Jesus Followed Satan OR Satan Had Physical Power Over Jesus?

[Wrangler]

The invention here of a controversy over Christ's willingness to be tempted by Satan is noted but not endorsed.

Sounds like you are fundamentally denying Scripture, which categorically, explicitly states that the devil tempted Jesus.

He didn't fall into temptation ... God allowed the test, knowing He would still win.

To say Jesus was human, like us, yet not tempted is a contradiction. Inspiring beyond compare to know the man was tempted but due to his unshakable faith in God, did not fall into tempation.

 

[Lambano]

I don't know what you are asking. VR-quality vision; what is that?

Pretty much what it says.

The Accuser showed Jesus these things in a vision.

 

[Wrangler]

Pretty much what it says.

The Accuser showed Jesus these things in a vision.

Same question about physically having power over us. If fallen angels can show us visions, why don't they do it all the time?

 

[Lambano]

Same question about physically having power over us. If fallen angels can show us visions, why don't they do it all the time?

Nah, it's more like running a movie for them. Put a tape in the VCR, or a DVD in the player. No implied power.

 

[DuckieLady]

To say Jesus was human, like us, yet not tempted is a contradiction. Inspiring beyond compare to know the man was tempted but due to his unshakable faith in God, did not fall into tempation.

No, he was tempted. I said he didn't fall into temptation. In other words, he didn't take the bait.

 

[DuckieLady]

Same question about physically having power over us. If fallen angels can show us visions, why don't they do it all the time?

There are false dreams and visions and they happen A LOT. God is a good protector.

 

[Behold]

In Luke 4:5 and 9 it reads, depending on the translation, that the Devil took Jesus up or led Jesus. If the devil led Jesus to a high place, it means Jesus followed the devil.

If the devil had physical power over Jesus, why didn't he throw Jesus to his death? And why don't demons exercise physical power over people on a regular basis?

My study notes do not offer an explanation. Thoughts?

Actually this is a part of Satan's offer of temptation.

So, that is not "power over Jesus" that is just the tempter tempting.

He does this to your mind., all the time., and that is not his power over you.....its his power to lead you, into temptation.

= "resist the devil, and he shall flee from you""

= "Put on the whole armor of God, so that you shall be able to STAND against the (wiles) the plans, the plots, the temptations of the DeviL"

 

[Wrangler]

There are false dreams and visions and they happen A LOT.

Years ago, I got up in front of the church and recounted a dream with powerful demonic undertones. The Pastor said sometimes a dream is just a dream. TRANSLATION: Luke 4 recounts the author factually knowing Jesus was taken/led by the devil. That's more than merely a false dream or vision.

This thread is talking about the devil and his ability to take/lead Christ, specifically, and humans generally. It's not merely identifying a thing (dream or vision) as being false.

 

[DuckieLady]

Years ago, I got up in front of the church and recounted a dream with powerful demonic undertones. The Pastor said sometimes a dream is just a dream. TRANSLATION: Luke 4 recounts the author factually knowing Jesus was taken/led by the devil. That's more than merely a false dream or vision.

This thread is talking about the devil and his ability to take/lead Christ, specifically, and humans generally. It's not merely identifying a thing (dream or vision) as being false.

Years ago, I was laying in bed and a voice said in my ear "Gonna send you a nightmare." I don't remember what it was, but I had a nightmare that night and woke up with sleep paralysis. I was in major spiritual warfare at that time.

Now I know to pray against threats. At that time I would just be confused when I heard something.

I believe sometimes a dream is a dream, most of the time. But these things do happen.

Luckily, this all stopped a couple years ago. Most of the time every day is pretty ordinary.

 

[talons]

Same question about physically having power over us. If fallen angels can show us visions, why don't they do it all the time?

Will the satanic visions be of a nature that you would understand it to be a fallen vision ? Case in point , UAPs or UFO's , I am not saying all of these reports are of the fallen realm but some I believe are . Have you read much about Fatima ?

But if we see these fallen visions it DOES NOT suggest to me it is a power over us as Christians . The fallen power being exhibited is external to us . In other words as Christians our minds are protected by the Holy Spirit and satan does not have access to our minds , The Helmet of Salvation .

 

[talons]

Could we put in an option in the poll for a VR-quality vision? That sounds like a more reasonable explanation than the two given.

I am not comfortable with the idea of satan putting a vision into the mind of Jesus , hard no for me .

I believe visions can manifest in at least two ways externally and in the mind . What is presented to us in scripture to me does not suggest it was a vision presented to Jesus from satan .

 

[talons]

In Luke 4:5 and 9 it reads, depending on the translation, that the Devil took Jesus up or led Jesus. If the devil led Jesus to a high place, it means Jesus followed the devil.

If the devil had physical power over Jesus, why didn't he throw Jesus to his death?

Just because you follow where someone leads it does not mean they have taken control over actions as you follow . It was necessary for Jesus to be tempted in the way he was by satan .
If someone told you to follow them walking and you did and the person you were following got to cliff and said we are jumping off here I would hope your following would end !

And why don't demons exercise physical power over people on a regular basis?

If you are not a Christian you have no protection provided by the Holy Spirit .

 

[Lambano]

This thread is talking about the devil and his ability to take/lead Christ, specifically, and humans generally.

The Devil having power over Jesus is obviously problematic. That implies, among other things, that a believer can be possessed by the Devil. "Greater is He who is in you than he who is in the World". (1 John 4:4) I think John 19:11 applies: "You would have no power over me except that it was given from above."

Jesus "following" the Devil (and I assume the words were chosen to be intentionally provocative) is also problematic because it makes Jesus complicit in the Temptation.

 

[Lambano]

I believe visions can manifest in at least two ways externally and in the mind . What is presented to us in scripture to me does not suggest it was a vision presented to Jesus from satan .

I don't assume anything about how visions work.

The Tempter "taking Jesus to a high mountain and showing Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time" strongly suggests a vision. A literal mountain like that does not exist anywhere on the planet.

Physically travelling instantaneously from the Negev to the pinnacle of the Temple in Jerusalem? More likely a local cliff or rock the Accuser made to appear like the pinnacle of the Temple. Deception is more Satan's style.

 

[Verily]

It does show Satan can be rather suggestive, such as putting an idea into the heart, like the heart of Judas Iscariot's to betray of Christ

John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

As with Ananias, filling his heart to lie to the Holy Ghost

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Satan is shown taking away the word that was sown in hearts

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

The thoughts of the heart, or even the imaginations appear to be where Satan attempts to guide people which is why we are to cast those down when they are contrary to Christ.

2 Cr 10:4-5 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

We can all get a picture of something in our imagination in a moment of time where any one of us could consider it and perhaps be fed suggestions according to it. I would probably "imagine" (pun intended) it could have happened that way. Since our hearts can be tried to see what is in them or how we'd respond to something suggested against Christ.

It says here also

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

1Cr 10:3 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Paul says,

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

These various pictures of the Captain of our salvations temptations weave beautifully into our instruction

Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

1John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And so we are told,

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

And here we see

Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Heb 2:8 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

As the tempter desired to have Job, the same is expressed here towards Simon

Luke 22:31 Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Same thing, as with Christ, and the apostles and all the brethren, the trying of your faith

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

1Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Jeus is also called a "tried stone"

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus "following" the Devil (and I assume the words were chosen to be intentionally provocative) is also problematic because it makes Jesus complicit in the Temptation.

Regarding intentionally provocative, only if one holds to a sacred cow. Normal language usage. Equivalent statements:

• Jack led Jill up the hill.
• Jill followed Jack up the hill.

Regarding being complicit in temptation, please expand on this. The Lord's prayer is to lead us out of (or not in) temptation; the prayer is not to remove the existence of temptation. As mature beings, we should be able to handle that. As a parent, I did not seek to keep my daughter away from any possible temptation, danger or risk. Rather, I taught her how to effectively handle life's challenges, including the virtue of prudeness. Was it prudent for Jesus (to allow himself) to be led or taken by the devil?

I would say most prudent people, upon recognizing one is interacting with a demon, would promptly end the interaction. They would not allow themselves to be take or led to the top of a mountain, etc.

Some here have posted something along the lines supposing Jesus could not be tempted. Another sacred cow. If this were true, there would be no point to God's spirit willing him to go to the desert to be tested. It's not much of a test if one cannot pass or fail it.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Wrangler,

This the new living translation.

 

[Wrangler]

Hello @Wrangler,

This the new living translation.
View attachment 52856

Jesus did not eat for 40 days. He became very hungry = Biggest understatement in the Bible.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus did not eat for 40 days. He became very hungry = Biggest understatement in the Bible.

Hello @Wrangler,

Without mana how can we hold on and feed our faith?

 

[Lambano]

• Jack led Jill up the hill.
• Jill followed Jack up the hill.

You've given us the choice of Jack binding Jill and dragging her up the hill for nefarious purposes, or Jill following Jack up the hill despite knowing Jack's reputation, implying that she had some interest in what Jack had to offer and sullying Jill's own reputation.

I've given the counterproposal that Jack showed Jill some pictures intended to entice her.

But then, I've been told multiple times that I don't know Jack.