Jesus in John 3 has been debunked by Christians that disobey Acts 2

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Behold

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Did the disciples have the Holy Ghost prior to Acts 1?...

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


Reader...

I think we would need to find out if you believe that Jesus is God.
Do you?
Do you believe that 1 Timothy 3:16 is true? It says that God became Flesh.....Thats Jesus.
Do you believe this?
How about Colossians 1:16...that Says that Jesus created everything.
Believe it ????
How about John 1:10, that says that Jesus created the WORLD.
See.....if you don't believe in the Deity of Christ, then you wont understand what im about to teach.


Do you have a New Testament?
Read John 20:22... It says that JESUS breathed on the Apostles, and told them to RECEIVE THE SPIRIT.

Now read, Genesis 2:7...It says that God did the same thing with ADAM...and ADAM became a LIVING SOUL.

Now, if Jesus is God, then both situations are the same event.

Now, read Acts 1:8.
Its says that the Holy Ghost is come upon YOU>........not IN YOU.
See it?
It says......when the Holy Ghost is come UPON YOU>...........not IN YOU>........>Not "Christ IN YOU">.........but "upon you".
So, what is that?
That is the empowering of this..... 2 Corinthians 12:12.
That is "called into the Ministry".......that is Peter being gifted and empowered as the Holy Spirit came UPON Him.....as it was already in Him....but the empowering of the Apostleship.......as 2nd Corinthians 12:12, came that day to Peter.

Truther, your verse says, that this empowering would empower/enable him to become a WITNESS.....
See that? That is Peter being called....and enabled to do the Ministry.
Notice he receives the "gift of Tongues" that day, and didnt have it before.

Notice also that Peter was not water baptized that day.......HE only told the BELIEVERS to go and get water baptized.
Yet he wasn't.
Did you notice this?
Notice it.
 

Truther

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Acts 2 is not about being born again. And just as it wasn't my idea to be physically born; it isn't my idea to be spiritually born. Being born again isn't up to me, or you or anyone else.
This is not "born again"?...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 

Truther

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Reader...

I think we would need to find out if you believe that Jesus is God.
Do you?
Do you believe that 1 Timothy 3:16 is true? It says that God became Flesh.....Thats Jesus.
Do you believe this?
How about Colossians 1:16...that Says that Jesus created everything.
Believe it ????
How about John 1:10, that says that Jesus created the WORLD.
See.....if you don't believe in the Deity of Christ, then you wont understand what im about to teach.


Do you have a New Testament?
Read John 20:22... It says that JESUS breathed on the Apostles, and told them to RECEIVE THE SPIRIT.

Now read, Genesis 2:7...It says that God did the same thing with ADAM...and ADAM became a LIVING SOUL.

Now, if Jesus is God, then both situations are the same event.

Now, read Acts 1:8.
Its says that the Holy Ghost is come upon YOU>........not IN YOU.
See it?
It says......when the Holy Ghost is come UPON YOU>...........not IN YOU>........>Not "Christ IN YOU">.........but "upon you".
So, what is that?
That is the empowering of this..... 2 Corinthians 12:12.
That is "called into the Ministry".......that is Peter being gifted and empowered as the Holy Spirit came UPON Him.....as it was already in Him....but the empowering of the Apostleship.......as 2nd Corinthians 12:12, came that day to Peter.

Truther, your verse says, that this empowering would empower/enable him to become a WITNESS.....
See that? That is Peter being called....and enabled to do the Ministry.
Notice he receives the "gift of Tongues" that day, and didnt have it before.

Notice also that Peter was not water baptized that day.......HE only told the BELIEVERS to go and get water baptized.
Yet he wasn't.
Did you notice this?
Notice it.
Jesus is God.

Now, were the disciples full of the Holy Ghost prior to this statement(command)?...

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
 

Jim B

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Acts 2 is not about being born again. And just as it wasn't my idea to be physically born; it isn't my idea to be spiritually born. Being born again isn't up to me, or you or anyone else.

If you must be born again, whom is it up to if not you. When Jesus said this in John 3:3 -- "Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God” do you think He was talking in the abstract?
 

Behold

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Amen, we must obey Acts 2 at all costs.

Not at all.

Here is the final answer.

“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY gospel.” – Romans 2:16

Now, go and find out what "my Gospel" is......as Paul told you 3x, and you can believe its not...get in the water.

How do you know?
Because Paul told you...>"Christ sent me not to water baptize".
 

Behold

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Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

And they did. This is why the verses says....>"upon you"....... not IN you.

"upon you"......the Holy Ghost is come.........."upon you".......and the RESULT? = You will be witnesses to me.....everywhere.
See that?
That is the enabling for the ministry........not the being born again.

Remember, Jesus didnt say to them......."Go to Jerusalem, and be born again"...
He said, that something would happen to them, that would cause them to go and become "witnesses"... and that is the enabling power, that is being "called into the ministry", AND being enabled with power from on High. = "upon you".
 

GRACE ambassador

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“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY gospel.” – Romans 2:16

Now, go and find out what "my Gospel" is......as Paul told you 3x, and you can believe its not...get in the water.

How do you know?
Because Paul told you...>"Christ sent me NOT to water baptize".
Amen! We MUST Be Baptized BY The ONE BAPTISM, Under The
Gospel Of GRACE, Today = "BY" The ONE Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:5;
1 Corinthians 12:13)...

...At ALL Costs!!
NO "such thing as TWO baptismS" Today, Under
God's PURE GRACE!
Amen?
 

Behold

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Amen! We MUST Be Baptized BY The ONE BAPTISM, Under The
Gospel Of GRACE, Today = "BY" The ONE Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:5;
1 Corinthians 12:13)......At ALL Costs!!
NO "such thing as TWO baptismS" Today, Under
God's PURE GRACE!
Amen?

One Faith
One Baptism.
One Spirit
One Salvation
One Body
One Lord


Reader..

Sometimes the way to rightly divide a verse, is to find out..>"what is the end result", of that Verse.....where does it lead me. ?????

So, if i read a verse that says...."Baptized INTO CHRIST"....>"Risen WITH CHRIST"....

Where does this lead? What has happened ????....what is the END RESULT that explains the verse's context ??

So, where does "baptized into the Spirit".>"by the Spirit".......LEAD you to BECOME ?

Its leads to this....>"IN CHRIST".......>"A New Creation".......>"ONE WITH GOD". "SON of GOD"...."Temple of the Holy Spirit".

So, can WATER cause THAT end result?.........NO it can not.......so, when we read "baptized into Christ', we understand that this has to be a Baptism IN the Holy Spirit, as the END RESULT is that the person becomes = "ONE WITH GOD"........And God is A Spirit.
So, only the SPIRIT of GOD, can cause you to become BAPTIZED, Spiritually, so that you end up, BORN AGAIN Spiritually, "in Christ"......"a new Creation"....>"ONE with God"..

Water can't cause this to happen, as water is just water.... and nothing more.
 

Davy

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No, if unknown tongues per chapter 14 per Paul was a gift, then Paul would have listed it with the others.

That statement of course does not make sense, reveals the state of confusion you are in. There is no such thing as "unknown tongues", not even in God's written Word! Paul was speaking of known languages of the world with "divers kinds of tongues" (Greek glossa).

You need to read chapter 14 carefully. It tells you that unknown tongues is your human spirit praying.

No, what you're actually asking me, is to throw away what Apostle Paul actually said, and instead believe what you... say, and the interpretation of those false prophets you listen to. My Heavenly Father and His Son would stop opening up His Word to me by The Holy Spirit if I did that, and I'd be in the same confused state you are in.

You obviously need to study Acts 2 about the cloven tongue that was spoken on Pentecost for yourself, and stop listening to men tell you what it says.

Here's a little lesson for you, and those false prophets you heed about what The Holy Spirit is for. In 1 Corinthians 12, Apostle Paul described the various 'manifestations' of The Holy Spirit as 'divided' to the brethren. He showed not everyone is given the same gift. And when he mentioned "divers kinds of tongues" he was speaking of known languages of the world, and not a single unknown tongue, and definitely not gibberish.

Furthermore, Jesus told His servants that He would send us The Holy Spirit Comforter in the Book of John, and that He would teach us ALL THINGS (John 14:26). Want to know how that links to the Oil He mentioned in His parable of the ten virgins of Matthew 25?

In Pentecostal style churches, that Oil in the lamps of the ten virgins they say represents not just The Holy Spirit, but particularly the idea of speaking in an 'unknown tongue'. And they teach that if one doesn't speak in the unknown tongue, then they don't have the presence of The Holy Spirit! I know this because I have dealt with those in those type churches personally.

But the real Message Lord Jesus was showing about the Oil, is about UNDERSTANDING IN HIS WORD by The Holy Spirit, and THAT is what the Oil represents in that parable. How?...

Firstly, He said The Holy Spirit Comforter He would send would teach us all things. And guess what Apostle Paul said that above all the gifts, charity and what else were the most important? Prophesying. And Paul was not talking about standing up in church and speaking gibberish by that idea to prophesy. To prophesy means to teach with easily understood words...

1 Cor 14:1
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

KJV


The very thing of confusion you claim, is easily understood as false, simply by keeping to what Apostle Paul actually said...

1 Cor 14:3-9
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

Is Apostle Paul pointing to an 'unknown tongue' with the above statement? No, Paul is pointing to speaking in known languages the people present can understand, by that, they receive edification, exhortation, and comfort.


4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.


Clearly in the above, Paul is not pointing to the cloven tongue of Pentecost, but to a foreign language no one present in the church can understand. That person with that foreign language would only be edifying himself, because only he and God would understand what he was saying in that foreign language.


Paul then shows that to prophesy means speaking easily understood language that the whole church can understand and thus be edified. To prophesy means TO TEACH, not to speak an unknown tongue that the majority cannot understand.



5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


There again, Apostle Paul reveals that to prophesy is NOT the idea of being able to speak in many languages (YES... the word "tongues" there is Greek glossa, meaning known languages of the world. Paul is not pointing to an 'unknown tongue' YOU claim is about the one cloven tongue of Acts 2).



6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?


Once again, Paul shows he is speaking of known... languages of the world (it's plural there), and not the cloven tongue of Pentecost. And again, by "prophesying" he is pointing to TEACHING so the whole church can be edified with understanding, i.e., the main purpose for which Jesus said He would send The Holy Spirit Comforter. Further below, Paul is going to confirm beyond all doubt that he was pointing to 'teaching' in known words is what he meant by prophesying...



7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

Pretty simple, if all sounds sounded the same, how would one be able to make a distinction between them?


8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

The trumpet sounded certain tunes to mark commands for battle (still done today in some armies of the world).


9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

KJV

There is Paul's proof that he was pointing to KNOWN languages of the world there, and NOT some unknown tongue that certainly is not easily understood!

So if you want to be among the five wise virgins of Matthew 25 when Lord Jesus comes, then you had best start studying God's Word by asking Him for 'UNDERSTANDING' in His Word, instead of worshiping signs and miracles. The five wise virgins carried a spare vessel of The Oil with them, which means they had an 'understanding' the five foolish virgins did not have.

And you want to know one my greatest proofs that those fooled into the speaking with tongues movement is not what the Oil of Matthew 25 is about? It's simple, because the majority of those I have met that claim to speak the gibberish speech heed men's false doctrine of a Pre-tribulation Rapture theory. I mean, how is it those claim to 'prophesy' by The Holy Spirit and they cannot even stick with the simplicity of Bible Scripture about Christ's timeline for His coming and gathering of His Church? (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27). Even Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 made it plain that Jesus is not coming until after the "man of sin" is revealed, and then He comes to destroy that "man of sin". It's so easy! But the fact that most of those who claim the gibberish speech is the true cloven tongue of Pentecost instead believe they are going to be raptured PRIOR to the great tribulation!
 
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Davy

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Interesting theory but I it's not biblical. And...and...and... That is too specific and isn't in line with the Bible.

Thank you for confirming the state of confusion you are in by another spirit.

Acts 2 is undeniable proof that what was heard on Pentecost was KNOWN LANGUAGES that all who were present heard the Apostles speak.

There is NO event in Acts 2 of one Apostle there speaking gibberish and someone in the crowd claiming to understand and telling the rest of the multitude what was said.
 

CadyandZoe

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If you must be born again, whom is it up to if not you. When Jesus said this in John 3:3 -- "Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God” do you think He was talking in the abstract?
The decision is God's to make. No human being can ever cause themselves to be born again. The birth is a miracle.

Jesus is not talking in the abstract. He is stating a fact. One must be born again if they are to see the kingdom of God. That is a fact. Notice the text, where it says one must be "born from above." The decision is God's and the process is a miracle of God. It isn't our decision and we can do nothing to entice God to act or to help God along.
 

CadyandZoe

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This is not "born again"?...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
True repentance is not the means to becoming born again. True repentance is evidence that one has already been born from above. Only those who have been born from above will repent and become baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
 

Truther

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Not at all.

Here is the final answer.

“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY gospel.” – Romans 2:16

Now, go and find out what "my Gospel" is......as Paul told you 3x, and you can believe its not...get in the water.

How do you know?
Because Paul told you...>"Christ sent me not to water baptize".
Did you see what you just did?

You just taught the sinners to believe the gospels, skip Acts and the born again process, then apply the epistles(letters to the Acts saints) to their non born again selves.

This is mail theft from the saints.

You will be prosecuted for such a conspiracy.

The crime can be found in the heavenly penal code of trespassing and disobeying Acts 2:38.
 

Truther

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And they did. This is why the verses says....>"upon you"....... not IN you.

"upon you"......the Holy Ghost is come.........."upon you".......and the RESULT? = You will be witnesses to me.....everywhere.
See that?
That is the enabling for the ministry........not the being born again.

Remember, Jesus didnt say to them......."Go to Jerusalem, and be born again"...
He said, that something would happen to them, that would cause them to go and become "witnesses"... and that is the enabling power, that is being "called into the ministry", AND being enabled with power from on High. = "upon you".
Pre Acts 1:8, the disciples were powerless. The Holy Ghost is not powerless.
 

Truther

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That statement of course does not make sense, reveals the state of confusion you are in. There is no such thing as "unknown tongues", not even in God's written Word! Paul was speaking of known languages of the world with "divers kinds of tongues" (Greek glossa).



No, what you're actually asking me, is to throw away what Apostle Paul actually said, and instead believe what you... say, and the interpretation of those false prophets you listen to. My Heavenly Father and His Son would stop opening up His Word to me by The Holy Spirit if I did that, and I'd be in the same confused state you are in.

You obviously need to study Acts 2 about the cloven tongue that was spoken on Pentecost for yourself, and stop listening to men tell you what it says.

Here's a little lesson for you, and those false prophets you heed about what The Holy Spirit is for. In 1 Corinthians 12, Apostle Paul described the various 'manifestations' of The Holy Spirit as 'divided' to the brethren. He showed not everyone is given the same gift. And when he mentioned "divers kinds of tongues" he was speaking of known languages of the world, and not a single unknown tongue, and definitely not gibberish.

Furthermore, Jesus told His servants that He would send us The Holy Spirit Comforter in the Book of John, and that He would teach us ALL THINGS (John 14:26). Want to know how that links to the Oil He mentioned in His parable of the ten virgins of Matthew 25?

In Pentecostal style churches, that Oil in the lamps of the ten virgins they say represents not just The Holy Spirit, but particularly the idea of speaking in an 'unknown tongue'. And they teach that if one doesn't speak in the unknown tongue, then they don't have the presence of The Holy Spirit! I know this because I have dealt with those in those type churches personally.

But the real Message Lord Jesus was showing about the Oil, is about UNDERSTANDING IN HIS WORD by The Holy Spirit, and THAT is what the Oil represents in that parable. How?...

Firstly, He said The Holy Spirit Comforter He would send would teach us all things. And guess what Apostle Paul said that above all the gifts, charity and what else were the most important? Prophesying. And Paul was not talking about standing up in church and speaking gibberish by that idea to prophesy. To prophesy means to teach with easily understood words...

1 Cor 14:1
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

KJV


The very thing of confusion you claim, is easily understood as false, simply by keeping to what Apostle Paul actually said...

1 Cor 14:3-9
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

Is Apostle Paul pointing to an 'unknown tongue' with the above statement? No, Paul is pointing to speaking in known languages the people present can understand, by that, they receive edification, exhortation, and comfort.


4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.


Clearly in the above, Paul is not pointing to the cloven tongue of Pentecost, but to a foreign language no one present in the church can understand. That person with that foreign language would only be edifying himself, because only he and God would understand what he was saying in that foreign language.


Paul then shows that to prophesy means speaking easily understood language that the whole church can understand and thus be edified. To prophesy means TO TEACH, not to speak an unknown tongue that the majority cannot understand.



5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


There again, Apostle Paul reveals that to prophesy is NOT the idea of being able to speak in many languages (YES... the word "tongues" there is Greek glossa, meaning known languages of the world. Paul is not pointing to an 'unknown tongue' YOU claim is about the one cloven tongue of Acts 2).



6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?


Once again, Paul shows he is speaking of known... languages of the world (it's plural there), and not the cloven tongue of Pentecost. And again, by "prophesying" he is pointing to TEACHING so the whole church can be edified with understanding, i.e., the main purpose for which Jesus said He would send The Holy Spirit Comforter. Further below, Paul is going to confirm beyond all doubt that he was pointing to 'teaching' in known words is what he meant by prophesying...



7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

Pretty simple, if all sounds sounded the same, how would one be able to make a distinction between them?


8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

The trumpet sounded certain tunes to mark commands for battle (still done today in some armies of the world).


9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

KJV

There is Paul's proof that he was pointing to KNOWN languages of the world there, and NOT some unknown tongue that certainly is not easily understood!

So if you want to be among the five wise virgins of Matthew 25 when Lord Jesus comes, then you had best start studying God's Word by asking Him for 'UNDERSTANDING' in His Word, instead of worshiping signs and miracles. The five wise virgins carried a spare vessel of The Oil with them, which means they had an 'understanding' the five foolish virgins did not have.

And you want to know one my greatest proofs that those fooled into the speaking with tongues movement is not what the Oil of Matthew 25 is about? It's simple, because the majority of those I have met that claim to speak the gibberish speech heed men's false doctrine of a Pre-tribulation Rapture theory. I mean, how is it those claim to 'prophesy' by The Holy Spirit and they cannot even stick with the simplicity of Bible Scripture about Christ's timeline for His coming and gathering of His Church? (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27). Even Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 made it plain that Jesus is not coming until after the "man of sin" is revealed, and then He comes to destroy that "man of sin". It's so easy! But the fact that most of those who claim the gibberish speech is the true cloven tongue of Pentecost instead believe they are going to be raptured PRIOR to the great tribulation!
Okay, I reckon I must post scriptures here...

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Do you speak unto God in unknown tongues?

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;...

Do you edify yourself in unknown tongues?

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues ...

Do you wish you also spoke in unknown tongues as Paul wished for you?

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth,...

Does your human spirit pray?

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people;...

Does God speak to you via tongues?

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:...

Does God signify to unbelievers this way via yourself?

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Do you forbid to speak in unknown tongues.
 

Truther

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True repentance is not the means to becoming born again. True repentance is evidence that one has already been born from above. Only those who have been born from above will repent and become baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Kinda like this?....


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be SAVED without baptism or the Holy Ghost. Then be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost?
 

Davy

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Okay, I reckon I must post scriptures here...

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Do you speak unto God in unknown tongues?

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;...

Do you edify yourself in unknown tongues?

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues ...

Do you wish you also spoke in unknown tongues as Paul wished for you?

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth,...

Does your human spirit pray?

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people;...

Does God speak to you via tongues?

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:...

Does God signify to unbelievers this way via yourself?

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Do you forbid to speak in unknown tongues.

You show that you have no intention of trying to understand what I showed you from Apostle Paul. Therefore, I shake the dust from my feet at you.
 

CadyandZoe

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Kinda like this?....


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be SAVED without baptism or the Holy Ghost. Then be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost?
Is that what I said? I don't think so. The condition requires true, lasting repentance. And true, lasting repentance IS evidence of being born again.
 

Truther

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You show that you have no intention of trying to understand what I showed you from Apostle Paul. Therefore, I shake the dust from my feet at you.
I showed you what Paul said and meant instead.

You should stop wallowing in the dust.
 

Truther

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Dec 2, 2019
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Is that what I said? I don't think so. The condition requires true, lasting repentance. And true, lasting repentance IS evidence of being born again.
Yep, you said it again here.

You even have your repent meter out today.
 
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