Jesus IS God in the flesh!!

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APAK

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Hi @Angelina: Another verse:

"But unto the Son he saith,

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:

A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." (Hebrews 1.8)
So is this another verse about 'incarnation' then? Even the most serious scholarly Trinitarian would dismiss most of your verses as non-Trinitarian support.

Is this another verse that you cannot explain? I would not feel too bad though. I have found that the casual illiterate Trinitarian Bible student cannot explain these type of scripture either.

They just get 'a high' or feel good feeling by listing these types of verses all day long, like a type of spiritual virtue signaling to each other, for approval, verses that speak to their narrative and imaginations of who they think the Father, his Spirit and his Son are. They reshape and ball them all up into one non-descript and non-Biblical god.

Let me know if you want me to help you out here.

APAK
 

amigo de christo

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So is this another verse about 'incarnation' then? Even the most serious scholarly Trinitarian would dismiss most of your verses as non-Trinitarian support.

Is this another verse that you cannot explain? I would not feel too bad though. I have found that the casual illiterate Trinitarian Bible student cannot explain these type of scripture either.

They just get 'a high' or feel good feeling by listing these types of verses all day long, like a type of spiritual virtue signaling to each other, for approval, verses that speak to their narrative and imaginations of who they think the Father, his Spirit and his Son are. They reshape and ball them all up into one non-descript and non-Biblical god.

Let me know if you want me to help you out here.

APAK
I have lived two lives . One was death and the other life . I choose the latter , LIFE .
No wonder JESUS said unless you become converted as SMALL CHILDREN ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of GOD .
He never said , lest ye be as the wise scholars . FOR GOOD REASON . OUR WISE SCHOLARS OF TODAY , SEEM TO BE WAY OFF ON THE SIMPLE TRUTH .
 
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Cooper

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The bible says Christ is the son of God, and one thing I've learned on these boards, if someone wants to believe false doctrin badly enough, they will find a way to make it appear the bible backs up that doctrin, even if it does not.

I choose to believe God when he tells us simply, "This (Jesus) is my son, in which I am well pleased" over long winded creations by man that try to prove otherwise.
The flesh was Marys, but the invisible spirit was God in Him. One God manifest in Christ Jesus.
.
 

tigger 2

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Hebrews 1:8

There is good evidence that the proper translation of Heb. 1:8 (as well as Ps. 45:6) should be “your throne is God forever” or “God is your throne forever.”

If we look at some respected trinitarian authorities, we also see a preference for the “God is thy throne” rendering.

Oxford professor and famed trinitarian Bible translator, Dr. James Moffatt, has been described as “probably the greatest biblical scholar of our day.” His Bible translation renders Heb. 1:8 as:

“God is thy throne for ever and ever.”

University of Cambridge professor and noted New Testament language scholar, Dr. C. F. D. Moule reluctantly admits that Heb. 1:8 may conceivably be “construed so as to mean Thy throne is God” - p. 32, An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek, Cambridge University Press, 1990 printing.

An American Translation (Smith-Goodspeed), renders it: “God is your throne....”

And The Bible in Living English (Byington) reads: “God is your throne....”

Noted trinitarian NT scholar Dr. William Barclay, in his translation of the New Testament, has also rendered Hebrews 1:8 as : “God is your throne for ever and ever.”

Famed trinitarian (Southern Baptist) New Testament Greek scholar Dr. A. T. Robertson acknowledges that either “Thy throne, O God” or “God is thy throne” may be proper renderings: “Either makes good sense.” - Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. v, p. 339.

The American Standard Version (ASV), the Revised Standard Version (RSV), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), and The New English Bible (NEB) have provided honest alternate readings to the traditional trinitarian rendering of the KJV at Hebrews 1:8. These alternate readings (found in footnotes) agree with Dr. Moffatt’s, Dr. Barclay’s, Smith-Goodspeed’s, Byington’s, and the New World Translation’s renderings of this scripture (“God is your throne”).

Even Young’s Concise Bible Commentary (written by the noted trinitarian author of Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible) admits: “[Heb. 1:8] may be justly rendered ‘God is thy throne ....’”

Quoted From Ps. 45

In addition to these admissions by trinitarian translators concerning Heb. 1:8 itself, we need to look back at the Old Testament Hebrew scripture (Ps. 45:6) that Paul was quoting when he wrote Heb. 1:8.

The RSV renders it as “Your Divine throne” and a footnote provides these alternate
readings: “Or your throne is a throne of God, or Thy throne, O God.’”

The NEB says: “Your throne is like God’s throne.”

The Holy Scriptures (JPS version) says: “Thy throne given of God.”

The Bible in Living English (Byington) says: “God is your throne.”

The Message has: "Your throne is God's throne, ever and always.”

The Good News Bible (GNB), Bible, renders it: “The kingdom that God has given you will last
forever and ever.” - ABS, 1976.

The Good News Translation (GNT): “The kingdom that God has given you will last forever and
ever.” – ABS, 1992.

The REB has: “God has enthroned you for all eternity.”

The NJB gives us: “your throne is from God.”

We also see the following statement by respected trinitarian scholars in a footnote for this passage:
“45:6 O God. Possibly the king’s throne is called God’s throne because he is God’s appointed regent. But it is also possible that the king himself is addressed as ‘god.’” - Ps. 45:6 f.n. in the NIV Study Bible. [Also see footnote in the NAB, St. Joseph ed.]

In addition to the above renderings by many respected translators (most of whom are trinitarian), we have the statement by one of the greatest scholars of Biblical Hebrew of all time, H. F. W. Gesenius. In his famous and highly respected Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Gesenius renders Ps. 45:6, “thy throne shall be a divine throne.”

Just the admission by so many trinitarian translators (above) that Heb. 1:8 may be honestly translated as it is in the NWT makes any insistence by other trinitarians that this scripture is acceptable evidence for a trinity doctrine completely invalid!
 
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APAK

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Hebrews 1:8

There is good evidence that the proper translation of Heb. 1:8 (as well as Ps. 45:6) should be “your throne is God forever” or “God is your throne forever.”

If we look at some respected trinitarian authorities, we also see a preference for the “God is thy throne” rendering.

Oxford professor and famed trinitarian Bible translator, Dr. James Moffatt, has been described as “probably the greatest biblical scholar of our day.” His Bible translation renders Heb. 1:8 as:

“God is thy throne for ever and ever.”

University of Cambridge professor and noted New Testament language scholar, Dr. C. F. D. Moule reluctantly admits that Heb. 1:8 may conceivably be “construed so as to mean Thy throne is God” - p. 32, An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek, Cambridge University Press, 1990 printing.

An American Translation (Smith-Goodspeed), renders it: “God is your throne....”

And The Bible in Living English (Byington) reads: “God is your throne....”

Noted trinitarian NT scholar Dr. William Barclay, in his translation of the New Testament, has also rendered Hebrews 1:8 as : “God is your throne for ever and ever.”

Famed trinitarian (Southern Baptist) New Testament Greek scholar Dr. A. T. Robertson acknowledges that either “Thy throne, O God” or “God is thy throne” may be proper renderings: “Either makes good sense.” - Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. v, p. 339.

The American Standard Version (ASV), the Revised Standard Version (RSV), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), and The New English Bible (NEB) have provided honest alternate readings to the traditional trinitarian rendering of the KJV at Hebrews 1:8. These alternate readings (found in footnotes) agree with Dr. Moffatt’s, Dr. Barclay’s, Smith-Goodspeed’s, Byington’s, and the New World Translation’s renderings of this scripture (“God is your throne”).

Even Young’s Concise Bible Commentary (written by the noted trinitarian author of Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible) admits: “[Heb. 1:8] may be justly rendered ‘God is thy throne ....’”

Quoted From Ps. 45

In addition to these admissions by trinitarian translators concerning Heb. 1:8 itself, we need to look back at the Old Testament Hebrew scripture (Ps. 45:6) that Paul was quoting when he wrote Heb. 1:8.

The RSV renders it as “Your Divine throne” and a footnote provides these alternate
readings: “Or your throne is a throne of God, or Thy throne, O God.’”

The NEB says: “Your throne is like God’s throne.”

The Holy Scriptures (JPS version) says: “Thy throne given of God.”

The Bible in Living English (Byington) says: “God is your throne.”

The Message has: "Your throne is God's throne, ever and always.”

The Good News Bible (GNB), Bible, renders it: “The kingdom that God has given you will last
forever and ever.” - ABS, 1976.

The Good News Translation (GNT): “The kingdom that God has given you will last forever and
ever.” – ABS, 1992.

The REB has: “God has enthroned you for all eternity.”

The NJB gives us: “your throne is from God.”

We also see the following statement by respected trinitarian scholars in a footnote for this passage:
“45:6 O God. Possibly the king’s throne is called God’s throne because he is God’s appointed regent. But it is also possible that the king himself is addressed as ‘god.’” - Ps. 45:6 f.n. in the NIV Study Bible. [Also see footnote in the NAB, St. Joseph ed.]

In addition to the above renderings by many respected translators (most of whom are trinitarian), we have the statement by one of the greatest scholars of Biblical Hebrew of all time, H. F. W. Gesenius. In his famous and highly respected Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Gesenius renders Ps. 45:6, “thy throne shall be a divine throne.”

Just the admission by so many trinitarian translators (above) that Heb. 1:8 may be honestly translated as it is in the NWT makes any insistence by other trinitarians that this scripture is acceptable evidence for a trinity doctrine completely invalid!
Tigger.....Your post is very good and informative, and correct as I have understood it over the years. Some folks on this site should study you commentary of Hebrews 1:8 and validate it for themselves; only if they are really interested in the truth and life. Unfortunately many are not, or not ready to 'dive' into it.

APAK
 

APAK

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I have lived two lives . One was death and the other life . I choose the latter , LIFE .
No wonder JESUS said unless you become converted as SMALL CHILDREN ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of GOD .
He never said , lest ye be as the wise scholars . FOR GOOD REASON . OUR WISE SCHOLARS OF TODAY , SEEM TO BE WAY OFF ON THE SIMPLE TRUTH .
I do not see your need to intervene (for others I guess) when the truth is at stake, unless you can speak to my posts directly in this thread. And yet you have not done so thus far specifically on my replies and my understanding of selected scripture.

Yes, the way for eternal life is knowing the way and the truth, indeed. Although possessing this spiritual truth for eternal life is for many elusive. Without study and without true holy spiritual support one can easily be swayed by seductive and false teachers. When there is obvious ignorance and err in thought and writings about scripture that distort and conceal the truth that leads not to eternal life it should be exposed and challenged. And suggesting/implying and therefore insinuating that I say one needs to be a Bible scholar to know the truth is completely a false argument and is never the point regarding the truth that is given by the one true God, the Father - of his Christ for us.

APAK