Jesus - God or not?

[0bed]

who was Jesus praying to all the time?

if Jesus was the Lord Most High, why would Satan try and tempt Him. the Most High is over all things so who was he trying to turn Him from? the Father would never bow down to Satan, we know that, Satan is smarter than us, he would know this as well.

Jesus is God in the flesh, and because of that he has two identities. He has the flesh of Mary and in this way the invisible God, who is Spirit was manifest on earth.
Jesus the man prayed to his Father, but as God he created all things. (Colossians 1:16).
The two identities of Jesus are best explained in the TV program Undercover Boss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrA0dHRsWXM

 

[StanJ]

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

1 Cor. 8:6 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God

Are you as prepared to accept all the other scriptures that show that Jesus is God just as much as you're willing to use these scriptures to cast doubt?

 

[StanJ]

Which is also why it is stated that beside God there is no savior. Man cannot redeem itself and save itself from the wrath of God. So, as reason dictates, it means that under that meat suit of the man named Jesus was " the word" itself, who always was God from time everlasting.

Yes, many times in the Old Testament it is stated God Is our only Savior, and in the New Testament is it stated the same thing. There's only one God and there's only one savior and they both exist in the personage of Jesus Christ.

 

[jaybird]

Jesus is God in the flesh, and because of that he has two identities. He has the flesh of Mary and in this way the invisible God, who is Spirit was manifest on earth.
Jesus the man prayed to his Father, but as God he created all things. (Colossians 1:16).
The two identities of Jesus are best explained in the TV program Undercover Boss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrA0dHRsWXM

if Jesus was the Almighty then whats the point of praying to the Almighty? if they were one and the same why did the Son need the Father to strengthen His will. the will of the Father and will of the Son are obviously not one and the same.

 

[OzSpen]

I've spent many years with people of many denominations - trinitarians and unitarians - desperately trying to establish the biblical stance of many issues and am still uncertain.
Would anyone like to discuss the nature of Christ from a scriptural point of view?

Airaux,

You've gone missing in action for 16 days. If this was a serious question, why have you not responded to some of the replies? Are you a troll?

 

[brakelite]

Are you as prepared to accept all the other scriptures that show that Jesus is God just as much as you're willing to use these scriptures to cast doubt?

Stan, those scriptures I presented, showing and declaring unequivocally that Jesus is the Son of God, is, contrary to casting doubt on His deity, is the greatest evidence and affirmation of faith for the deity of Christ. If you cannot see that, you seriously need to re-examine your own understanding of

John 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[brakelite]

There's only one God and there's only one savior and they both exist in the personage of Jesus Christ.

Can you please, for the benefit of all those reading and who may become confused between the above statement of yours and what the Bible teaches, reconcile why what you state above appears so contrary to
1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him?

 

[StanJ]

Stan, those scriptures I presented, showing and declaring unequivocally that Jesus is the Son of God, is, contrary to casting doubt on His deity, is the greatest evidence and affirmation of faith for the deity of Christ. If you cannot see that, you seriously need to re-examine your own understanding of
John 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Not what I asked and all you're doing here is deflecting... please answer the question.

 

[StanJ]

Can you please, for the benefit of all those reading and who may become confused between the above statement of yours and what the Bible teaches, reconcile why what you state above appears so contrary to
1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him?

I'm sorry, I think you seem to be about the only one who is confused by what I said. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, are one God. You take one verse out of context to try to make it something it really is not saying. What Paul said 'in context', was;
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[StanJ]

if Jesus was the Almighty then whats the point of praying to the Almighty? if they were one and the same why did the Son need the Father to strengthen His will. the will of the Father and will of the Son are obviously not one and the same.

The following is what Jesus says in John 14;
Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Now the question is do you believe this or not?

 

[jaybird]

The following is what Jesus says in John 14;
Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Now the question is do you believe this or not?

i do believe the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son.
i do not believe that the Son is the Father or the Father is the Son.
i believe there is a difference between the two.

 

[StanJ]

i do believe the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son.
i do not believe that the Son is the Father or the Father is the Son.
i believe there is a difference between the two.

So you don't believe what Jesus also said John 14:7&9, or in John 10:25-30?
"If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
“Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"
“I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

 

[jaybird]

So you don't believe what Jesus also said John 14:7&9, or in John 10:25-30?
"If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
“Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"
“I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

i do believe what Jesus says.
do you believe what He says?

He does works in the Fathers name, not His own.
His Father gave them to Him. He didnt give them to Himself

the Father and Son are one does not mean the Father is the Son and the Son is the Father.

there is much more to what Jesus taught than simply saying Jesus is the All High. think about it, if it was that simple why in the world would He bother with all the Father, Son, sent from, this is My Son, etc.
if Jesus was the All High what does it teach us? that the Father can become a man, the Father can save, the Father can do a miracle? i have never disputed such things, do you?

 

[StanJ]

i do believe what Jesus says.
do you believe what He says?

He does works in the Fathers name, not His own.
His Father gave them to Him. He didnt give them to Himself

the Father and Son are one does not mean the Father is the Son and the Son is the Father.

there is much more to what Jesus taught than simply saying Jesus is the All High. think about it, if it was that simple why in the world would He bother with all the Father, Son, sent from, this is My Son, etc.
if Jesus was the All High what does it teach us? that the Father can become a man, the Father can save, the Father can do a miracle? i have never disputed such things, do you?

Yes he does, but he does the work of his father. So do you think Jesus is another God if he is able to do Godly works?
In essence he did give them to himself because the Word, who is God, John 1, gave the disciples to his son, who is the Word God incarnate.
If you don't understand the Shema of the Old Testament then you won't understand the Trinity of the New Testament. They are one in ALL ways.
That you can't comprehend with your human mind the Triune nature of God, doesn't mean that your reasoning or rationale is valid, it just means you don't understand. Faith comes first then understanding.

 

[jaybird]

Yes he does, but he does the work of his father. So do you think Jesus is another God if he is able to do Godly works?
In essence he did give them to himself because the Word, who is God, John 1, gave the disciples to his son, who is the Word God incarnate.
If you don't understand the Shema of the Old Testament then you won't understand the Trinity of the New Testament. They are one in ALL ways.
That you can't comprehend with your human mind the Triune nature of God, doesn't mean that your reasoning or rationale is valid, it just means you don't understand. Faith comes first then understanding.

Elijah did godly works, does that make him the Almighty?

IMO the word is the creating power of the Most High.

the Shema says one, not three in one. Jews never understood it this way and they still dont today.

interesting that the trinity has been the biggest subject of debate among Christians for close to two thousand years, yet of all those "experts" that tried to test Jesus, not one tested Him on this teaching, i wonder why?
after Christianity was adopted by rome there are many church fathers (about 300 years later) that give detailed teachings on the trinity and the natures of the All High, yet before rome, no Apostle, paul nor Jesus gave a detailed teaching on this, i wonder why?

 

[brakelite]

I'm sorry, I think you seem to be about the only one who is confused by what I said. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, are one God. You take one verse out of context to try to make it something it really is not saying. What Paul said 'in context', was;
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

I am not confused at all....I am not the one teaching things that aren't taught in scripture. Please supply a text which declares God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, without the textual or grammatical criticism. And in addition, when Paul declares there is but one God, the Father, context is irrelevant. You are simply attempting to deny the obvious. Paul is simply agreeing with the rest of scripture and what he taught throughout the NT. No Stan, it is you and like Trinitarians who distort the truth and invent a motif that contradicts the plain teaching of scripture.
Ro 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Ro 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Ga 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
Ga 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Need I go further? Because there are heaps of scriptures in nearly every book of the NT saying precisely the same thing. So, no Stan, I am not confused at all. I believe the Father had a Son, and the Son has a Father. It is you Stan who is confused, as the following quote of yours reveals, contradicting the above truths of the Bible, even the foundation of our faith (Matt 16:16), quote:There's only one God and there's only one savior and they both exist in the personage of Jesus Christ.

 

[brakelite]

Not what I asked and all you're doing here is deflecting... please answer the question.

I did answer the question. You are denying the obvious.
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

 

[jaybird]

i think your on to something brakelight.

here is a question, why do trins think the trinity is so important? Jesus doesnt have specific teachings on why its so important to believe or accept these three natures. He never mentions follow me but only follow if you believe this or that nature of the Father, its not part of the apostles creed. so how did it become such a giant of benchmarks for Christianity?

 

[0bed]

I dont remember Jesus having a government on His shoulders.

Isaiah says the government shall be upon his shoulder. Wait till he returns.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isa 9:6)

 

[0bed]

I dont remember Jesus having a government on His shoulders.

Isaiah says the government shall be upon his shoulder. Wait till he returns.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isa 9:6)