Jesus Christ Is The Only “…first Born From The Dead.”

[Xanderoc]

Really?

And what of the conversation Jesus had with Mary AFTER being in the grave for 3 days AND 3 nights? Let's read it....

John 20
[14] And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
[15] Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
[16] Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Now this is 3 days and 3 nights AFTER Jesus death and He tells her, "...for I am not yet ascended to my Father..."

Now according to YOUR claim both Jesus AND the thief went to heaven on the day that He died.

Please explain!

And concerning the rest of your post. I took my time and read ALL of it. And you have yet to answer the question about the White Throne judgement mentioned in Rev.20!

You did make the following statement;


But didn't answer the question. If, as you say, believers spirits go to heaven, what about the spirits of those saints, that according to you are in an 'unsaved' status?

Where do their spirits go until the White Throne judgement happens? Are they held in limbo until the sea gives up their dead and the books open and read?

Please explain!

It is not my intent to make anyone look stupid. I am only doing as instructed by the word of God!

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

"... make full proof of thy ministry."


I have done, through scriptures what Gods word says to do:

I have presented scriptures that states man is made up of (2) substances; The Dust of the earth. And the breath of God that brings that dust life!

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Gen.2:7

That same scripture mentioned above says that the TWO substances became a soul. It does NOT say a soul was put into man.


If you claim that man is made up of something other than these (2), then search the scriptures and post what you find.

I have presented scripture that states the same breath that was breathed into man is called 'spirit'.

All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; Job 27:3

I did not make this up! God's holy spirit inspired Job to say this, not me!

Taking what the God's word says above and applying to other scriptures makes sense. Let's take the following verses for example;

"And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost."
"And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God."
"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost"
"And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things"
"And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost."


Now from Jesus own mouth He tells us, "...for I am not yet ascended to my Father..."! So we know a ghost didn't go up to heaven on the day He died. So just what ghost/spirit did He give up?

Using God's holy word, it was His breath! The same breath that was used to bring life, if taken away, brings death! And what is His breath called? Spirit!

This works! This makes sense!

So if you think I am trying to belittle, it is not me you have a problem with....it is with the word of God!


.









.

Praise God! Everything you have quoted Ecc, I quoted of the scriptures earlier in this thread to Rach, and Anastacia. They refuse to see the truth! How is it, I said the exact same thing to them. And they say it's not scriptural! People reading this thread, pay close attention to what is being said here! Pray to the Lord, and the truth will be revealed. Believe in the scriptures, and not in fables of being judge immediately after death, and sent to heaven or hell! That is not scriptural, and is a spirit of error! Ecc continue to speak the truth! There are people who will see, and believe!

 

[Anastacia]

Praise God! Everything you have quoted Ecc, I quoted of the scriptures earlier in this thread to Rach, and Anastacia. They refuse to see the truth! How is it, I said the exact same thing to them. And they say it's not scriptural! People reading this thread, pay close attention to what is being said here! Pray to the Lord, and the truth will be revealed. Believe in the scriptures, and not in fables of being judge immediately after death, and sent to heaven or hell! That is not scriptural, and is a spirit of error! Ecc continue to speak the truth! There are people who will see, and believe!

xander, did you read all the scriptures I quoted in my last post? Why don't you study those more. Do you think you can twist them? They are hard ones to twist, but some people still manage.

 

[Rach1370]

Anastacia said:

"Some of us have spent so much time and care trying to explain to you the life of the spirit. I think you have been given more than enough time with this. You ignore many of the scriptures given to you, so you should just be ignored about this now. I feel for those whom you are throwing into confusion...the seeker of God, and the baby Christians who might not know the scriptures well."

I so totally agree. We are in a nasty cycle of "you haven't answered my question", "no you haven't answered my question". It's ridiculous and quite frankly I find you reasoning faulty and many of your 'questions' don't even make sense.
When it comes down to it, I have answered your questions, and I have backed those opinions with scripture. I suspect you egg us on this way on purpose, gleefully aware that this thread must grab attention by its very length. I have been replying only to help those you are 'throwing into confusion', as I know good and well that you have no interest in real discussion, or even what the Bible really says. You ignore scripture, the very context of the passages you are throwing around, and seek to bully others by you tactics. I have seen these tactics before...by simply refusing to address any one rationally you stir up confusion and frustration, and when tempers become frayed you take the moral high ground. I know your type, but I am unsure if you are truly missinformed or if you are in fact a wolf. Your friend xander, who agrees with everything you say, holds to the blasphemous idea that the trinity is 'pagan'. I don't know what you believe regarding all that, but your posts are full of confusing and erroneous doctrines.
Now I know I'm being harsh, but I don't believe that Christian = pushover. I stand up for Jesus and biblical truth, and I just don't see that what your pushing is truth. I pray that God will open your heart and mind, only He can bring forth the absolute truth. I also believe that 'soft words produce hard people, and hard words produce soft people'....so while I don't hate you at all; indeed I pray for you, I can see that the sort of conversation thus far is doing nothing.

2 Corinthians 5:8 -"Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away form the body and at home with the Lord"

That sounds fairly straight forward to me, I know the Bible does not lie. So believe what you choose to Ecc, but I know that when I die I will see Jesus! Everything else...all the details you're trying to muddy the waters with, well.....I leave that to God!!

 

[Anastacia]

Anastacia said:

"Some of us have spent so much time and care trying to explain to you the life of the spirit. I think you have been given more than enough time with this. You ignore many of the scriptures given to you, so you should just be ignored about this now. I feel for those whom you are throwing into confusion...the seeker of God, and the baby Christians who might not know the scriptures well."

I so totally agree. We are in a nasty cycle of "you haven't answered my question", "no you haven't answered my question". It's ridiculous and quite frankly I find you reasoning faulty and many of your 'questions' don't even make sense.
When it comes down to it, I have answered your questions, and I have backed those opinions with scripture. I suspect you egg us on this way on purpose, gleefully aware that this thread must grab attention by its very length. I have been replying only to help those you are 'throwing into confusion', as I know good and well that you have no interest in real discussion, or even what the Bible really says. You ignore scripture, the very context of the passages you are throwing around, and seek to bully others by you tactics. I have seen these tactics before...by simply refusing to address any one rationally you stir up confusion and frustration, and when tempers become frayed you take the moral high ground. I know your type, but I am unsure if you are truly missinformed or if you are in fact a wolf. Your friend xander, who agrees with everything you say, holds to the blasphemous idea that the trinity is 'pagan'. I don't know what you believe regarding all that, but your posts are full of confusing and erroneous doctrines.
Now I know I'm being harsh, but I don't believe that Christian = pushover. I stand up for Jesus and biblical truth, and I just don't see that what your pushing is truth. I pray that God will open your heart and mind, only He can bring forth the absolute truth. I also believe that 'soft words produce hard people, and hard words produce soft people'....so while I don't hate you at all; indeed I pray for you, I can see that the sort of conversation thus far is doing nothing.

2 Corinthians 5:8 -"Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away form the body and at home with the Lord"

That sounds fairly straight forward to me, I know the Bible does not lie. So believe what you choose to Ecc, but I know that when I die I will see Jesus! Everything else...all the details you're trying to muddy the waters with, well.....I leave that to God!!

Hi Rach, what you say where I highlighted in red, I think you are on to something. There could be people out there who want to act like Christians, yet all the while trying to throw people into confusion on purpose. So glad you spoke of that, it really helps.

 

[Xanderoc]

The trinity is a pagan belief. The triune god is as old as the Samaritan beliefs. The Egyptians believed in their triune gods, the Romans believed it also. After 70ad, Catholism absorbed pagan beliefs, with Roman Christianity. The trinity was part of those pagan beliefs. Look it up! I'm not make it up. Look it up for yourself! The triune god is a Catholic doctrine. Never taught by the original Jewish Christians.We can conclude without much difficulty that the concept of the Trinity did not come from Judaism. Nor did Jesus speak of a trinity. The message of Jesus was of the coming kingdom; it was a message of love and forgiveness. As for his relationship with the Father, Jesus said, ‘... I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me’,{# Joh 5:30} and in another place ‘my doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me’;{# Joh 7:16} and his words ‘my Father is greater than I’ {#Joh 14:28} leave no doubt as to their relationship. The word ‘trinity’ was not coined until Tertullian, more than 100 years after Christ’s death, and the key words (meaning substance)from the Nicene debate, homousis and ousis, are not biblical, but from Stoic thought. Nowhere in the Bible is the Trinity mentioned. According to Pelikan, ‘One of the most widely accepted conclusions of the 19th century history of dogma was the thesis that the dogma of the Trinity was not an explicit doctrine of the New Testament, still less of the Old Testament, but had evolved from New Testament times to the 4th century. (Historical Theology 134)

 

[Rach1370]

OK Xander, what DO you believe? Who is God? Who is Jesus? Who is the Holy Spirit?
Once again you completely dismiss all the bible verses that we have shown you on this. Sure, the word Trinity is not found in the bible, that doesn't mean the concept isn't there. The word 'protoevangelium' isn't found in the bible either, but it is the first gospel, given to us by God....through this He shows His wondeful intention to save humanity.

Also, all those claims about how 'pagan' societies had this belief that Christians pilfered is just stupid. Once again....at the beginning was God...and also the Spirit, and in John he tells us that at the beginning was the word, who was Jesus. So here we see all three persons of the trinity at the beginning. How do you suppose these other societies began this belief when we see the Trinity at the begining everything?

Once again, we've been all over this, so I find all your aguments moot.

 

[Anastacia]

The trinity is a pagan belief. The triune god is as old as the Samaritan beliefs. The Egyptians believed in their triune gods, the Romans believed it also. After 70ad, Catholism absorbed pagan beliefs, with Roman Christianity. The trinity was part of those pagan beliefs. Look it up! I'm not make it up. Look it up for yourself! The triune god is a Catholic doctrine. Never taught by the original Jewish Christians.We can conclude without much difficulty that the concept of the Trinity did not come from Judaism. Nor did Jesus speak of a trinity. The message of Jesus was of the coming kingdom; it was a message of love and forgiveness. As for his relationship with the Father, Jesus said, ‘... I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me’,{# Joh 5:30} and in another place ‘my doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me’;{# Joh 7:16} and his words ‘my Father is greater than I’ {#Joh 14:28} leave no doubt as to their relationship. The word ‘trinity’ was not coined until Tertullian, more than 100 years after Christ’s death, and the key words (meaning substance)from the Nicene debate, homousis and ousis, are not biblical, but from Stoic thought. Nowhere in the Bible is the Trinity mentioned. According to Pelikan, ‘One of the most widely accepted conclusions of the 19th century history of dogma was the thesis that the dogma of the Trinity was not an explicit doctrine of the New Testament, still less of the Old Testament, but had evolved from New Testament times to the 4th century. (Historical Theology 134)

I don't use the word "trinity" because it isn't in the Bible and people like you who only like to argue that point.

Jesus is the visible of the invisible God.

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God


The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and Jesus.

John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.


xander, so how many spirits have made their home in you?!

 

[Eccl.12:13]

I see we are getting just a tad off track....but that sometimes happens.

So back to the subject and to the replys Rach made and the questions that followed, which he did not get the chance to reply to;

Rach, you stated the following;

When believers die, we go, in spirit, to be with Jesus - we know this because this is what Jesus told the thief begging for forgiveness on the cross...Jesus does not lie, so when He said "today you will be with me in paradise", we know he meant today....

To which I asked;

"And what of the conversation Jesus had with Mary AFTER being in the grave for 3 days AND 3 nights? Let's read it....

John 20
[14] And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
[15] Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
[16] Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Now this is 3 days and 3 nights AFTER Jesus death and He tells her, "...for I am not yet ascended to my Father..."

Now according to YOUR claim both Jesus AND the thief went to heaven on the day that He died.

Now we know flesh and blood cannot worship God, in His presence in heaven, only a spirit being!

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" 1 Cor.15:50

So if a flesh and blood being CANNOT go to heaven, AND Jesus said He had not gone, what, according to your belief, did go to heaven?

Please explain to the readers!


Next....after asking about the White Throne judgement you replied;

Unrepentant people upon death will experiance eternal regret and torment...Jesus Himself talked of hell more than anyone else in the Bible. It is real, and the spirits of unsaved people will go there.

But you still didn't answer the question, which was;

"If a man's 'spirit' is placed either in heaven or hell as soon as they die, at what point does the White Throne judgement, spoken of in Rev. take place?"

If, as you say, believers spirits go to heaven, then what about the spirits of those saints, that according to you, are in an 'unsaved' status?

Where do their spirits go until the White Throne judgement happens? Are they held in limbo until the sea gives up their dead and the books open and read?

Please explain!



.

 

[Anastacia]

My replies to Ecc.12:13 in blue.

I see we are getting just a tad off track....but that sometimes happens.

Why say it then? Stop with the exalting yourself.



So back to the subject and to the replys Rach made and the questions that followed, which he did not get the chance to reply to;

Rach, you stated the following;



To which I asked;

"And what of the conversation Jesus had with Mary AFTER being in the grave for 3 days AND 3 nights? Let's read it....

John 20
[14] And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
[15] Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
[16] Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Now this is 3 days and 3 nights AFTER Jesus death and He tells her, "...for I am not yet ascended to my Father..."

Jesus had not yet ascended to the Father in his body.

Now according to YOUR claim both Jesus AND the thief went to heaven on the day that He died.

Now we know flesh and blood cannot worship God, in His presence in heaven, only a spirit being!

You say "only a spirit being," so does that mean you now acknowledge the spirt of people don't die?

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" 1 Cor.15:50

We keep telling you that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Why do you keep saying this as some kind of proof that we don't have spirits?

So if a flesh and blood being CANNOT go to heaven, AND Jesus said He had not gone, what, according to your belief, did go to heaven?


Flesh and blood can't go to heaven! Read the scripture about where Jesus' Spirit went.


Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.


Jesus' Spirit was in the hands of God. So how again do you prove that the thief did not go to Abraham's bosoom in the spirit?



Please explain to the readers!


Next....after asking about the White Throne judgement you replied;




But you still didn't answer the question, which was;

"If a man's 'spirit' is placed either in heaven or hell as soon as they die, at what point does the White Throne judgement, spoken of in Rev. take place?"

If, as you say, believers spirits go to heaven, then what about the spirits of those saints, that according to you, are in an 'unsaved' status?

Where do their spirits go until the White Throne judgement happens? Are they held in limbo until the sea gives up their dead and the books open and read?

Please explain!

 

[Rach1370]

Ecc and Xander.....see above.....

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Quick and easy:

So how again do you prove that the thief did not go to Abraham's bosoom in the spirit?

The story of Abraham is a parable! Jesus ONLY spoke in parables when speaking to those other than his disciples

In order for that story to have been real there had to be a real place called Hell! Hell did not exist then! And Hell does not exist NOW!

But......it WILL!!!

Now...getting back to your reasoning. You said;

Jesus had not yet ascended to the Father in his body.

So just how does this work?

The raised body can was left here on earth, while a 'spirit' body went to be accepted by God? So when Jesus said He had not gone he was refering to His physical body?

Why would it matter if Mary touched His physical body?

And did this 'spirit' body return again to the physical? Why even have a physical body if you have a 'spirit' body?

The problem most have is thinking that a 'spirit' body does NOT have substance or is made up of nothing! Most believe that a spirit ia just a puff of smoke, something that is transparent and just floats here and there!

Now.....let's use the term that is used in God's holy word;

"All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;"

Using spirit as it is used in the bible we find that the same breath that Jesus needed to live was the same breath (spirit as Job called it) that was given up and returned to God. Let's read it again with logic from the scriptures;

"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

And what was the 'spirit' Jesus commended, the breath of life!

And what happed next?

He was dead and in the ground for 3 days and 3 nights!
After 3 day and nights a physical body was raised from the dead!
Sometime between the time that Mary saw Him and the time He appeared to His disciples, He was changed into a 'spirit being' and accepted by the Father!

This makes sense!

Now....getting back to the White Throne judgement.......


"If a man's 'spirit' is placed either in heaven or hell as soon as they die, at what point does the White Throne judgement, spoken of in Rev. take place?"

If, as you say, believers spirits go to heaven, then what about the spirits of those saints, that according to you, are in an 'unsaved' status?

Where do their spirits go until the White Throne judgement happens? Are they held in limbo until the sea gives up their dead and the books open and read?

Please explain!



.










.

 

[Anastacia]

My replies to Ecc.12:13


Quick and easy:


The story of Abraham is a parable! Jesus ONLY spoke in parables when speaking to those other than his disciples

Jesus did not only speak in parables. AND parables aren't far fetched stories with no basis in reality. Quite the contrary.

In order for that story to have been real there had to be a real place called Hell! Hell did not exist then! And Hell does not exist NOW!

But......it WILL!!!

The rich man and Lazarus were about two people in the spirit---without a body. After the resurrection and the great white throne judgement...people will be thrown in the lake of fire with their spirit and resurrected body.

Now...getting back to your reasoning. You said;

So just how does this work?

The raised body can was left here on earth, while a 'spirit' body went to be accepted by God? So when Jesus said He had not gone he was refering to His physical body?
You have to explain better what you mean.

Why would it matter if Mary touched His physical body?

Jesus says why---because he hadn't returned to the Father yet. What does your religion teach about that? Could it be so different than mine?

And did this 'spirit' body return again to the physical? Why even have a physical body if you have a 'spirit' body?

Because everything is put under Jesus. Because of Satan, we die. We will have redemption of our bodies. Why would God just let that part go?

The problem most have is thinking that a 'spirit' body does NOT have substance or is made up of nothing! Most believe that a spirit ia just a puff of smoke, something that is transparent and just floats here and there!

Now.....let's use the term that is used in God's holy word;

"All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;"

You probably have a hard time with this scripture too? "But it is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding."


Using spirit as it is used in the bible we find that the same breath that Jesus needed to live was the same breath (spirit as Job called it) that was given up and returned to God. Let's read it again with logic from the scriptures;

I know, you rely heavily on your misunderstanding of the Old Testament scriptures. A lot was revealed in the New Testament.



"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

And what was the 'spirit' Jesus commended, the breath of life!

You still never answered why Paul wondered if he was in his body or out of his body. See 2 Corinthians 12:3

And what happed next?

He was dead and in the ground for 3 days and 3 nights!
After 3 day and nights a physical body was raised from the dead!
Sometime between the time that Mary saw Him and the time He appeared to His disciples, He was changed into a 'spirit being' and accepted by the Father!
Are you making fun of the scriptures...of God's Word?
1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. [sup]19[/sup] After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—


This makes sense!

Now....getting back to the White Throne judgement.......


"If a man's 'spirit' is placed either in heaven or hell as soon as they die, at what point does the White Throne judgement, spoken of in Rev. take place?"

The great white throne judgement will be after the resurrection. People will be thrown in the lake of fire....with their resurrected body.

If, as you say, believers spirits go to heaven, then what about the spirits of those saints, that according to you, are in an 'unsaved' status?

What saints are in unsaved status?

Where do their spirits go until the White Throne judgement happens? Are they held in limbo until the sea gives up their dead and the books open and read?


Please explain!

.

 

[Xanderoc]

OK Xander, what DO you believe? Who is God? Who is Jesus? Who is the Holy Spirit?
Once again you completely dismiss all the bible verses that we have shown you on this. Sure, the word Trinity is not found in the bible, that doesn't mean the concept isn't there. The word 'protoevangelium' isn't found in the bible either, but it is the first gospel, given to us by God....through this He shows His wondeful intention to save humanity.

Also, all those claims about how 'pagan' societies had this belief that Christians pilfered is just stupid. Once again....at the beginning was God...and also the Spirit, and in John he tells us that at the beginning was the word, who was Jesus. So here we see all three persons of the trinity at the beginning. How do you suppose these other societies began this belief when we see the Trinity at the begining everything?

Once again, we've been all over this, so I find all your aguments moot.

Rach I already explained to you clearly, The Father is God, Jesus is God. And I already broke down the different meanings of the word spirit in the bible. If the spirit is from God it is holy. God's holy angels (or ministering spirits are holy), or (holy spirit). God's word is spirit, and holy, or (holy spirit). The trinity says, 3 persons in one. That is a pagan ideal. You ask what I believe. I'll tell you. I believe in the bible, and only in the bible. God's word say's remember the 7th day sabbath. Satan say's Sunday is the Lord's day. God's word says to keep his feast days. Satan gives you Christmas (winter solstice) Easter( goddess of fertility) Halloween (Hallows Eve). All these pagan beliefs were mingled into Christianity during the 4th century. Perfect example:
Jeremiah 10:[sup]1[/sup]Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: [sup]2[/sup]Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

[sup]3[/sup]For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

[sup]4[/sup]They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

[sup]5[/sup]They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.


I ask you Rach, what pagan holiday cuts a tree from a forest, and decks it with silver, and gold. That is Christmas, before it was considered Christmas. That pagan festival existed even before there were any Christians. You can say anything you want about me, but I follow the word of God. You can say on Dec 25, which is considered the birth of the unconquered sun, that you don't look at it that way. But God says we need to come out of the world, and stay away from paganism. Haven't it ever dawned on you that the world celebrates that pagan holiday! Catholicism has influenced most of the worlds beliefs. But you fail to realize is most of the beliefs of Catholicism is paganism. You, and I don't believe in the same Jesus. I believe in Jesus, the king of Israel. The savior of this world. The Law giver! The one who commands us to stay away from paganism, and come out of this world. You believe the Jesus that came after the 4th century!

I don't use the word "trinity" because it isn't in the Bible and people like you who only like to argue that point.

Jesus is the visible of the invisible God.

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God


The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and Jesus.

John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.


xander, so how many spirits have made their home in you?!

Anastacia, I have the word of God in me! God's holy word, or his holy spirit, is what fills me!

 

[Xanderoc]

I don't use the word "trinity" because it isn't in the Bible and people like you who only like to argue that point.

Jesus is the visible of the invisible God.

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God


The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and Jesus.

John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.


xander, so how many spirits have made their home in you?!

Anastacia, I have the word of God in me! God's holy word, or his holy spirit, is what fills me!

 

[Rach1370]

Xander, once again you miss so many of the wonderful things that Jesus gave to us by His sacrifice. One of these things is freedom!!

But I have gone over ALL this before....again, and again and then some more. I realise that trying to convince you of anything is futile and a lesson in frustration. You say you believe in the Bible, but then go on to label the Trinity a pagan notion. You ignore all the verses people have shown you...especially the ones that show the Trinity out date pagan religions....a bit of a no brainer if you ask me...no wonder you choose to 'ignore' it.
You claim you do not belong to any of the 'Christian cults', but consider then, you do share one of their basic beliefs. Lets see huh?
Unitarians: Unitarians reject the doctrine of the Trinity

The World Wide Church of God: Armstrong (the founder) believed that Christians should celebrate Sabbath on Saturday–not Sunday, that God was a family–Father and Son–not a Trinity, He taught that the Holy Spirit was an impersonal force, Armstrong taught salvation by grace through faith in Jesus, but also stressed obedience to keeping the Sabbath holy. Armstrong prohibited observing Christmas, Easter and birthdays. This focus on rules eliminated grace from sermons. Members became legalistic and snubbed other Christians.

Jehovah's Witnesses: Since his body decomposed, Jesus rose from the dead as a spirit. Not a body. Jehovah’s Witnesses declare Trinitarianism as a demonic doctrine. Pastors who teach the doctrine are antichrists in Satan’s church, and in fact The Trinity pre-dates Christianity.

Mormonism: The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation." (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206)


Do any of these ideas sound familiar?? You claim not to belong to any cults, but your beliefs sit comfortably beside theirs. I truly hope this makes you wonder, makes you pray, makes you see how erroneous your doctrines are. And consider this also...all the above cults were founded by and circle around a man. A sinful man who then makes so many rules for his followers to harp on and to focus on. True Christianity...it is always about Jesus, and such ridiculous matters like 'only worship on Sunday' or 'Christmas is evil' is only distraction from Jesus. I am not a Jew, and Jesus has given me the freedom to worship Him any day I choose...and I choose every day.

http://www.fallenandflawed.com/thoroughly-painless-guide-doctrine-trinity/

 

[Anastacia]

Anastacia, I have the word of God in me! God's holy word, or his holy spirit, is what fills me!

You said you don't believe in the Trinity. From what you said earlier, you don't believe in using the word "Trinity," nor do you believe in the description. So how do you explain your beliefs?

 

[Xanderoc]

Xander, once again you miss so many of the wonderful things that Jesus gave to us by His sacrifice. One of these things is freedom!!

But I have gone over ALL this before....again, and again and then some more. I realise that trying to convince you of anything is futile and a lesson in frustration. You say you believe in the Bible, but then go on to label the Trinity a pagan notion. You ignore all the verses people have shown you...especially the ones that show the Trinity out date pagan religions....a bit of a no brainer if you ask me...no wonder you choose to 'ignore' it.
You claim you do not belong to any of the 'Christian cults', but consider then, you do share one of their basic beliefs. Lets see huh?
Unitarians: Unitarians reject the doctrine of the Trinity

The World Wide Church of God: Armstrong (the founder) believed that Christians should celebrate Sabbath on Saturday–not Sunday, that God was a family–Father and Son–not a Trinity, He taught that the Holy Spirit was an impersonal force, Armstrong taught salvation by grace through faith in Jesus, but also stressed obedience to keeping the Sabbath holy. Armstrong prohibited observing Christmas, Easter and birthdays. This focus on rules eliminated grace from sermons. Members became legalistic and snubbed other Christians.

Jehovah's Witnesses: Since his body decomposed, Jesus rose from the dead as a spirit. Not a body. Jehovah’s Witnesses declare Trinitarianism as a demonic doctrine. Pastors who teach the doctrine are antichrists in Satan’s church, and in fact The Trinity pre-dates Christianity.

Mormonism: The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation." (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206)


Do any of these ideas sound familiar?? You claim not to belong to any cults, but your beliefs sit comfortably beside theirs. I truly hope this makes you wonder, makes you pray, makes you see how erroneous your doctrines are. And consider this also...all the above cults were founded by and circle around a man. A sinful man who then makes so many rules for his followers to harp on and to focus on. True Christianity...it is always about Jesus, and such ridiculous matters like 'only worship on Sunday' or 'Christmas is evil' is only distraction from Jesus. I am not a Jew, and Jesus has given me the freedom to worship Him any day I choose...and I choose every day.

Well then Rach continue to follow the Jesus of the world. Who doesn't care if you worship Him on all those pagan holidays. Sunday included! You will have to stand before God with your excuses. I will continue to follow the God of the Bible. Continue to keep His 7 day sabbath, and feast. Continue to keep His laws.Continue to following Jesus the king of Israel, and High priest. Jesus sacrifice doesn't give you the freedom to indulge in pagan festivals. Thank you! You continue to prove the scriptures correct by speaking evil of my beliefs.
2 Peter 2: [sup]1[/sup]But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. [sup]2[/sup]And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

[sup]3[/sup]And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

So Rach, continue in your pernicious ways, and continue to speak evil of the truth! You worship the Jesus of the world. I worship the Jesus of the bible. I'm done with you Rach.

 

[Rach1370]

Xander, I'm sorry that 'you're done'. I'm sorry that you think I'm evil and 'pernicious'. And I'm sorry that even while defending yourself it's still all about laws and customs and not about love.
I'm not evil, I'm not pagan, and even if you believe that I am, I only care for what Jesus thinks. I will continue to read the Bible and learn about Him, because the more I learn about Him, the more I love Him. I will spend my life growing in Him and loving Him, and when I stand before Him I know that even not having lived a perfect life, I will be saved by His amazing sacrifice and gift of grace.

[36] “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
(Matthew 22:36; Matthew 22:37-40 ESV) [37] And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. [38] This is the great and first commandment. [39] And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [40] On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
(Matthew 22:36; Matthew 22:37-40 ESV)

[13] So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
(1 Corinthians 13:13 ESV)

Am I really so evil then, to love my God so much? To recognize just how much He has done for me? I am sorry Xander, that you cannot see how very close, but still so very far you are from this.