Jacob's hip!

[cedarhart]

What do you think the reason is for the angel to dislocate Jacob's hip? So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” The man asked him, “What is your name?” “Jacob,” he answered. Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.” Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.” But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.” The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel, and he was limping because of his hip. Genesis 32:24-31I'll play the devil's advocate. How much more proof did Jacob need to know the power of God after all the miracles that he had already been given? One being the fulfillment of God's prophesy that Jacob would lead over Esau. Another, after marrying Rachael, he was financially successful with the increase of his goat herd exceeding Laban's. He was already faithful to God. Why did God have to see that he was disfigured? What had he done to deserve that? Didn't God love him?Jacob's Hip is a story that has bothered me for many years. I have spent much time pondering this event and was very confused over it. Jacob was a man of God and had proven this over and over. So, what was the point of wrestling all night with an Angel of God? The explanations didn't really satisfy me and left me still wondering. Of course it tested his faith and then again, maybe not. He had been blessed already and had no reason to expect that to stop. Then, one night, I had an epiphany. LOL! Really.... It dawned on me that, although, Jacob was returning a wealthy man, so was Esau. Esau had been able to take over where Jacob literally ran off. Isaac died. Esau was left to head the family and the finances and trade. He had done very well and really didn't suffer not getting the Blessing. So, he is given word that Jacob is coming back and bringing all of his people, wealth, livestock, and goods. This must have been an awesome and overwhelming message for Esau, knowing that Jacob was given his father's blessing from God. So, I'm sure that he would get well prepared for Jacob's arrival as he didn't know what to expect. Jacob was sorrowful and wanting to make up with Esau but he too, didn't know what to expect. So both of them gather their forces up, prepared for the "what if". Jacob is told that Esau has arrived with a great force of men. It is my opinion, as I pictured this event, that the Angel wrestled all night with Jacob to weaken him and drain him of all his strength. For the Angel of God could have struck him down with one blow but instead kept him going. Then, at the very last, wham! The Angel dislocates Jacob's hip. So now picture Jacob hobbling with support to meet Esau. If you were Esau, would see Jacob as a fit opponent? No way. The man is there with his family and can barely stand. What is there to fight? Nothing. So, Esau seeing that his brother is no longer a problem, embraces him instead. If Jacob had approached Esau with boldness and success, it could have very easily gone the other way. God had plans for both brothers. Esau went on to establish Russia and Jacob the 12 Tribes. This has become one of my favorite stories as there is so much to learn from it.God always has a plan!Cedarhart

 

[Christina]

I had never thought about it that way. You could very well be right I have always looked for a deeper meaning to this but perhaps its just as you say.

 

[Jordan]

Ugh, this is a heart wrenching, soul wrenching thought... YUCK!

 

[cedarhart]

huh?!

 

[tim_from_pa]

My understanding as to what happened was simply that Jacob basically wanted to run the show himself. He believed God, but aquired the birthright promises and blessings by deceit and may have felt guilt over that even though he wanted them and believed he should have them. He was afraid of what his brother would do to him. Jacob was like many of us---- we believe God but want to do everything on our terms (God would have given him the birthright honestly had Jacob not connived Easu). A typical example of Jacob's attitude is found in Genesis 28:And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.Ye Gads. God just made that promise to him earlier in the chapter and Jacob had to spit this out to God! It's as if Jacob was saying, I have the promises Lord, but I want to take control of this and make sure it goes as planned.I take comfort when big bible characters have flesh and blood on them and act like many of us do.The wrestling with the angel bit was then God's way of causing Jacob to come to terms with God's way and depend on him because Jacob obviously had a lot of anxiety about meeting his brother---- so much so that he split his company into parts so that if one would get killed the others could escape. But God is serious when He makes promises, and no fleshly human is going to carry them out on their own terms. The wrestling with an angel left him limp as a reminder so that he'd have to lean on a staff (like leaning on Christ) in order to stand properly. This is why Hebrews 11 said that Jacob had faith as he blessed Ephraim and Manasseh leaning on his staff. (I seem to remember apocryphal stories about the origin of that staff, but that's another subject for another time).I have to chuckle, even with Jacob's attitude adjustment, he was still cranky and sarcastic at times such as the passage when he met with Pharaoh:And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil have the days of the years of my life been, and have not attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in the days of their pilgrimage.He was promised by God everything that makes the core foundation of the bible, both for Christians and Jews alike and yet he seems irritated in this passage. What a guy!

 

[kkboldt]

(cedarhart;64429)
What do you think the reason is for the angel to dislocate Jacob's hip? So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” The man asked him, “What is your name?” “Jacob,” he answered. Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.” Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.” But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.” The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel, and he was limping because of his hip. Genesis 32:24-31I'll play the devil's advocate. How much more proof did Jacob need to know the power of God after all the miracles that he had already been given? One being the fulfillment of God's prophesy that Jacob would lead over Esau. Another, after marrying Rachael, he was financially successful with the increase of his goat herd exceeding Laban's. He was already faithful to God. Why did God have to see that he was disfigured? What had he done to deserve that? Didn't God love him?Jacob's Hip is a story that has bothered me for many years. I have spent much time pondering this event and was very confused over it. Jacob was a man of God and had proven this over and over. So, what was the point of wrestling all night with an Angel of God? The explanations didn't really satisfy me and left me still wondering. Of course it tested his faith and then again, maybe not. He had been blessed already and had no reason to expect that to stop. Then, one night, I had an epiphany. LOL! Really.... It dawned on me that, although, Jacob was returning a wealthy man, so was Esau. Esau had been able to take over where Jacob literally ran off. Isaac died. Esau was left to head the family and the finances and trade. He had done very well and really didn't suffer not getting the Blessing. So, he is given word that Jacob is coming back and bringing all of his people, wealth, livestock, and goods. This must have been an awesome and overwhelming message for Esau, knowing that Jacob was given his father's blessing from God. So, I'm sure that he would get well prepared for Jacob's arrival as he didn't know what to expect. Jacob was sorrowful and wanting to make up with Esau but he too, didn't know what to expect. So both of them gather their forces up, prepared for the "what if". Jacob is told that Esau has arrived with a great force of men. It is my opinion, as I pictured this event, that the Angel wrestled all night with Jacob to weaken him and drain him of all his strength. For the Angel of God could have struck him down with one blow but instead kept him going. Then, at the very last, wham! The Angel dislocates Jacob's hip. So now picture Jacob hobbling with support to meet Esau. If you were Esau, would see Jacob as a fit opponent? No way. The man is there with his family and can barely stand. What is there to fight? Nothing. So, Esau seeing that his brother is no longer a problem, embraces him instead. If Jacob had approached Esau with boldness and success, it could have very easily gone the other way. God had plans for both brothers. Esau went on to establish Russia and Jacob the 12 Tribes. This has become one of my favorite stories as there is so much to learn from it.God always has a plan!Cedarhart
Hi Cedarhart,I think you may be missing some things in your post. Your post is good, however, you're missing something very important.First of all, it was "The Angel of the Lord" Jacob wrestled with. Jacob was wrestling with God himself! Right?How do we know the Angel of the Lord is God in manifested in human form?Because Moses spoke to the SAME "Angel of the Lord" in the form of a burning bush and we ALL know that it was GOD whom Moses spoke with.Exodus 3:2 "And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed."Moses spoke with GOD that day.The "Angel of the Lord" IS GOD manifested in human form. He also came to Abraham and Isaac this way.Remember what Jacob said, "Gen 32:30 "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE, and my life is preserved.Jacob saw God's manifestation "face to face."So then the question arises....Why would God spend all night wrestling with Jacob when he could have taken him out anytime?God was having fun and was trying to teach Jacob a lesson.Let's look why?What did Jacob say to God? And how did he say it?Gen 32:25-26 "And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.And he (God) said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he (Jacob) said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me."Jacob said to God, "I will not let you go until you bless me?" A little "pushy and "arrogant" of Jacob, don't you think? To keep wrestling to make God bless him?That's like saying to your own father, "give me my inheritance or I won't let you go!"So God puts Jacob's thigh out of joint. Why? Because even though God was having a little fun with Jacob, he wanted to show Jacob just WHO was BOSS, like your own father would.Yes, God wrestled with Jacob like a father and son wrestle with each other for fun. This says a lot about God, doesn't it?So, God blessed Jacob and changed his name to "Israel" (which means "prince of God"). But as a reminder that God is the one who is control, Jacob walked with limp the rest of his life for his "little attitude problem".God intended to bless Jacob all along. So why did God spend all this time to wrestle with Jacob? He wanted to have a little sparring fun with his "Prince" whom he planned to bless anyway and to teach Jacob a lesson in humility.Afterall, we ARE the "children of God" are we not? Does God not enjoy his people sometimes?Kim

 

[kkboldt]

(tim_from_pa;64589)
My understanding as to what happened was simply that Jacob basically wanted to run the show himself. He believed God, but aquired the birthright promises and blessings by deceit and may have felt guilt over that even though he wanted them and believed he should have them. He was afraid of what his brother would do to him. Jacob was like many of us---- we believe God but want to do everything on our terms (God would have given him the birthright honestly had Jacob not connived Easu). A typical example of Jacob's attitude is found in Genesis 28:And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.Ye Gads. God just made that promise to him earlier in the chapter and Jacob had to spit this out to God! It's as if Jacob was saying, I have the promises Lord, but I want to take control of this and make sure it goes as planned.I take comfort when big bible characters have flesh and blood on them and act like many of us do.The wrestling with the angel bit was then God's way of causing Jacob to come to terms with God's way and depend on him because Jacob obviously had a lot of anxiety about meeting his brother---- so much so that he split his company into parts so that if one would get killed the others could escape. But God is serious when He makes promises, and no fleshly human is going to carry them out on their own terms. The wrestling with an angel left him limp as a reminder so that he'd have to lean on a staff (like leaning on Christ) in order to stand properly. This is why Hebrews 11 said that Jacob had faith as he blessed Ephraim and Manasseh leaning on his staff. (I seem to remember apocryphal stories about the origin of that staff, but that's another subject for another time).I have to chuckle, even with Jacob's attitude adjustment, he was still cranky and sarcastic at times such as the passage when he met with Pharaoh:And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil have the days of the years of my life been, and have not attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in the days of their pilgrimage.He was promised by God everything that makes the core foundation of the bible, both for Christians and Jews alike and yet he seems irritated in this passage. What a guy!
Good post, Tim! You know how to read the "emotion" into the verses. It took me along time to realize the Bible is full of emotion and we have to learn to read those verses with that emotion or we won't really understand them. We have to put ourselves into the shoes of the people who experienced God.We also learn that God is full of "emotion", too. He laughs, becomes angry, cries, he's jealous, has fun, and HE IS our FATHER.Afterall, we were made in HIS "image", were we not?Kim

 

[tim_from_pa]

(kkboldt;64959)
Good post, Tim! You know how to read the "emotion" into the verses. It took me along time to realize the Bible is full of emotion and we have to learn to read those verses with that emotion or we won't really understand them. We have to put ourselves into the shoes of the people who experienced God.We also learn that God is full of "emotion", too. He laughs, becomes angry, cries, he's jealous, has fun, and HE IS our FATHER.Afterall, we were made in HIS "image", were we not?Kim
The thing is that the bible characters were people like us written for our examples, but when we read the bible, I think that most people see them as supermen. Even the miracles seem surreal as if in a fantasy movie. But think what it would be like if this stuff happened to us? Most people separate (unknowingly) the bible stories from their own reality.

 

[cedarhart]

Very interesting. However, Jacob was already blessed by God before he was born and by his father later. His life was prosperous. What if Jacob did not recognize that it was God? It is possible that he knew the "man" was supernatural but why would God state, "Let me go"? It doesn't make sense. And then for Jacob, being a God loving man, refused and wanted a deal? No one knowing that they were with God would ever do that. Again, God could have wacked him out at any time but didn't. He wore him down first and then wrecked his hip. Jacob was not looking forward to meeting with Esau but knew he needed to. If he had not approached Esau wounded, perhaps things may have went differently. No man has seen God and lived as Scripture states. So, I agree that this Angel of the Lord was in essence God's Spirit but must have been very limited in power for the purpose of debilitating Jacob only. It's hard to accept that Jacob having so many dealings with God already would have not revered Him. If he knew it was God's Spirit, I doubt that he would have wrestled with Him. I would not. So that knowledge may have not been completely known to Jacob and he wanted a blessing from God through this "man".God does not put up with arrogance and He loved Jacob enough to make Him father of the tribes and call him Israel. If Jacob was not going to meet Esau in the morning, there would have been no need for any wrestling. Jacob didn't really learn any lesson. He was made a cripple for another purpose as God did not want him and Esau to kill each other. God had a different purpose for each of them and it was vital that they were successful physically and mentally. Just another point of view.Cedarhart