Jesus and Commands

[bbyrd009]

We don't produce the fruits of the Spirit by doing them. We produce them only by walking in the Spirit.

ah, philosophy, ok.

21“My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.”
50"For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and brother."
35"Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister."

not that i don't also agree with you, ok, as far as that goes, but "walking in the spirit" too easily becomes "talking in the spirit," if no feet are getting dirty then no one is walking anywhere, in a sense anyway.

 

[101G]

you are still struggling with the rudiments of the law

no, I see you are.

then don't worry, you are not righteous yet

this just what I'm talking about, ignorance, ignorance of the Law, and of God's righteousness, what a world we live in. my God. Oh well... Rev 22:11

 

[bbyrd009]

no, I see you are.

ah, hopefully the common "you" was more apparent than that, at least i hope. I certainly did not mean you personally

 

[bbyrd009]

ignorance of the Law, and of God's righteousness

we all start out infants, ignorant of everything, so, i would not condemn the infants born today, or yesterday

 

[101G]

we all start out infants, ignorant of everything, so, i would not condemn the infants born today

but how long will one be a child in the word of God, 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things".

 

[bbyrd009]

but how long will one be a child in the word of God, 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things".

hmm, dunno, how much longer before you come to know that the Bible is not the Word?

which i guess i didn't mean the way it will be interpreted, the point i mean is "each in his own time," "do not find love until you are ready," etc.

as long as one needs, iow.

 

[Webers_Home]

-

Did Jesus give us any commands that we are to follow?

Yes.

If so, what are they?

Click the link below and I'll show you.

LINK

/

 

[KBCid]

I'm not "fishing".
I clearly stated my belief.
It is that Jesus left us with many commands.
When God says something it's not a suggestion...
I'm trying to understand why others don't see this.
What we do is done out of love...
THIS is the difference between the O.C. and the N.C.
The difference is not that the law has been abolished, but that we've been given a new way to keep it.

So far I see things exactly like you do. You could add that the O.C. sacrificial laws were fulfilled by Christ but all should understand that anyway

Not by being slaves and being "under the law",
but by being loving friends and wanting to keep the law.
Sometimes someone will say that we're under a different dispensation and we're not requiried to keep the law. This is incorrect. God is the same God He always was. He has not changed His mind.

Indeed if you love God more than anything else you will love his endearing quality of not changing.
If he didn't like murder and lies before then he certainly did not suddenly acquire a taste for them now.

He gave us the decalogue to show that we are sinners but He also gave it to teach the Israelites how to live since they had been in slavery for so long and forgotten how to live in a civil society.
Here are some teachings that Jesus gave.
If He teaches something, does it not become a command?
Are we not required to keep it?
Seek first the Kingdom of God. Put God first. Mathew 6:33
Forgive Mark 11:25
Deny yourself Mathew 16:24
Be pure Mathew 23:26
Bear good fruit Mathew 12:33
Be the salt Mark 9:50
Be baptized Mathew 3:13-15
Receive communion Luke 22:17-19
Take up your cross Luke 9:23
Pray always Luke 21:36
Let your light shine Mathew 5:16
so many more... and Keep my commandments John 14:15-17

I find no error in your rationale on the subjects covered. May the Lord continue to help you follow the path. You are the first I have found on this site to display the fruits of correct understanding on so many points.

 

[mjrhealth]

So far I see things exactly like you do. You could add that the O.C. sacrificial laws were fulfilled by Christ but all should understand that anyway



Indeed if you love God more than anything else you will love his endearing quality of not changing.
If he didn't like murder and lies before then he certainly did not suddenly acquire a taste for them now.



I find no error in your rationale on the subjects covered. May the Lord continue to help you follow the path. You are the first I have found on this site to display the fruits of correct understanding on so many points.

Do you understand what laws are for??? And do you know what happens when you break them??? And I assume you know that Jesus died the only one who kept the law perfectly,?? So i assume that you know by trying to keep them you condemn yourself, because simply put, you cant....

 

[Webers_Home]

-
The New Testament's epistles contain Jesus' commandments. I know that's
true because the apostle Paul said so.

● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

● 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

So then, the fastest and bestest way to find out what the Lord's
commandments are is to simply study the New Testament's epistles-- all of
the epistles; not just a few verses plucked out of them here and there to use
as proof texts in a debate. I'm not saying that plucking proof texts is wrong;
I'm only saying that approach is insufficient.

● Rom 12:2 . . Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but
be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test
and approve what God's will is-- His good, pleasing and perfect will.

It is impossible to renew one's mind without first putting some new
knowledge in one's head to think about.

Some years ago I became curious as to the number of Christ's
commandments that are located in the epistles and set about making a sort
of door-to-door search for them. Well; long story short, I managed to dig up
very nearly 500 specific items.

That doesn't make me an expert of course, but it sure puts me ahead of
John Q and Jane Doe rank and file pew warmer whose only real concern on
Sunday morning is to run out of church and go for pancakes at the nearest
IHOP.

● 1Cor 15:34 . .There are some who are ignorant of God-- I say this to your
shame.

/

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, the difference is, I believe, why you are doing it. And, is the motive of the flesh or Spirit?

Concerning (Gal. 5:19-21), I was responding to your questions of what are the deeds of the flesh. Indeed, we are not supposed to do them. But here again, just like we don't produce the fruit of the Spirit by doing the fruits of the Spirit, neither do we 'not' do the works of the flesh by just not doing them. We don't do the works of the flesh by walking in the Spirit also. (Gal. 5:16) "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh."

Yes I believe your happiness in making dinner for your family is a product of the Spirit. With us as believers, we have works of the flesh and fruit of the Spirit. Again, the question always comes down to which is the motivator. For example: I see an old woman trying to cross the street with some baggage and she definitely needs some help and no one seems to want to help her. I decide this is a chance to do a good deed, and it will look good in front of everyone. So I do it and am thanked for it. That is a work of the flesh. Or, I see the woman, and say in my heart, this poor woman needs some help, I am going to help her. So I do, and am thanked for it. That is a fruit of the Spirit.

I realize the example is a poor one, but my main point of it is that the same exact thing can be done, but one is a work of the Spirit, and one is a work of the flesh.

And, understand, I am not saying that I think you are walking in the flesh because of your view of law and works. I think you walk in the flesh and the Spirit as much as anyone here. For example I don't believe the Romanists view of being born-again is the same as the Protestants. But I firmly believe that many of them are born-again as they placed faith in Jesus Christ.

Consider this: Does God keep the Law?

Stranger

I agree with most of what you said.
The WHY is important. If I'm working to try to get saved, that won't get me saved.

Using the good example of the lady crossing the street, if I'm doing it because I know for sure that God would want me to and I'm a person with the spirit of God, then I'm helping her for the correct reason.

It's still go to help this person, no matter what the reason. But one will only be to help her and the other reason will be because I'm a member of the Kingdom of God.

What if I didn't help her?
What if I stopped making dinner for my family?
What if I didn't care to fulfill my responsibilites as a saved person?
Would God be patient with me forever?

We're members of the Kingdom of God here on earth.
As members we're called to be the hands and feet of God.
We're to do what God would want us to do. There's much we could do to make this world a better place.

If God wants us to do something, it's not a request, it's a command.
How do you explain Mathew 28:20?
Jesus tells the Apostles to go to all the nations and to teach them to observe all that Jesus commanded...Jesus uses the word commanded.

It's not a choice to obey.
We are obligated to obey.
One who loves will obey anyway, so why the argument?
Paul called himself a servant of God, for instance in
Titus 1:1
What made him be a servant if not the fact that he had things to do?

Ephesians 2:10 tells us that we are made for good works.
God made us for good.
Without knowing God's standard how could we know what is good?

Love covers a multitude of sins.
But that's because YOU know what sin is.
What if we stop preaching this?
It would soon be forgotten.
We know what sin is precisely because of the 10 commandments.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, the difference is, I believe, why you are doing it. And, is the motive of the flesh or Spirit?

Concerning (Gal. 5:19-21), I was responding to your questions of what are the deeds of the flesh. Indeed, we are not supposed to do them. But here again, just like we don't produce the fruit of the Spirit by doing the fruits of the Spirit, neither do we 'not' do the works of the flesh by just not doing them. We don't do the works of the flesh by walking in the Spirit also. (Gal. 5:16) "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh."

Yes I believe your happiness in making dinner for your family is a product of the Spirit. With us as believers, we have works of the flesh and fruit of the Spirit. Again, the question always comes down to which is the motivator. For example: I see an old woman trying to cross the street with some baggage and she definitely needs some help and no one seems to want to help her. I decide this is a chance to do a good deed, and it will look good in front of everyone. So I do it and am thanked for it. That is a work of the flesh. Or, I see the woman, and say in my heart, this poor woman needs some help, I am going to help her. So I do, and am thanked for it. That is a fruit of the Spirit.

I realize the example is a poor one, but my main point of it is that the same exact thing can be done, but one is a work of the Spirit, and one is a work of the flesh.

And, understand, I am not saying that I think you are walking in the flesh because of your view of law and works. I think you walk in the flesh and the Spirit as much as anyone here. For example I don't believe the Romanists view of being born-again is the same as the Protestants. But I firmly believe that many of them are born-again as they placed faith in Jesus Christ.

Consider this: Does God keep the Law?

Stranger

P.S.
I don't understand why you're asking about God keeping the law.
Jesus kept the law perfectly.
God created the law and IS the law.

 

[GodsGrace]

-
The New Testament's epistles contain Jesus' commandments. I know that's
true because the apostle Paul said so.

● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

● 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

So then, the fastest and bestest way to find out what the Lord's
commandments are is to simply study the New Testament's epistles-- all of
the epistles; not just a few verses plucked out of them here and there to use
as proof texts in a debate. I'm not saying that plucking proof texts is wrong;
I'm only saying that approach is insufficient.

● Rom 12:2 . . Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but
be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test
and approve what God's will is-- His good, pleasing and perfect will.

It is impossible to renew one's mind without first putting some new
knowledge in one's head to think about.

Some years ago I became curious as to the number of Christ's
commandments that are located in the epistles and set about making a sort
of door-to-door search for them. Well; long story short, I managed to dig up
very nearly 500 specific items.

That doesn't make me an expert of course, but it sure puts me ahead of
John Q and Jane Doe rank and file pew warmer whose only real concern on
Sunday morning is to run out of church and go for pancakes at the nearest
IHOP.

● 1Cor 15:34 . .There are some who are ignorant of God-- I say this to your
shame.

/

Jesus told the Apostles to teach others the commandments Jesus gave to the Apostles.

I fail to understand how this sentence could be read without asking...
What Commandments?

Some say that there are Jewish Cristians and gentile Christians and that gentile Christians are not under the law. As if there were different categories of Christians when we're clearly told that there is no jew or gentile, no male or female.
Galatians 3:19

I believe the Beatitudes in Mathew 5 are also commands.

Some posters believe God does not demand.
I find this manner of thinking to be incredible.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you understand what laws are for??? And do you know what happens when you break them??? And I assume you know that Jesus died the only one who kept the law perfectly,?? So i assume that you know by trying to keep them you condemn yourself, because simply put, you cant....

So what do we do?
Give up because the law cannot be kept?
Jesus said to be perfect as the father in heaven is perfect.

Do you think Jesus meant to literally be perfect?
How quickly you give up!

The New Covenant provides us with the POWER to keep the commandments to the best of our ability.

Just because we can't keep them perfectly is no reason to abandon them. The 10 commandments are also for us today.
Mathew 5:18

 

[GodsGrace]

No He does not, a command is not a demandbut for those who need to prove themselves I guess it needs to be that way.



No works are what men do because they seek approval, because they cannot accept teh fact that we are approved because of what Jesus did, and they love to boast, "look at me God look at what I did". and so they glorify themselves and not Jesus.

Frankly, I don't see anyone here boasting.
And if they are, they're not in keeping with Jesus' commands.

Mathew 6:1
Jesus says to be careful to to PRACTICE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS before men to be noticed by them, otherwise THAT will be our reward and we will have NONE with the Father in heaven.

Jesus said that we ARE to PRACTICE our righteousness.
He said that we are to do this quietly without boasting.
He did NOT say not to practice our righteousness...our right standing with God.

How do we practice our right standing with God??

 

[GodsGrace]

ego if you are still struggling with the rudiments of the law, and struggling with breaking commandments, then don't worry, you are not righteous yet, regardless of any professions, which i don't mean to denigrate or belittle either. Good intentions are not bad, until they become empty beliefs, as any child can witness.

I'm afraid the church has been won by these types:

2 Timothy 3:5-7

5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires,

7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GG, there is nothing wrong with the law, it man who try to use it. have you not read, Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one". he was speaking to people who had the LAW. understand GG, Galatians 3:24 & 25 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster". understand now? all the OT law keeper had to wait for the Lord Jesus, you can't make yourself right with God on your own merit. you need sinless blood to make the atonement. which none of us had, for we all was under SIN. Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God". if you try to keep the Law you'll come up short every time. Please read Galatians 3:24 & 25 again, it makes it so plain.

but if you prefer to try in keep the law, keep on reading after verse 9...... (smile). 1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, (got to put that one in red), for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine". (got to put that one also in red).

Peace in Christ Jesus.

We are justified by faith.
Fine. Agreed.
What about James?
The brother of Jesus said that faith without works is dead.

Do we want a dead faith or a faith that is alive?
Dead means we do nothing BUT have faith.
That's not enough.

We must do the work of God.
James 2:16 be warmed and filled. Yet we give nothing for the person to keep warm or to be filled.

We can't only wish and hope and pray, we must also do something.
James 2:18
James will show us his faith by his works.

Faith produces works. It produces good fruit.
It should not be a bad word...

 

[GodsGrace]

So far I see things exactly like you do. You could add that the O.C. sacrificial laws were fulfilled by Christ but all should understand that anyway



Indeed if you love God more than anything else you will love his endearing quality of not changing.
If he didn't like murder and lies before then he certainly did not suddenly acquire a taste for them now.



I find no error in your rationale on the subjects covered. May the Lord continue to help you follow the path. You are the first I have found on this site to display the fruits of correct understanding on so many points.

I do put a lot of blame on the church which is no longer teaching doctrine as has always been taught but is changing it to suit a society filled with persons who have a lot of ego, and are not willing to accept responsibility because it costs.

Same reason why divorce rates are so high.
And more...

As if God could change.

I wonder how many on these sites even realize that there was no concept as accepting Jesus to be saved as is prevalent today. This idea didn't even exist until recently.

I fear for where we're headed --- a washed-down Christianity no longer recognizable.

 

[101G]

We are justified by faith.
Fine. Agreed.
What about James?
The brother of Jesus said that faith without works is dead.

Do we want a dead faith or a faith that is alive?
Dead means we do nothing BUT have faith.
That's not enough.

We must do the work of God.
James 2:16 be warmed and filled. Yet we give nothing for the person to keep warm or to be filled.

We can't only wish and hope and pray, we must also do something.
James 2:18
James will show us his faith by his works.

Faith produces works. It produces good fruit.
It should not be a bad word...

@GG, first, let's get this works and faith thing straight first. #1. you don't work to get save. you work because you're saved. #2. your work is not what God saved you for anyway, listen, 2 Timothy 1:9 "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began". read that again, now to your second part,

We must do the work of God.
James 2:16 be warmed and filled. Yet we give nothing for the person to keep warm or to be filled.

ERROR, that's brotherly Love which is commanded. but the work of God is this. John 6:28 & 29 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent". that's the work of GOD, understand now?.

Peace in Christ Jesus

 

[bbyrd009]

as long as it is made clear that your works will be judged by God, and that "ye believe" in there is really saying "ye have faith," and "faith without works is dead."