Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[PinSeeker]

Because they are in cultic points of view...

They just understand significant parts of God's Word wrongly. I'll just say this, that knowledge ~ not just knowledge and wisdom are both gifts of the Holy Spirit, which all believers have, but not in the same proportion. Paul is very clear on this in Romans 12... and 1 Corinthians 12 (vv. 4-11):

"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, Who apportions to each one individually as He wills."

...God knows His own people.

Well, yes, of course. <smile>

I think the promises of God is that He will shows His people the truth and they will be corrected...

In this life, perfect wisdom and knowledge is not possible for any of us. We are being made like Jesus, for sure, but we will not actually be like Jesus until... <smile> But in this life... as the writer of Hebrews exhorts us, "since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God." (Hebrews 12:1-2)

...if they persist in errors in this life then the one to come.

Hmmmm... Two rhetorical questions for you here:

• Do you believe error-free-ness (so to speak)... or infallible-ness (again, so to speak) is possible for any of us in this life?
• Do you believe that in the life to come ~ when we are actually like Jesus and without sin ~ that we will still "persist in errors"...?

To both of these questions... to the first, sadly, and to the second, gloriously and triumphantly...

<smile>

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

 

[Scott Downey]

They just understand significant parts of God's Word wrongly. I'll just say this, that knowledge ~ not just knowledge and wisdom are both gifts of the Holy Spirit, which all believers have, but not in the same proportion. Paul is very clear on this in Romans 12... and 1 Corinthians 12 (vv. 4-11):

"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, Who apportions to each one individually as He wills."


Well, yes, of course. <smile>


In this life, perfect wisdom and knowledge is not possible for any of us. We are being made like Jesus, for sure, but we will not actually be like Jesus until... <smile> But in this life... as the writer of Hebrews exhorts us, "since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God." (Hebrews 12:1-2)


Hmmmm... Two rhetorical questions for you here:

• Do you believe error-free-ness (so to speak)... or infallible-ness (again, so to speak) is possible for any of us in this life?
• Do you believe that in the life to come ~ when we are actually like Jesus and without sin ~ that we will still "persist in errors"...?

To both of these questions... to the first, sadly, and to the second, gloriously and triumphantly...

<smile>

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

Obviously not error free, but there is this here, and it hinges upon Him teaching us, with the promise that He will do that for us.
And I think some people are resisting God too, not accepting His teaching, what He says.
God can use spiritual communication, situations, people, means to get His teaching into people.

.
1 John 2

Let Truth Abide in You​

24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to [f]deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you [g]will abide in Him.

The entire New Covenant relationship of knowing Him is based on the Spirit teaching us. we do not learn to believe in Christ any other way.

John 6
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, [h]“Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [i]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

AND

Hebrews 8

Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the [a]sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.

3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

A New Covenant​

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Scott Downey]

Hebrews 10

15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is [e]remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

 

[PinSeeker]

Obviously not error free....

Right.

...but there is this here, and it hinges upon Him teaching us, with the promise that He will do that for us.

We have His Word, which is all we need. Sure. All His promises have their yes and amen in Christ.

And I think some people are resisting God too, not accepting His teaching, what He says...

Depending on how you mean that, I agree. But in the sense in which you seem to be saying that, not so much. If we are truly regenerate of heart and therefore in Christ, then none of us wants to resist Him or not accept His teaching... quite the opposite, I would say. However, because of the sin in us, we all... all... unfortunately still are resisting ~ even though we don't mean to be ~ to some degree. One day that will be true no longer. But for now, thankfully, our ultimate salvation doesn't depend upon us knowing or being right about everything. <smile>

God can use spiritual communication, situations, people, means to get His teaching into people.

Sure. But I don't think His plans for individual Christians always include making people Biblical geniuses. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[WPM]

LOL....I clearly showed what was meant by Christ sitting on David's throne. He was resurrected to do so. It doesn't mean his resurrection was the kingdom. The fact is, the scripture clearly defines the borders of Davis kingdom and who would sit on the throne. It is amils that offer some convoluted metaphoric spin to deny that reality. Sorry....you fail.

There is no reason to reinterpret the plain wording of Scripture. It speaks for itself. It is crystal clear. The whole context here is expressly speaking about the One that would assume David’s throne. It is speaking about the only One that could gloriously take it. Christ was that man. He was of course the promised offspring of David (the fruit of his loins). None else would take such a final place of authority. Christ was indeed the fulfilment of the Davidic promise. He now reigns supreme.

Christ already came physically and revealed the kingdom of God to Israel. The problem was, it just wasn’t what they expected. The fact is the Messianic kingdom is here. Messiah has come. The kingdom is found everywhere Christ reigns in sovereign control. The kingdom is here on this earth now in the hearts of God’s people (the Israel of God).

Peace marks the kingdom today. You fail to address the many passages that show peace as an active ongoing reality for God’s people in this current age.

You deny Christ’s current kingship. You delay His control over His enemies in glory. You dilute His power and control. Christ did what He promised. At His resurrection, He entered heaven and assumed the eternal throne which He shall never vacate. This was His coronation. Ephesians 1:20-23 tells us that God hath “raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.”

He reigns over His enemies and He reigns over His kingdom.

 

[WPM]

This is no where in the text. It is not difficult to understand what the APOSLTES were thinking here. They were expecting the Messianic kingdom. Jesus put that on hold to evangelize the world first. He will return on the thousand day long "Day of the Lord" Establish the millennial kingdom, hand it up to the Father, who will create a new heaven an new earth. All within the thousand day long, Day of the Lord.

Where does Jesus promise here to restore nationhood (or a theocracy) to Israel? Nowhere! Again, you force your beliefs into the text.

Christ’s reply in this passage did not deny that the kingdom of God would be again manifested among natural Israelites, or that significant numbers of Israelites would at some late period in human history be reached, but that from henceforth all the nations of the world (not just Israel) would be the focus of God’s redeeming grace. The reason the disciples would have to wait was in order that they would receive power (or dunamis). This word dunamis is where we get our English word dynamite. The disciples needed to receive that power of the Holy Ghost which would embolden them to preach the Gospel and show them the global extent of the kingdom’s relevance.

Pentecost was the time when the kingdom of God was empowered to take the Gospel to Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth. The Gentiles were drawn into this great spiritual kingdom by this humble band of disciples faithfully and boldly preaching the Word (empowered by the Spirit). This couldn’t have been talking about some future millennial kingdom or the disciples would all still be alive.

 

[shepherdsword]

There is no reason to reinterpret the plain wording of Scripture. It speaks for itself. It is crystal clear. The whole context here is expressly speaking about the One that would assume David’s throne. It is speaking about the only One that could gloriously take it. Christ was that man. He was of course the promised offspring of David (the fruit of his loins). None else would take such a final place of authority. Christ was indeed the fulfilment of the Davidic promise. He now reigns supreme.

Christ already came physically and revealed the kingdom of God to Israel. The problem was, it just wasn’t what they expected. The fact is the Messianic kingdom is here. Messiah has come. The kingdom is found everywhere Christ reigns in sovereign control. The kingdom is here on this earth now in the hearts of God’s people (the Israel of God).

The text is clear:

Ac 2:30-31

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

This tells us why he was resurrected....to sit on David's throne in the millennial kingdom

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

What was David speaking of here? It is clear. He was saying Christ will be resurrected before corruption set in. Somehow...you have forced these verses to refer to the throne of David as the resurrection. An honest exegesis shows other wise

Peace marks the kingdom today. You fail to address the many passages that show peace as an active ongoing reality for God’s people in this current age.

You deny Christ’s current kingship. You delay His control over His enemies in glory. You dilute His power and control. Christ did what He promised. At His resurrection, He entered heaven and assumed the eternal throne which He shall never vacate. This was His coronation. Ephesians 1:20-23 tells us that God hath “raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.”

He reigns over His enemies and He reigns over His kingdom.

Christ is currently ruling with the Father in his throne. However, we do not see all things under him yet:

Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

This is also shown in Psalms:

Ps 110:1 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

How could it not be any clearer? Jesus will reign over the kingdoms of this earth at the 7th Trumpet

Rv 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Face it...scripture disputes your interpretation.

 

[Scott Downey]

In Acts 2:30, Peter is speaking to what the angel says to Mary about the Christ
The Christ will be RULE over Jacob-Israel.

The context is the resurrection, not an earthly throne, that Christ will rule over Israel, but not Israel according to the flesh, the rule is of Christ over Israel according to the Spirit. Christ will be raised up as in resurrected, to sit on HIS throne at the right hand of the Father.
He will not be left to rot in his grave.
David is according to the flesh an ancestor of Jesus. But He is much more than David was. David is dead and buried and his grave was with them. But the grave of Christ is an empty tomb as God raised Him from the dead, while leaving David in his tomb.

This here
32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David,

33 and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His Kingdom there shall be no end.”

shows that rulership reign is forever and His kingdom endless, it is of God and of heaven in the heavenly realms; where He reigns forever, today and forever and ever.


verse 30
Therefore, being a prophet and knowing that God had sworn an oath to him that from the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh He would raise up Christ to sit on his throne,

Christ's throne is His own throne at the right hand of God, not on the earth.
The angel tells Mary he will be given the throne of David to rule over Jacob, and Jacob got renamed Israel by God.
Peter emphasizes to the Jews the connection of David as their beloved ruler and Christ as also their ruler, that they both had and have authority and power over Jacob-Israel given to them by God the Father.

Peter is linking the prophecies of the past to the Christ, legitimizing his rule over them.

Acts 2
29 “Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.

30 Therefore, being a prophet and knowing that God had sworn an oath to him that from the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh He would raise up Christ to sit on his throne,

31 David, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of Christ that ‘His soul was not left in hell, neither did His flesh see corruption.’

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, of which we are all witnesses.

33 Therefore, being exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, He hath shed forth this which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens, but he himself saith, ‘The Lord said unto my Lord, “Sit Thou on My right hand

35 until I make Thy foes Thy footstool.”’

36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”


Luke 1

30 And the angel said unto her, “Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favor with God.

31 And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb and bring forth a Son, and shalt call His name Jesus.

32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David,

33 and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His Kingdom there shall be no end.”

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, “How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?”

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee. Therefore also that Holy Being who shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Genesis 32
More context of who Jacob is...and it is lovely story of God and man wrestling. This man was most likely the preincarnate Christ.

24 And Jacob was left alone, and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25 And when the man saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob’s thigh was out of joint as he wrestled with him.

26 And the man said, “Let me go, for the day breaketh.” And he said, “I will not let thee go, unless thou bless me.”

27 And he said unto him, “What is thy name?” And he said, “Jacob.”

28 And he said, “Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel; for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.”

29 And Jacob asked him, and said, “Tell me, I pray thee, thy name.” And he said, “Why is it that thou dost ask after my name?” And he blessed him there.

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel [that is, The face of God]: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”

 

[Davy]

Your futurized imaginary, temporal, carnal "throne".

If you know where it is, you can instantly legitimize and validate your premil and millennium by disclosing its location and producing it for confirmation.

But you don't know and you can't know. Because it's rather difficult to disclose and confirm something which is only imaginary.

Namely your "throne".

Your "throne".

A fantasy, a fallacy, a farce, and a fraud.

Go peddle it elsewhere to those as deceived as you.

Acts 2
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

According to the foregoing, at the resurrection of Christ, He was raised up to sit on whose throne?

At His resurrection, not in a futurized fantasy millennium.

Yeah, keep it up BLIND LEADER OF THE BLIND.

 

[Davy]

Yes, exactly whose Son is He?

Jesus asked this of the Jewish leaders and they naturally think David, Christ says no.

Jesus tells us where He will sit and it is not on an earthly throne of David

Matthew 22

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You are bearing FALSE WITNESS with the above Scott.

There is NOTHING in that Scripture that declares Christ's throne is in Heaven. That is a FALSE ASSUMPTION from the doctrines of men.

Try explaining Matthew 19:28, I dare ya!

Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
KJV

 

[WPM]

The text is clear:

Ac 2:30-31

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

This tells us why he was resurrected....to sit on David's throne in the millennial kingdom

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

What was David speaking of here? It is clear. He was saying Christ will be resurrected before corruption set in. Somehow...you have forced these verses to refer to the throne of David as the resurrection. An honest exegesis shows other wise



Christ is currently ruling with the Father in his throne. However, we do not see all things under him yet:

Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

This is also shown in Psalms:

Ps 110:1 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

How could it not be any clearer? Jesus will reign over the kingdoms of this earth at the 7th Trumpet

Rv 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Face it...scripture disputes your interpretation.

David was predicting the heavenly reign of Christ at the right hand of majesty on high in Ps 110:1 . That was 1000 years before Jesus actually come. So what is the issue? He would sit at the right hand until ... Hello? What is difficult about that. He is there now. He is reigning now. He is king of kings now. There is nothing that is not under his feet now.

 

[Davy]

No, neither in the sense that it was "moved," nor in the sense in which you think of David's throne.

You are wrong about that, which reveals you have not done your homework in The Old Testament prophets.

<chuckles> Like I have said, Davy, your understanding of "sitting on the throne" ~ and the throne itself ~ is far too... small.


Absolutely not; but I do reject your small-minded perception and understanding of it.

Grace and peace to you.

You just don't know it yet, but you're not actually mocking me. You are mocking Lord Jesus and His Word, and what He said below...

Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
KJV

Key points in what Jesus said above:
1. "in the regeneration" = the day of Jesus' future return, and the putting back together of the two sticks of Ezekiel 37 with the original inheritances of Israel restored in the holy land.
2. "when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory" = LINKED TO THE TIME OF THAT future "REGENERATION".
3. "shall sit upon twelve thrones" = Jesus promised His 12 Apostles they would sit upon 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. That means RESTORED 12 tribes of Israel. The ten lost tribes are still lost today, and have yet to be gathered back to the holy land. And there are NO JEWS sitting upon 12 thrones in the nation of Israel today.
4. All the above EVENTS are dependent upon CHRIST'S FUTURE 2ND COMING RETURN to this earth when He shall sit upon His throne of inheritance from David, and setup His Kingdom and reign with His elect over all nations.

 

[Scott Downey]

Hebrews 1 tells us of the Lord Jesus Christ, He is God, and His Throne is forever and ever.
And His kingdom is one of righteousness.

8 But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

An earthly throne of 1000 years in the place of David's throne is definitely not forever and ever.
It would have a beginning and an ending, and results in eventual failure at the end of the 1000 years what with Satan being released and deceiving the nations again, forming an attacking army of a number as great as the sands of the sea to come up against Christ and the saints in their city. Meaning the world has failed to have been converted and saved during the 1000 years of time having no resistance to the devil's schemes.

It would not have been a kingdom of righteousness forever and ever, but one of death and rebellion against Christ.
This premillennial POV is illogical and makes no sense scripturally in the kingdom of God.

Rev 20
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Hebrews 1​

​

​

​

God’s Supreme Revelation​

1 God, who [a]at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [b]worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had [c]by Himself [d]purged [e]our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The Son Exalted Above Angels​

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
7 And of the angels He says:
“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”


8 But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

 

[Davy]

Hebrews 1 tells us of the Lord Jesus Christ, He is God, and His Throne is forever and ever.
And His kingdom is one of righteousness.

8 But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

An earthly throne of 1000 years in the place of David's throne is definitely not forever and ever.
It would have a beginning and an ending, and results in eventual failure at the end of the 1000 years what with Satan being released and deceiving the nations again, forming an attacking army of a number as great as the sands of the sea to come up against Christ and the saints in their city. Meaning the world has failed to have been converted and saved during the 1000 years of time having no resistance to the devil's schemes.

It would not have been a kingdom of righteousness forever and ever, but one of death and rebellion against Christ.
This premillennial POV is illogical and makes no sense scripturally in the kingdom of God.

Rev 20
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Hebrews 1​

​

​

​

God’s Supreme Revelation​

1 God, who [a]at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [b]worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had [c]by Himself [d]purged [e]our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The Son Exalted Above Angels​

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
7 And of the angels He says:
“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”


8 But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

You still cannot account for what Jesus Himself said here...

Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
KJV

So you can rant and rave all day long trying to show that Lord Jesus is now sitting upon His Throne in Heaven, when Lord Jesus does NOT agree with you per the above verse!

 

[David in NJ]

@Scott Downey

Good Morning

Dwell on this =
When the LORD Returns, He is returning to FIGHT with His angels = Zech ch14 & 2 Thess ch1 & ch2 & Revelation ch19

Therefore, a literal 1,000 Year Reign will be Established by the LORD at His Second Coming

SHALOM

 

[PinSeeker]

You are wrong about that...

In your opinion, sure. And, my opinion is that you are wrong in your understanding of that passage. Fair enough.

Grace and peace to you.

... you're not actually mocking me.

Right; I'm not mocking anybody. Again, I'm only rejecting your perception and understanding of the Scripture passage(s) we were discussing, not you personally.

You are mocking Lord Jesus and His Word, and what He said below...

Absolutely not; I would never do such a thing. But again, you're welcome to your opinion, wrong as it may be.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[WPM]

@Scott Downey

Good Morning

Dwell on this =
When the LORD Returns, He is returning to FIGHT with His angels = Zech ch14 & 2 Thess ch1 & ch2 & Revelation ch19

Therefore, a literal 1,000 Year Reign will be Established by the LORD at His Second Coming

SHALOM

He is not coming as Savior the next time, He is coming as judge. It is the end. He's coming to destroy.

 

[Scott Downey]

@Scott Downey

Good Morning

Dwell on this =
When the LORD Returns, He is returning to FIGHT with His angels = Zech ch14 & 2 Thess ch1 & ch2 & Revelation ch19

Therefore, a literal 1,000 Year Reign will be Established by the LORD at His Second Coming

SHALOM

God does not fight for a world that He will simply burn up.
I do read a lot about Him destroying the wicked in a sudden destruction by burning fire-heat.
When He comes back is the judgment and wrath of God

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Luke 12:27-28
New King James Version
27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you, even Solomon in all his glory was not [a]arrayed like one of these. 28 If then God so clothes the grass, which today is in the field and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith?

Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

Matthew 22
1 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.” ’ 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them [a]spitefully, and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

John 15:6
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Hebrews 6:8
but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.


etc...
What the angels do when Christ returns, they gather up the wicked to cast them into the lake of fire.
I do not read about angels fighting on the Last Day of the World.


Searching for fight, I find not a single reference for God, Christ, or angels fighting in the New Testament-Covenant at the end when He returns.

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: fight

www.biblegateway.com

 

[David in NJ]

God does not fight for a world that He will simply burn up.
I do read a lot about Him destroying the wicked in a sudden destruction by burning fire-heat.
When He comes back is the judgment and wrath of God

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Luke 12:27-28
New King James Version
27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you, even Solomon in all his glory was not [a]arrayed like one of these. 28 If then God so clothes the grass, which today is in the field and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith?

Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

Matthew 22
1 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.” ’ 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them [a]spitefully, and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

John 15:6
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Hebrews 6:8
but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.


etc...
What the angels do when Christ returns, they gather up the wicked to cast them into the lake of fire.
I do not read about angels fighting on the Last Day of the World.


Searching for fight, I find not a single reference for God, Christ, or angels fighting in the New Testament-Covenant at the end when He returns.

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: fight

www.biblegateway.com

JESUS only burns up the AC and those who receive the MoB

The earth will not be burned up until after His Second Coming and after the 1,000 Years have been completed = Read Revelation

Apply scripture that correctly applies to the Truth being conveyed by God = Revelation 11:15-18

Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven:

“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ,
and He will reign forever and ever.”
16And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:
“We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because You have taken Your great power
and have begun to reign.
18The nations were enraged,
and Your wrath has come.
The time has come to judge the dead
and to reward Your servants the prophets,
as well as the saints and those who fear Your name,
both small and great—
and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

@Scott Downey, you often quote Jesus words to Pontius Pilate concerning "fighting and kingdoms"

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

When JESUS Returns, He comes to take back what belongs to Him = therefore HE and the holy angels will FIGHT and remove stana and his angels from the earth, just as it is CLEARLY spoken in Revelation chapter 11 and the OT Prophets

 

[Scott Downey]

JESUS only burns up the AC and those who receive the MoB

The earth will not be burned up until after His Second Coming and the 1,000 Years have been completed = Read Revelation

Regarding Zechariah 14, Christ and the apostles would have been very familiar with, yet no quotes from the prophet mentioned by any of them regarding future events. That tells me it is not for us to be concerned with, not relevant to the end, the Last Day. You also realize that type of thinking goes against the New Testament, what it teaches about the end.