-thinking have given me answers that religion couldn't give me. But I remain open-minded and wll continue reading the Bible as well as secular publications, not feeling threatened by anything that could change my mind!
tim_from_pa
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(Sibotash;28745)
Thanks for the sincerity and willingness to "help". Tim-From-Pa, NOBODY ever says that the universe that we see today "just happened", that is a gross misundestanding. There is overwhelming evidence (if you dare to research objectively, even a trip to a science-museum will do) that we got to where we are now by a very slow, gradual, simple process called evolution, which satisfactorily explains HOW we got here. I agree it doesn't explain WHY, but that's down to the individual to find a scope in their life. Kimshi, you think "I'm just an atheist posing as a former believer", well I am definitely an atheist now but was a believer until recently, until these books and some hard-thinking have given me answers that religion couldn't give me. But I remain open-minded and wll continue reading the Bible as well as secular publications, not feeling threatened by anything that could change my mind!
But.... how does the universe evolve? Can it be explained? Then there is a CONCEPT behind it, and watches don't just evolve, either. That's my point.
Thanks for the sincerity and willingness to "help". Tim-From-Pa, NOBODY ever says that the universe that we see today "just happened", that is a gross misundestanding. There is overwhelming evidence (if you dare to research objectively, even a trip to a science-museum will do) that we got to where we are now by a very slow, gradual, simple process called evolution, which satisfactorily explains HOW we got here. I agree it doesn't explain WHY, but that's down to the individual to find a scope in their life. Kimshi, you think "I'm just an atheist posing as a former believer", well I am definitely an atheist now but was a believer until recently, until these books and some hard-thinking have given me answers that religion couldn't give me. But I remain open-minded and wll continue reading the Bible as well as secular publications, not feeling threatened by anything that could change my mind!
But.... how does the universe evolve? Can it be explained? Then there is a CONCEPT behind it, and watches don't just evolve, either. That's my point.
(Sibotash;28745)
Thanks for the sincerity and willingness to "help". Tim-From-Pa, NOBODY ever says that the universe that we see today "just happened", that is a gross misundestanding. There is overwhelming evidence (if you dare to research objectively, even a trip to a science-museum will do) that we got to where we are now by a very slow, gradual, simple process called evolution, which satisfactorily explains HOW we got here. I agree it doesn't explain WHY, but that's down to the individual to find a scope in their life. Kimshi, you think "I'm just an atheist posing as a former believer", well I am definitely an atheist now but was a believer until recently, until these books and some hard-thinking have given me answers that religion couldn't give me. But I remain open-minded and wll continue reading the Bible as well as secular publications, not feeling threatened by anything that could change my mind!
The world is beautiful?! Have you taken a good look lately? Satan is the god of this world and all the ugnliness, horror, pain, tragedy, and everything else black and negative in the world is from Satan. I'm not saying you are a Satan worshipper, but worshippers of Satan believe God is evil and the devil is good. They believe the world is heaven and heaven is hell. They got it all twisted and backwards. What I pick up from your post is that the real reason you are here is to try to cause believers to doubt their own faith. I don't believe you had faith to begin with to say you lost it. This is not my own fleshly anger speaking. I take what you posted in a very personal way, since in your own nice, subtle way you demean my God, my heavenly Father, who is all love and all good...and you demean my brother, Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son --- it is pure spiritual anger speaking. I thank God that I am temporarily in this world, and not "OF" it. 1 Corinthians 1:20, 21--- Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? (21) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.1 Corinthians 3:19 --- For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 2 Corinthians 2:4 --- In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. I pray that God removes the veil off of your eyes so that you might see the true light of the glorious gospel of Christ, which you will never find in any devilish, worldly secular books.The true beauty, splendor, grandeur and wonders of life can only be found in the new birth, God's eternal-life spirit in you...born again to live in the perfect Kingdom of God. God made it so simple because He so loved that He gave the perfect, His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ ....Romans 10:9 and 10.
Thanks for the sincerity and willingness to "help". Tim-From-Pa, NOBODY ever says that the universe that we see today "just happened", that is a gross misundestanding. There is overwhelming evidence (if you dare to research objectively, even a trip to a science-museum will do) that we got to where we are now by a very slow, gradual, simple process called evolution, which satisfactorily explains HOW we got here. I agree it doesn't explain WHY, but that's down to the individual to find a scope in their life. Kimshi, you think "I'm just an atheist posing as a former believer", well I am definitely an atheist now but was a believer until recently, until these books and some hard-thinking have given me answers that religion couldn't give me. But I remain open-minded and wll continue reading the Bible as well as secular publications, not feeling threatened by anything that could change my mind!
The world is beautiful?! Have you taken a good look lately? Satan is the god of this world and all the ugnliness, horror, pain, tragedy, and everything else black and negative in the world is from Satan. I'm not saying you are a Satan worshipper, but worshippers of Satan believe God is evil and the devil is good. They believe the world is heaven and heaven is hell. They got it all twisted and backwards. What I pick up from your post is that the real reason you are here is to try to cause believers to doubt their own faith. I don't believe you had faith to begin with to say you lost it. This is not my own fleshly anger speaking. I take what you posted in a very personal way, since in your own nice, subtle way you demean my God, my heavenly Father, who is all love and all good...and you demean my brother, Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son --- it is pure spiritual anger speaking. I thank God that I am temporarily in this world, and not "OF" it. 1 Corinthians 1:20, 21--- Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? (21) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.1 Corinthians 3:19 --- For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 2 Corinthians 2:4 --- In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. I pray that God removes the veil off of your eyes so that you might see the true light of the glorious gospel of Christ, which you will never find in any devilish, worldly secular books.The true beauty, splendor, grandeur and wonders of life can only be found in the new birth, God's eternal-life spirit in you...born again to live in the perfect Kingdom of God. God made it so simple because He so loved that He gave the perfect, His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ ....Romans 10:9 and 10.
Thanks for the sincerity and willingness to "help". Tim-From-Pa, NOBODY ever says that the universe that we see today "just happened", that is a gross misundestanding. There is overwhelming evidence (if you dare to research objectively, even a trip to a science-museum will do) that we got to where we are now by a very slow, gradual, simple process called evolution, which satisfactorily explains HOW we got here. I agree it doesn't explain WHY, but that's down to the individual to find a scope in their life. Kimshi, you think "I'm just an atheist posing as a former believer", well I am definitely an atheist now but was a believer until recently, until these books and some hard-thinking have given me answers that religion couldn't give me. But I remain open-minded and wll continue reading the Bible as well as secular publications, not feeling threatened by anything that could change my mind!
Well, that sounds quite amazing considering you've read an entire two books on the subject from people just as clueless as you seem to be about the issue. I'm a straight shooter as you have seen from our message, this forum is for debate about Christianity because, as you pointed out, there are plenty of other locations for that.Furthermore, I think true colors have shown quite well. You've decidedly chosen to list yourself as Christian yet you're telling us you don't believe in God after you read two books.Make up your mind please, or at the very least, don't lie about it. I await your answer.Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Well, that sounds quite amazing considering you've read an entire two books on the subject from people just as clueless as you seem to be about the issue. I'm a straight shooter as you have seen from our message, this forum is for debate about Christianity because, as you pointed out, there are plenty of other locations for that.Furthermore, I think true colors have shown quite well. You've decidedly chosen to list yourself as Christian yet you're telling us you don't believe in God after you read two books.Make up your mind please, or at the very least, don't lie about it. I await your answer.Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Seeds that fell upon Thorny Bushes, Lord Have Mercy in the Name and the Blood of Yeshua HaMashiach!
(Unorthodox Christian;28780)
Seeds that fell upon Thorny Bushes, Lord Have Mercy in the Name and the Blood of Yeshua HaMashiach!
AMEN!!!
Seeds that fell upon Thorny Bushes, Lord Have Mercy in the Name and the Blood of Yeshua HaMashiach!
AMEN!!!
Tim-from-Pa, yes of course it can and it is explained how the universe evolved, just browse on youtube and there's plenty of very informative clips that explain it. I have used it a lot lately as a source of info on stuff that until recently I was very ignorant of.Denver (Admin), you call those authors "clueless" on the subject of evolution? One is the most famous scientist in the world and the other is a well respercted journalist and correspondent. They also happen to know the scriptures inside out and not only the Bible but, as persons of HUGE knowledge and education and intelligent, they know the holy books of other faiths as well. I have listed myself here as a Christian as I was born into the faith and was a believer until recently. Sometimes things are that simple and sometimes all it takes is books like these to make you understand why the world didn''t quite make sense while I was in the faith. I am an atheist now, BUT, unlike most people here, if I had some form of proof of the existence of God then I would happily change my mind and admit I was wrong. But, there can't be any evidence to prove this. If you think it's impossible for only two books to make me lose faith, then read them.
heres evidence have you asked God to prove himself to it.and not as a joke, or a half hearted plea.but a full hearted cry from your heart.ask God to prove himself to you. because if your wrong about this, and God actually does exist.do you really want to tell him you quit on him because you read a book. No ask God to prove himself too you.when I lost my faith I prayed that exact prayer and he responded within 5 minutes.he said himself that he would leave 99 sheep just to get 1 lost sheep.give him a chance to get youhe said knock and the door should be opened unto you.knockhe said seek and you shall findseekI'll be praying for youyour brother in christRyan Fitz
(Sibotash;28818)
Tim-from-Pa, yes of course it can and it is explained how the universe evolved, just browse on youtube and there's plenty of very informative clips that explain it. I have used it a lot lately as a source of info on stuff that until recently I was very ignorant of.Denver (Admin), you call those authors "clueless" on the subject of evolution? One is the most famous scientist in the world and the other is a well respercted journalist and correspondent. They also happen to know the scriptures inside out and not only the Bible but, as persons of HUGE knowledge and education and intelligent, they know the holy books of other faiths as well. I have listed myself here as a Christian as I was born into the faith and was a believer until recently. Sometimes things are that simple and sometimes all it takes is books like these to make you understand why the world didn''t quite make sense while I was in the faith. I am an atheist now, BUT, unlike most people here, if I had some form of proof of the existence of God then I would happily change my mind and admit I was wrong. But, there can't be any evidence to prove this. If you think it's impossible for only two books to make me lose faith, then read them.
The bible tells us to walk by faith and not by sight. And this is very hard for most people, the bible also said that the path to heaven is like a narrow path and the road to hell is like a broad road. Because it is so hard to walk by faith instead of sight most people will unfortunately be lead down the road to hell because they aren't able to walk by faith, they have to see to believe. And that is the path you are currently on, and I pray for you my friend!! That your eyes will be opened so that you no longer have to see to believe (I know that sounds contradicting but you get my point)
Tim-from-Pa, yes of course it can and it is explained how the universe evolved, just browse on youtube and there's plenty of very informative clips that explain it. I have used it a lot lately as a source of info on stuff that until recently I was very ignorant of.Denver (Admin), you call those authors "clueless" on the subject of evolution? One is the most famous scientist in the world and the other is a well respercted journalist and correspondent. They also happen to know the scriptures inside out and not only the Bible but, as persons of HUGE knowledge and education and intelligent, they know the holy books of other faiths as well. I have listed myself here as a Christian as I was born into the faith and was a believer until recently. Sometimes things are that simple and sometimes all it takes is books like these to make you understand why the world didn''t quite make sense while I was in the faith. I am an atheist now, BUT, unlike most people here, if I had some form of proof of the existence of God then I would happily change my mind and admit I was wrong. But, there can't be any evidence to prove this. If you think it's impossible for only two books to make me lose faith, then read them.
The bible tells us to walk by faith and not by sight. And this is very hard for most people, the bible also said that the path to heaven is like a narrow path and the road to hell is like a broad road. Because it is so hard to walk by faith instead of sight most people will unfortunately be lead down the road to hell because they aren't able to walk by faith, they have to see to believe. And that is the path you are currently on, and I pray for you my friend!! That your eyes will be opened so that you no longer have to see to believe (I know that sounds contradicting but you get my point)
Thanks, Ltsgofishing, glad that what you asked for in your prayer came true but I can't help being a skeptic observer and I couldn't pray to someone whom didn't exist. For me it'd be like talking to myself, not a healthy thing to do! But by all means I do not undervalue the power of the mind, the so called "placebo effect". But I am touched by the well-meaning people here!
I don't know what to say.Just try. just give your God one last chance.isn't that why you made this post.Jesus said " when 2 o 3 people pray in my name I am with them"I'm praying can you pray with me.I'm begging you. pray with me that you can find your faith your brother in christRyan Fitz
I agree, just pray for proof of God's existance and I can almost promise you that he'll answer and show you that he exists in some way, but you have to be sincere about it!.
I will pray for you.
tim_from_pa
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(Sibotash;28833)
Thanks, Ltsgofishing, glad that what you asked for in your prayer came true but I can't help being a skeptic observer and I couldn't pray to someone whom didn't exist. For me it'd be like talking to myself, not a healthy thing to do! But by all means I do not undervalue the power of the mind, the so called "placebo effect". But I am touched by the well-meaning people here!
I think there are good atheist support forums you would be better off going to. I think your topic is a little out of place in a forum where people have faith for the same reason one would not go to a lady's cooking forum if they want to talk about mechanics.
Thanks, Ltsgofishing, glad that what you asked for in your prayer came true but I can't help being a skeptic observer and I couldn't pray to someone whom didn't exist. For me it'd be like talking to myself, not a healthy thing to do! But by all means I do not undervalue the power of the mind, the so called "placebo effect". But I am touched by the well-meaning people here!
I think there are good atheist support forums you would be better off going to. I think your topic is a little out of place in a forum where people have faith for the same reason one would not go to a lady's cooking forum if they want to talk about mechanics.
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