What are your thoughts on this film and the Pentecostals who speak in tongues?Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in religion (which is different from simply "teaching them") or do you think that indoctrination is bad and that they should eventually make up their own minds about religion?
"Jesus Camp" and the Pentecostal Movement
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(adren@line;46096)
Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in religion (which is different from simply "teaching them") or do you think that indoctrination is bad and that they should eventually make up their own minds about religion?
What do you mean by indoctrinating, what is the difference? (Just trying to understand)
Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in religion (which is different from simply "teaching them") or do you think that indoctrination is bad and that they should eventually make up their own minds about religion?
What do you mean by indoctrinating, what is the difference? (Just trying to understand)
Is it unresonable to think that people should have a choice to follow? We have a "choice" to follow God or not (he's actually already made that decision for us, since he's totally sovereign) but indoctrination like this takes away that choice.
Indoctrination = brainwashing.Kind of like how Muslim terrorists are indoctrinated by Jihadi rhetoric.It implies leaving little if no room for rationality and opposing views or alternate explanations and relies on threats, fear, and promise in-order to keep the adherent in-line.
Quote:Originally Posted by adren@line View PostIt implies leaving little if no room for rationality and opposing views or alternate explanations and relies on threats, fear, and promise in-order to keep the adherent in-line.Well,Yea yea, whatever, You go ahead and think that bub. I always figured I was free. Where did you get the idea that Christians were brainwashed slaves?"36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." John 8:36The Christian body is an army. Its a fact. If we weren't an army, why do we have armor?"Be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armour of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled round your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."Eph 6:10-17However our fight is not with you (flesh and blood)."For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places." Eph 6:12Our struggle is against the devil and his minions -- who wish to destroy you.
what?This is in regards to a specific Pentecostal church as featured in the movie "Jesus Camp", not all Christians.
(adren@line;46195)
what?This is in regards to a specific Pentecostal church as featured in the movie "Jesus Camp", not all Christians.
I never saw it. The only info I know comes from the wikipedia page.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp_Documentary
what?This is in regards to a specific Pentecostal church as featured in the movie "Jesus Camp", not all Christians.
I never saw it. The only info I know comes from the wikipedia page.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp_Documentary
I never saw it either so can not commit on it specifically No one ever said there were not men who twist Gods Words and claim they are true but if we listen to God he has told this would come to pass. Thats what you get wrong you assume because men teach and say things we as christians listen to them.Simply because they say they are christiansYou assume we all believe anything a person does or says because they say its christian. We get there are many lying men claiming to be christians. Its just to bad you dont get that. we get it.Many of us have the same complaints about some teachings of men as you do we do not blindly follow them. If some do its their problem for not reading what God says about it.read Amos 8:11 below thats what God says.
tim_from_pa
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(adren@line;46096)
What are your thoughts on this film and the Pentecostals who speak in tongues?Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in religion (which is different from simply "teaching them") or do you think that indoctrination is bad and that they should eventually make up their own minds about religion?
Children should be trained by their parents, which in the film were the ones involved. While I may not agree with Pentecostal doctrine, they have a right. The bible teaches this, and it's American, after all. I'm secure enough on this to not let it bother me or meddle in their business.I think that people that get irritated at this are secretly jealous that their doctrine is not taught instead, for example evolution. The public schools cram things down the throats of kids, so what is the difference?Bottom line, its a battle of ideologies and everyone thinks they are right, like a 3-year-old that can't be told anything. But it's best to go with the bible.
What are your thoughts on this film and the Pentecostals who speak in tongues?Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in religion (which is different from simply "teaching them") or do you think that indoctrination is bad and that they should eventually make up their own minds about religion?
Children should be trained by their parents, which in the film were the ones involved. While I may not agree with Pentecostal doctrine, they have a right. The bible teaches this, and it's American, after all. I'm secure enough on this to not let it bother me or meddle in their business.I think that people that get irritated at this are secretly jealous that their doctrine is not taught instead, for example evolution. The public schools cram things down the throats of kids, so what is the difference?Bottom line, its a battle of ideologies and everyone thinks they are right, like a 3-year-old that can't be told anything. But it's best to go with the bible.
There is a difference between teaching science and history in a public school and indoctrinating children to become "soldiers". Is reading a history book on Napolean or a biology book about cells in public school the same thing as what went on in this Pentecostal camp?You do see the difference, dont you?
tim_from_pa
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(adren@line;46412)
There is a difference between teaching science and history in a public school and indoctrinating children to become "soldiers".
First, you simply said "Indoctrination", now you say "soldiers". Which is it now? Or is it both? My, my, what emotionally charged words to sway one's opinion. No, I don't see the difference as I'm not sure you see the difference in what I am saying.Is a military person "indoctrinated?" Oh, but that's OK to rid us of ugly terrorists and as long as they believe in the world's science that has nothing to do with the bible. Then that is no longer "indoctrination" I suppose. That is merely teaching.Bottom line, people that believe in the bible are indoctrinated, but people that do not are taught? Frankly, I think its the other way around, but I guess we are both entitled to our opinions.
There is a difference between teaching science and history in a public school and indoctrinating children to become "soldiers".
First, you simply said "Indoctrination", now you say "soldiers". Which is it now? Or is it both? My, my, what emotionally charged words to sway one's opinion. No, I don't see the difference as I'm not sure you see the difference in what I am saying.Is a military person "indoctrinated?" Oh, but that's OK to rid us of ugly terrorists and as long as they believe in the world's science that has nothing to do with the bible. Then that is no longer "indoctrination" I suppose. That is merely teaching.Bottom line, people that believe in the bible are indoctrinated, but people that do not are taught? Frankly, I think its the other way around, but I guess we are both entitled to our opinions.
(adren@line;46096)
What are your thoughts on this film and the Pentecostals who speak in tongues?Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in religion (which is different from simply "teaching them") or do you think that indoctrination is bad and that they should eventually make up their own minds about religion?
Parents have a right to teach their children whatever they want. It's up to the child to believe it. It's in their latter years where they start making decisions for themselves.As for brainwashing. What's your opinion on schools brainwashing children evolution? Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in Darwinism?Edit: Pentecostals are defiantly one of the most charismatic Christians. Not very many pentecostal churches can level up with that video. Most of them are pretty relaxed. I would actually say that the Jesus Camp church is charismatic not pentecostal. There is absolutely nothing wrong with praying in tongues, it's a gift of the holy spirit. Something you would not understand as an atheist.
What are your thoughts on this film and the Pentecostals who speak in tongues?Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in religion (which is different from simply "teaching them") or do you think that indoctrination is bad and that they should eventually make up their own minds about religion?
Parents have a right to teach their children whatever they want. It's up to the child to believe it. It's in their latter years where they start making decisions for themselves.As for brainwashing. What's your opinion on schools brainwashing children evolution? Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in Darwinism?Edit: Pentecostals are defiantly one of the most charismatic Christians. Not very many pentecostal churches can level up with that video. Most of them are pretty relaxed. I would actually say that the Jesus Camp church is charismatic not pentecostal. There is absolutely nothing wrong with praying in tongues, it's a gift of the holy spirit. Something you would not understand as an atheist.
I haven't finished watching the movie but I don't find much wrong with the film and the people in it. There were a few moments of dogmatic though that rubbed me the wrong way. I would rather have people who are excited about Christ than like that little girl said be a "dead church"
(tim_from_pa;46430)
First, you simply said "Indoctrination", now you say "soldiers". Which is it now? Or is it both? My, my, what emotionally charged words to sway one's opinion. No, I don't see the difference as I'm not sure you see the difference in what I am saying.Is a military person "indoctrinated?" Oh, but that's OK to rid us of ugly terrorists and as long as they believe in the world's science that has nothing to do with the bible. Then that is no longer "indoctrination" I suppose. That is merely teaching.Bottom line, people that believe in the bible are indoctrinated, but people that do not are taught? Frankly, I think its the other way around, but I guess we are both entitled to our opinions.
Did you see the movie?The head-lady refers to her students as soldiers and uses military themes to preach in her version of Christianity.Its almost like a Christian version of a militant-Islamic training camp, sans the weapons and bombs.
First, you simply said "Indoctrination", now you say "soldiers". Which is it now? Or is it both? My, my, what emotionally charged words to sway one's opinion. No, I don't see the difference as I'm not sure you see the difference in what I am saying.Is a military person "indoctrinated?" Oh, but that's OK to rid us of ugly terrorists and as long as they believe in the world's science that has nothing to do with the bible. Then that is no longer "indoctrination" I suppose. That is merely teaching.Bottom line, people that believe in the bible are indoctrinated, but people that do not are taught? Frankly, I think its the other way around, but I guess we are both entitled to our opinions.
Did you see the movie?The head-lady refers to her students as soldiers and uses military themes to preach in her version of Christianity.Its almost like a Christian version of a militant-Islamic training camp, sans the weapons and bombs.
Parents have a right to teach their children whatever they want. It's up to the child to believe it. It's in their latter years where they start making decisions for themselves.
I agree, and its not the schools job, so hence religion should stay 100% out of school and the government, but thats another argument.
As for brainwashing. What's your opinion on schools brainwashing children evolution? Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in Darwinism?
How about indoctrinating them with physics? geology? astronomy? How about those? There are plenty of theories in all of those disciplines. The only reason you attack evolution is because Christians have made a big deal about it, and no one else.How about string theory? Gravity?
Edit: Pentecostals are defiantly one of the most charismatic Christians. Not very many pentecostal churches can level up with that video. Most of them are pretty relaxed. I would actually say that the Jesus Camp church is charismatic not pentecostal. There is absolutely nothing wrong with praying in tongues, it's a gift of the holy spirit. Something you would not understand as an atheist.
Im not an atheist, and I will admit that speaking in tongues does look odd.
I agree, and its not the schools job, so hence religion should stay 100% out of school and the government, but thats another argument.
As for brainwashing. What's your opinion on schools brainwashing children evolution? Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in Darwinism?
How about indoctrinating them with physics? geology? astronomy? How about those? There are plenty of theories in all of those disciplines. The only reason you attack evolution is because Christians have made a big deal about it, and no one else.How about string theory? Gravity?
Edit: Pentecostals are defiantly one of the most charismatic Christians. Not very many pentecostal churches can level up with that video. Most of them are pretty relaxed. I would actually say that the Jesus Camp church is charismatic not pentecostal. There is absolutely nothing wrong with praying in tongues, it's a gift of the holy spirit. Something you would not understand as an atheist.
Im not an atheist, and I will admit that speaking in tongues does look odd.
(adren@line;47664)
Im not an atheist, and I will admit that speaking in tongues does look odd.
Why does it look odd? Like another poster said it's one of the gifts of the Holy spirit. Maybe you've grown accustom to the negative views in the media about speaking in tongues has received.
Im not an atheist, and I will admit that speaking in tongues does look odd.
Why does it look odd? Like another poster said it's one of the gifts of the Holy spirit. Maybe you've grown accustom to the negative views in the media about speaking in tongues has received.
(adren@line;47664)
Im not an atheist, and I will admit that speaking in tongues does look odd.
Most people today seem to have forgotten that the gift of tongues is (was, I believe) the ability to speak in another human language that the speaker had never studied. It's not the senseless babbling that most people today seem to think it is.Now I'm going to read the rest of the posts and find out what this thread is about
Im not an atheist, and I will admit that speaking in tongues does look odd.
Most people today seem to have forgotten that the gift of tongues is (was, I believe) the ability to speak in another human language that the speaker had never studied. It's not the senseless babbling that most people today seem to think it is.Now I'm going to read the rest of the posts and find out what this thread is about
Saw this movie about a year ago. I don't remember the specifics as to WHY, but I remember being very uncomfortable, even angry, with exactly what some people have been saying...the indoctrination. The type of behavior these children exhibit...often a really great thing....if genuine. How many of them do you think genuinely understand and embrace, to that extent, the teachings and values they state? It seems FAR more likely that MOST of them are simply parroting the adults around them, and doing and saying what gets the appropriate approval response from the adults.School system indoctrinates children as well, just not as visibly.Now I'm going to have to watch that movie again, so I can remember.For what I think about tongues in general, see my previous post. In my understanding of the Bible, the gift of tongues has ceased. Even if it wasn't, it's something far different from what people think it is these days.
(adren@line;46096)
What are your thoughts on this film and the Pentecostals who speak in tongues?Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in religion (which is different from simply "teaching them") or do you think that indoctrination is bad and that they should eventually make up their own minds about religion?
Quite honestly, I saw the movie Jesus Camp... it scared me a bit. That is only what I recall. I watch it once, and there were many things in it that my spirit disagreed with.That being said... I absolutely believe in teaching your children the truth. I believe it should be taught at all times.
What are your thoughts on this film and the Pentecostals who speak in tongues?Do you agree with indoctrinating children at a young age in religion (which is different from simply "teaching them") or do you think that indoctrination is bad and that they should eventually make up their own minds about religion?
Quite honestly, I saw the movie Jesus Camp... it scared me a bit. That is only what I recall. I watch it once, and there were many things in it that my spirit disagreed with.That being said... I absolutely believe in teaching your children the truth. I believe it should be taught at all times.
(medicalmatt;47681)
I don't remember the specifics as to WHY, but I remember being very uncomfortable, even angry, with exactly what some people have been saying...the indoctrination.
Same.
I don't remember the specifics as to WHY, but I remember being very uncomfortable, even angry, with exactly what some people have been saying...the indoctrination.
Same.
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