Jesus Christ Was Under Law

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soul man

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Have you ever given much thought to Jesus when he walked the earth was under the law. Why would God "make him to be under the law." Law was what Israel was under when Jesus walked the earth. There was no grace as a message for humanity yet it was all law.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. - John 1:14.

The scriptures says he was he was full of grace and truth but that was not his message because he was under law. When they came to him to snare him with their questions about sin what did he say to them "what does Moses law say." He was full of grace and truth we see that in how he handled the people but the law was still at work and had not been fulfilled yet. He healed on the Sabbath, what was he doing? Giving a glimpse into his grace because he could not preach grace being under law. He couldn't preach grace as a message, a New Testament if you will. That was not in place yet, the law was still active for obedience and relationship with God.

To mix the two is a complete distortion of the word. It is what we call "commingling" or mixing law with grace. The scriptures do not do it and for believers to do it is a total lack of understanding. I use a term I call "trying to get a message out of 66 books." You cannot get grace out of mixing it with law, it's oil and water, day and night, law and grace. Two completely different ways of handling the people spiritually, you cannot not do it because they do not fit each other. It may look good and even sound good on certain levels but like oil and water they will not mix and are there own separate entity. Nothing wrong with law, it is of God, he put it in place and used it for living but it nolonger exsists for obedience and relationship, it has been fulfilled.

What is grace? Grace is Christ in you, grace is a person. Think about grace as a message or covenant or New Testament. They all have to do with Christ in you, you have none of these things without Christ in you. They come about by Christ in you. It is like "the gospel" Paul called it, it is a person. The word of God, the Holy written scriptures always personifies Christ, the Christ in you. When you read Paul and he mentions Christ, it will never be a Christ outside of you it will always be the Christ that is in you. Follow Paul long enough as he suggests and you see his message of Christ in you has to do with living the life of another Christ in you. Since you have no other life but Christ it is a very good idea to pay close attention to Paul and "my gospel," he called it. He preachs nothing but Christ as life, and that life is the only life of the believer. Believers trying to extract a life from scriptures will miserably fail if they do not see Christ as that life.

Reread the first chapter of John and look at the life in John's first chapter as well as the rest of the book. What separates John from most other writers is he wrote some years after Paul and knew what Paul was talking about. The book of John is more than just history as the other synoptic Gospel's, John's book should have been one of the Epistles. John had a revelation of Jesus Christ as did Paul. When you talk about John's revelation it is not his revelation given to him that he penned in the book of "the revelation." That is history and future events having nothing to do with "revelation of Christ in you."

For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. - Galatians 1:12.

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: - Colossians 1:27.
 

101G

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only one word, "Covennt" he came underd the law to fulfil it, meaning to bring it to an end.

Galatians 4:5 "To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."

Hebrews 8:7 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second."
Hebrews 8:8 "For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:"
Hebrews 8:9 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord."
Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"
Hebrews 8:11 "And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."
Hebrews 8:12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."
Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

PICJAG.
 
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Helen

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Amen ...I liked this thread a lot...great thoughts and good posts :)

( Good to see you back over here now @soul man ...the other place has a echo to it now...gradually all came back here , especially with Willie T passing... )
 
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Nancy

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Have you ever given much thought to Jesus when he walked the earth was under the law. Why would God "make him to be under the law." Law was what Israel was under when Jesus walked the earth. There was no grace as a message for humanity yet it was all law.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. - John 1:14.

The scriptures says he was he was full of grace and truth but that was not his message because he was under law. When they came to him to snare him with their questions about sin what did he say to them "what does Moses law say." He was full of grace and truth we see that in how he handled the people but the law was still at work and had not been fulfilled yet. He healed on the Sabbath, what was he doing? Giving a glimpse into his grace because he could not preach grace being under law. He couldn't preach grace as a message, a New Testament if you will. That was not in place yet, the law was still active for obedience and relationship with God.

To mix the two is a complete distortion of the word. It is what we call "commingling" or mixing law with grace. The scriptures do not do it and for believers to do it is a total lack of understanding. I use a term I call "trying to get a message out of 66 books." You cannot get grace out of mixing it with law, it's oil and water, day and night, law and grace. Two completely different ways of handling the people spiritually, you cannot not do it because they do not fit each other. It may look good and even sound good on certain levels but like oil and water they will not mix and are there own separate entity. Nothing wrong with law, it is of God, he put it in place and used it for living but it nolonger exsists for obedience and relationship, it has been fulfilled.

What is grace? Grace is Christ in you, grace is a person. Think about grace as a message or covenant or New Testament. They all have to do with Christ in you, you have none of these things without Christ in you. They come about by Christ in you. It is like "the gospel" Paul called it, it is a person. The word of God, the Holy written scriptures always personifies Christ, the Christ in you. When you read Paul and he mentions Christ, it will never be a Christ outside of you it will always be the Christ that is in you. Follow Paul long enough as he suggests and you see his message of Christ in you has to do with living the life of another Christ in you. Since you have no other life but Christ it is a very good idea to pay close attention to Paul and "my gospel," he called it. He preachs nothing but Christ as life, and that life is the only life of the believer. Believers trying to extract a life from scriptures will miserably fail if they do not see Christ as that life.

Reread the first chapter of John and look at the life in John's first chapter as well as the rest of the book. What separates John from most other writers is he wrote some years after Paul and knew what Paul was talking about. The book of John is more than just history as the other synoptic Gospel's, John's book should have been one of the Epistles. John had a revelation of Jesus Christ as did Paul. When you talk about John's revelation it is not his revelation given to him that he penned in the book of "the revelation." That is history and future events having nothing to do with "revelation of Christ in you."

For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. - Galatians 1:12.

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: - Colossians 1:27.

Hi Soulman, nice to see you! Good post, as usual. And yes...agreed...too many want to shackle us with the Law. Even though Jesus was under the law (since there can be no New Testament without a death) He still fulfilled the Law even by doing certain things on the Sabbath which were the "weightier matters".
Iv'e heard said once "if you are flirting with Moses, you are cheating on Jesus"...love that. :)
 
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soul man

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Amen ...I liked this thread a lot...great thoughts and good posts :)

( Good to see you back over here now @soul man ...the other place has a echo to it now...gradually all came back here , especially with Willie T passing... )

Yes I know sure miss him glad for him
 
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soul man

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Hi Soulman, nice to see you! Good post, as usual. And yes...agreed...too many want to shackle us with the Law. Even though Jesus was under the law (since there can be no New Testament without a death) He still fulfilled the Law even by doing certain things on the Sabbath which were the "weightier matters".
Iv'e heard said once "if you are flirting with Moses, you are cheating on Jesus"...love that. :)

Thank you glad you enjoyed it. I like that saying I may need to steal it, on the Sabbath of coarse
 
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Nancy

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Amen ...I liked this thread a lot...great thoughts and good posts :)

( Good to see you back over here now @soul man ...the other place has a echo to it now...gradually all came back here , especially with Willie T passing... )

That's a for sure Helen...I have missed Soulman's posts, even though they are too long for me to reply to, unless in part.
It won't be too much longer before we are all together
And, weather or not someone believes that, means not a thing to me. Starting to become a bit more assertive in what I do or do not (yet?) believe. What is our "hope" if not that we will all one day be with the Lord and those who have passed on before us. xo
 
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mjrhealth

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To mix the two is a complete distortion of the word. It is what we call "commingling" or mixing law with grace.
Jesus mentioned mixing things right here.

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

But its what men do. Never tasted of the Spirit nor grace so run to the law,
 
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quietthinker

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Have you ever given much thought to Jesus when he walked the earth was under the law. Why would God "make him to be under the law." Law was what Israel was under when Jesus walked the earth. There was no grace as a message for humanity yet it was all law.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. - John 1:14.

The scriptures says he was he was full of grace and truth but that was not his message because he was under law. When they came to him to snare him with their questions about sin what did he say to them "what does Moses law say." He was full of grace and truth we see that in how he handled the people but the law was still at work and had not been fulfilled yet. He healed on the Sabbath, what was he doing? Giving a glimpse into his grace because he could not preach grace being under law. He couldn't preach grace as a message, a New Testament if you will. That was not in place yet, the law was still active for obedience and relationship with God.

To mix the two is a complete distortion of the word. It is what we call "commingling" or mixing law with grace. The scriptures do not do it and for believers to do it is a total lack of understanding. I use a term I call "trying to get a message out of 66 books." You cannot get grace out of mixing it with law, it's oil and water, day and night, law and grace. Two completely different ways of handling the people spiritually, you cannot not do it because they do not fit each other. It may look good and even sound good on certain levels but like oil and water they will not mix and are there own separate entity. Nothing wrong with law, it is of God, he put it in place and used it for living but it nolonger exsists for obedience and relationship, it has been fulfilled.

What is grace? Grace is Christ in you, grace is a person. Think about grace as a message or covenant or New Testament. They all have to do with Christ in you, you have none of these things without Christ in you. They come about by Christ in you. It is like "the gospel" Paul called it, it is a person. The word of God, the Holy written scriptures always personifies Christ, the Christ in you. When you read Paul and he mentions Christ, it will never be a Christ outside of you it will always be the Christ that is in you. Follow Paul long enough as he suggests and you see his message of Christ in you has to do with living the life of another Christ in you. Since you have no other life but Christ it is a very good idea to pay close attention to Paul and "my gospel," he called it. He preachs nothing but Christ as life, and that life is the only life of the believer. Believers trying to extract a life from scriptures will miserably fail if they do not see Christ as that life.

Reread the first chapter of John and look at the life in John's first chapter as well as the rest of the book. What separates John from most other writers is he wrote some years after Paul and knew what Paul was talking about. The book of John is more than just history as the other synoptic Gospel's, John's book should have been one of the Epistles. John had a revelation of Jesus Christ as did Paul. When you talk about John's revelation it is not his revelation given to him that he penned in the book of "the revelation." That is history and future events having nothing to do with "revelation of Christ in you."

For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. - Galatians 1:12.

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: - Colossians 1:27.
What do you think the expression 'under the Law' means soul man?
 
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JunChosen

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Have you ever given much thought to Jesus when he walked the earth was under the law. Why would God "make him to be under the law." Law was what Israel was under when Jesus walked the earth. There was no grace as a message for humanity yet it was all law

Already you begin with a wrong premise!

Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord (Ge.6:8).
 

DNB

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Have you ever given much thought to Jesus when he walked the earth was under the law. Why would God "make him to be under the law." Law was what Israel was under when Jesus walked the earth. There was no grace as a message for humanity yet it was all law. The scriptures says he was he was full of grace and truth but that was not his message because he was under law. When they came to him to snare him with their questions about sin what did he say to them "what does Moses law say." He was full of grace and truth we see that in how he handled the people but the law was still at work and had not been fulfilled yet. He healed on the Sabbath, what was he doing? Giving a glimpse into his grace because he could not preach grace being under law. He couldn't preach grace as a message, a New Testament if you will. That was not in place yet, the law was still active for obedience and relationship with God.

To mix the two is a complete distortion of the word. It is what we call "commingling" or mixing law with grace. The scriptures do not do it and for believers to do it is a total lack of understanding. I use a term I call "trying to get a message out of 66 books." You cannot get grace out of mixing it with law, it's oil and water, day and night, law and grace. Two completely different ways of handling the people spiritually, you cannot not do it because they do not fit each other. It may look good and even sound good on certain levels but like oil and water they will not mix and are there own separate entity. Nothing wrong with law, it is of God, he put it in place and used it for living but it nolonger exsists for obedience and relationship, it has been fulfilled.

What is grace? Grace is Christ in you, grace is a person.
Yes, the issue is quite clear in that there are two fundamentally distinct covenants, that is, one, in essence, is antithetical to the other.

Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

But, there is a profound complexity to this, as how can the Law which was the Israelites righteousness, be deemed either insignificant or inapplicable? As far as soteriology or salvation is concerned, they are mutually exclusive. But, as far as ethics, morality and edification is concerned, they cannot be separated, which was expounded on rather emphatically in the Epistle of James.

Jesus had to fulfill the Law, for God would never annul or abrogate a duly established Covenant, unless or until its purpose came to fruition, so that his precepts and ordinances do not get mocked or fall by the wayside. So that while the Law was implemented, we were all under bondage by such a fastidious and onerous Covenant, and therefore, the principle of Grace undermined and superseded the anxiety and condemnation that are inherent in the Law.

Thus, the two are extreme dichotomies that cannot be integrated nor simultaneously adhered to. But again, this pertains exclusively to salvation, and not to behaviour that is acceptable before God. On an ethical level, God still demands that we abide by the moral stipulations of the Levitical Law (not the dietary, attire, rituals & festivals, ..)
 
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Enoch111

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Why would God "make him to be under the law."
Because Jesus of Nazareth came to FULFIL the Law, it was a divine necessity that He be under the Law. He was the only man who obeyed the Law perfectly, and then paid the penalty under the Law for the sins of the whole world. He took the curse of the Law upon Himself. And because the Law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ, we now have the Law of Christ.
 

soul man

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Already you begin with a wrong premise!

Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord (Ge.6:8).

We are talking about grace as a message, or a new and better Testament. The word grace is not the same message as Jesus Christ full of Grace and Truth. All of Christianity would be based on a new grace (Christ in you) and truths that Jesus would bring. The word grace is found throughout the scriptures, you will have to divide them.
 

soul man

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Jesus mentioned mixing things right here.

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

But its what men do. Never tasted of the Spirit nor grace so run to the law,

Great scriptures
 

soul man

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Yes, the issue is quite clear in that there are two fundamentally distinct covenants, that is, one, in essence, is antithetical to the other.

Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

But, there is a profound complexity to this, as how can the Law which was the Israelites righteousness, be deemed either insignificant or inapplicable? As far as soteriology or salvation is concerned, they are mutually exclusive. But, as far as ethics, morality and edification is concerned, they cannot be separated, which was expounded on rather emphatically in the Epistle of James.

Jesus had to fulfill the Law, for God would never annul or abrogate a duly established Covenant, unless or until its purpose came to fruition, so that his precepts and ordinances do not get mocked or fall by the wayside. So that while the Law was implemented, we were all under bondage by such a fastidious and onerous Covenant, and therefore, the principle of Grace undermined and superseded the anxiety and condemnation that are inherent in the Law.

Thus, the two are extreme dichotomies that cannot be integrated nor simultaneously adhered to. But again, this pertains exclusively to salvation, and not to behaviour that is acceptable before God. On an ethical level, God still demands that we abide by the moral stipulations of the Levitical Law (not the dietary, attire, rituals & festivals, ..)

Good word
 
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DNB

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Jesus mentioned mixing things right here.

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

But its what men do. Never tasted of the Spirit nor grace so run to the law,
Great support verses!
 

DNB

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Already you begin with a wrong premise!

Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord (Ge.6:8).
You have confused two very different premises. Although the grace that was applied to Noah, and that to the advent of Christ believers, lead to a salvation of some sort or another, the grounds were different. Soul Man is speaking of a new duly established Covenant that is based on faith, removing the arduous duty of abiding by the 613 laws of the Mosaic Covenant. In this case, Grace is the superseding of the Levitical Law, i.e. faith over works. The grace that was applied to Noah was also merciful, but derived from a different basis i.e. his acts. In other words, the word grace in this context can also be interpreted as favor, as the majority of translations render it.
Your entire premise and comprehension is incorrect.

Genesis 6:8-9
6:8. But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD. 9. These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.
 
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DPMartin

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Have you ever given much thought to Jesus when he walked the earth was under the law. Why would God "make him to be under the law." Law was what Israel was under when Jesus walked the earth. There was no grace as a message for humanity yet it was all law.

.


your premise that Jesus Christ Was Under Law is way off, incorrect, and contrary to what Jesus says:


Mar 2:25  And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? 
Mar 2:26  How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? 
Mar 2:27  And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 
Mar 2:28  Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. 

since Jesus says He even in His status in the flesh as Son of man, or any other man for that matter, isn't under the law, what are you talking about?
 
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