Jesus Followed Satan OR Satan Had Physical Power Over Jesus?

[Wrangler]

I've given the counterproposal that Jack showed Jill some pictures intended to entice her.

Not an accurate paraphrasing of the text. Why are you side stepping ‘take/led’ and what these words mean? Sacred cow?

 

[Lambano]

Not an accurate paraphrasing of the text. Why are you side stepping ‘take/led’ and what these words mean? Sacred cow?

Nah, I just think you're taking literally text that wasn't meant to be taken literally.

 

[talons]

The Tempter "taking Jesus to a high mountain and showing Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time" strongly suggests a vision. A literal mountain like that does not exist anywhere on the planet.

I will agree "moment in time " does suggest a vision , but I will tell below my thoughts .

Physically travelling instantaneously from the Negev to the pinnacle of the Temple in Jerusalem? More likely a local cliff or rock the Accuser made to appear like the pinnacle of the Temple. Deception is more Satan's style.

Is it possible that all the temptations presented by Satan , were to use a modern term , a multi-media presentation , some visions and some temptations in the real life .

I don't assume anything about how visions work.

One vision I had was presented to me as letters on a painting where letters had never been on the painting in the decades the painting had hung on the wall . I was quit taken aback upon seeing the letters and asked my wife why I have not seen these letters before on the painting ! The letters looked to be a part of the painting just as if they were painted on there . My wife did not see the letters nor did two other relatives in the room with us , but none of them told me they could not see the letters but they went along with me . They thought I was loosing my mind . I walked into another room and on another painting I also saw the same kind of letters where they had never been before in the painting . The understanding to why I saw the letters came years later .

 

[Stumpmaster]

It's not much of a test if one cannot pass or fail it.

The response of Jesus to the Devil's temptation is in contrast to Eve's, and subsequently Adam's. God used the timespan inbetween these two perversion assertions by Satan to breathe the Old Testament Scriptures into existence for His People, and of course, for Christ to use against the enemy.

 

[GracePeace]

In Luke 4:5 and 9 it reads, depending on the translation, that the Devil took Jesus up or led Jesus. If the devil led Jesus to a high place, it means Jesus followed the devil.

If the devil had physical power over Jesus, why didn't he throw Jesus to his death? And why don't demons exercise physical power over people on a regular basis?

My study notes do not offer an explanation. Thoughts?

The devil prayed to God (as in Job) to ask Him if he could tempt the Lord, and God granted him his request to tempt the Lord.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

In Luke 4:5 and 9 it reads, depending on the translation, that the Devil took Jesus up or led Jesus. If the devil led Jesus to a high place, it means Jesus followed the devil.

If the devil had physical power over Jesus, why didn't he throw Jesus to his death? And why don't demons exercise physical power over people on a regular basis?

My study notes do not offer an explanation. Thoughts?

Satan had no power over Jesus. The Father sent His Son, the Messiah/Savior on a mission and his first task was a 40 day fast in the wilderness and temptation by Satan. It was just part of God's plan.
Several things were accomplished.
1. Jesus was tempted and remained faithful to His Father. Being referred to as the Second Adam, Jesus succeeded, where Adam failed.
2. He set an example for us, to persevere, remain hopeful through our trials in life.
3. He used scripture ( a sword came out of His mouth) to resist temptation, rebuke Satan, defeat him in his first battle, a victorious one.It is also interesting thatwhen Satan tempted Jesus to throw Himself off the cliff t I prove He was the Son and that angels would protect Him, He said you shall not temptation the Lord your God! Who did Jesus mean? Satan wasn't twmpting the Father, he was tempting Jesus, who is God.

 

[Lambano]

If the devil had physical power over Jesus, why didn't he throw Jesus to his death?

Or just leave Him there on the pinnacle of the temple and say, “Okay, pal, you’re on your own from here. You figure out how to get down.”

 

[Stumpmaster]

If the devil had physical power over Jesus, why didn't he throw Jesus to his death?

Not God's Will.

 

[Wrangler]

Satan had no power over Jesus.

So you assert while ignoring the presented text.

He said you shall not temptation the Lord your God! Who did Jesus mean? Satan wasn't twmpting the Father, he was tempting Jesus, who is God.

Two points:
1. Most translations render the text "test". That is, you shall not put God to the test. The statement was not made about Jesus being tempted, for he was. That was the whole point of him being in the desert. Rather, the statement was about God and whether he would act, not only to defend Jesus suicide attempt but also act to prove to the devil that God will prove himself to the devil.

2. Your last sentence is a violation of the rules of the forum. Policy - Topics That Can No-Longer Be Discussed at CyB

At the moment, we only have issue with one particular topic, which is "The Trinity".

This topic may not be initiated, discussed or debated at Christianity Board, whether it be for or against the Trinitarian view. Included in this is the side mantra of "Jesus is not God"

Having said that, I have to point out your circular reasoning. There is the Lord God and there is the Lord Jesus. The Lord God sent the Lord Jesus to the desert to be tested/tempted. Jesus was not referring to himself but whether or not the Lord God would prove himself to the devil by thwarting Jesus' suicide attempt - had he followed the led of the devil AGAIN.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Most translations render the text "test". That is, you shall not put God to the test. The statement was not made about Jesus being tempted, for he was. That was the whole point of him being in the desert. Rather, the statement was about God and whether he would act, not only to defend Jesus suicide attempt but also act to prove to the devil that God will prove himself to the devil.

Well, correct, out of 62 English tranalations viewed at Biblegateway,com, 25 say "tempt" and 37 say "test".. The words are interchangeable - they mean the same thing. That was the point of Him being in the desert - not the premise of your thread. The statement was about the Lord. Jesus is Lord. Can you say that - aloud? There is only One Lord thy God,.one Savior.
And Jesus answered and said to him, “It has been said, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ”NKJ

Your last sentence is a violation of the rules of the forum.

Your belief about Jesus is a violation of truth, but I will not push the envelope by debating the false doctrine held by a mere 2-3% of 2.7 billion Christians - no need, no real argument. Frankly, I think the forum rule was established to shut you guys up mainly but also to end the dishonor and degradation of Jesus.

There is the Lord God and there is the Lord Jesus

You'll figure that out someday ... well maybe not.
Jesus will enlighten you Himself when you bow your knee to Him and worship Him.
...For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”Luke 4:8

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is Lord. Can you say that - aloud? There is only One Lord

This is simply false. There are dozens of lords in Scripture.

 

[Wrangler]

The statement was about the Lord. Jesus is Lord.

You are confused. There is only one LORD God, who is Jesus' God. And we have only one lord, who is Jesus. See Ps 110:1.

 

[Wrangler]

to end the dishonor and degradation of Jesus.

The dishonor is yours for you deny the full sacrifice of Jesus, counting it as half a sacrifice.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The dishonor is yours for you deny the full sacrifice of Jesus, counting it as half a sacrifice.

You give full honor and worship to God, our Father. That is good. But you do not give the rightly deserved honor nor recognize the true nature of Jesus - who is equal to the Father. And the Holy Spirit ... well, you do not have a grasp on Him either.
But Jesus knew this. "who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men.
God emptied Himself and became flesh and dwelt among us.
Still, some people cannot grasp this concept. One has to be omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent (the distinct aspects of an all mighty God) to have all power and authority in Heaven and on earth.
And btw, your thread title borders on this argument indirectly, doesn't it? Your either or question implies Jesus is not the Almighty God who either was under Satan's power or was led by Satan. And you want Christians to choose and confirm this. We won't fall into that trap!

But let us not quarrel about this, as you said, the topic is prohibited on this forum. I actually enjoy communicating with you most of the time and agree with you most of the time. We side with eachother on many topics - just not this one - WHICH IS A BIG ONE.

 

[Bob Estey]

In Luke 4:5 and 9 it reads, depending on the translation, that the Devil took Jesus up or led Jesus. If the devil led Jesus to a high place, it means Jesus followed the devil.

If the devil had physical power over Jesus, why didn't he throw Jesus to his death? And why don't demons exercise physical power over people on a regular basis?

My study notes do not offer an explanation. Thoughts?

Just because the devil took Jesus to a high place doesn't mean the devil had power over him. My brother took me to a movie when I was visiting him in Eugene last summer, but he had no power over me.

 

[Wrangler]

you do not give the rightly deserved honor nor recognize the true nature of Jesus.

What you say is only your opinion, not true as it contradicts Scripture. Jesus was a servant, sent, told what to say and how to say it, ultimately submitted his will to his God and died. Let me say that again, YHWH, the Father is Jesus' God. YHWH, the Father, is God and has no God. Does it make sense to you that God has a God?

God also said .... ‘Yahweh ... is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered for generation after generation.
Exodus 3:15

there is no god beside me
Deuteronomy 32:39

God has made him both Lord and Christ
Acts 2:36

there is one God, the Father
1 Corinthians 8:6

the head of Christ is God
1 Corinthians 11:3

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him
Revelation 1:1

I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God ...I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.
Revelations 3:12 (Jesus refers to his God 4 times in 1 sentence)

None of this suggests equality. One species is different from another species even if they share 99 other traits.

Only YHWH, the Father is stated to be God in Scripture; every single epistle mentions it. You could not have missed this. He was not sent, told what to say, submitted his will to Jesus. He did submit to the will of Abraham and Moses, however. And most obviously, Jesus died. God did not die nor can he die. There is no command to recognize Jesus as you claim. See my signature.

This will be my last post on your attempt to hijack this thread and violate forum rules.

 

[Toro55]

The bible says the holy spirit led him out to the temptations.The confrontation was meant to happen.
Driven by the Spirit into the desert, Jesus remains there for forty days without eating; he lives among wild beasts, and angels minister to him. At the end of this time Satan tempts him three times, seeking to compromise his filial attitude toward God.
First, Satan tempted Jesus to turn stones into bread to relieve his hunger, emphasizing the physical aspect of his humanity. Jesus responded by asserting the importance of spiritual nourishment over physical desires.
In the second temptation, Satan urged Jesus to jump from the pinnacle of the temple, testing God's protection by relying on miraculous intervention. Jesus rejected this, emphasizing the need to trust in God without putting Him to the test.
Finally, Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world in exchange for worship. Jesus rebuffed the offer, emphasizing the exclusive worship of God and rejecting the pursuit of worldly power. Throughout these temptations, Jesus relied on scripture and resolute commitment to His divine mission, setting an example of resistance against the temptation of physical appetites, sensationalism, and earthly power.
He always started with it is written using the word of God to defeat the temptation.The word of God is symbolized as a blue sword in the armor of God.The sword of the Spirit is the word of God and you can wield it also.The six are Belt of truth, Breastplate of righteousness, shoes of the gospel Of peace, shield of faith, helmet of salvation and the sword of the spirit which is the word of God.

Satan also does not seem to know why Jesus came - to sacrifice himself to save humanity - I guess Satan believed he had won and there was no way to defeat what he had done to humanity in the fall..

 

[Wrangler]

The bible says the holy spirit led him out to the temptations.The confrontation was meant to happen.
Driven by the Spirit into the desert, Jesus remains there for forty days without eating

I find it revealing how many posters feel it necessary to:

1. Summarize the chapter
2. Side step the question of the OP.

 

[Toro55]

Mark 1:12-15. The Spirit drove Jesus out into the desert, and he remained in the desert for forty days, tempted by Satan. He was among wild beasts, and the angels ministered to him.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Jesus was a servant, sent, told what to say and how to say it, ultimately submitted his will to his God and died.

Yes, He relinquished His glory temporarily. Then remember after His mission _ accomplished _ it was returned to Him!
And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed. JOHN 17:5
Btw, Jesus is YHWH, the Great I AM, Whom in His preincarnate state, spoke to Moses (Ex. 3:14). And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
That was His brief introduction, not very descriptive; but enough to express at the time. Later He would expound and enlighten them throughout His plan for His chosen nation but then more fully when He emptied Himself into a human vessel, Jesus, and revealed Himself.
I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life.
I AM the Good Shepherd
I AM the Bread of Life
I AM the Door
I AM the VINE
I AM the Resurrection and the Life.
I AM the Alpha and Omega

Evidently, you don't really understand what these scriptures mean. Only God can claim them. If Jesus wasn't God, He would not make these claims, He could only point to His Father and use all those descriptions to describe Him only. No, He said these things of Himself. HE IS LIFE! Do you know what that means, the source of physical and spiritual life?
Now, I'm done.