Jesus is Michael

[JohnPaul]

Consider the historical evidence as well as scriptural evidence.

Short - Michael The Archangel [X2] - Appendix 2 - The Short Historical List Of Those Who Taught Jesus Is Michael : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Long and detailed - Michael The Archangel [11] - Messengers Of The LORD & The Reformation & Etc : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

If you need more let me know, I can provide the whole material.

Jesus is indeed the lead messenger for the Father.

I'm sorry I cannot accept Arch Angel Michael is Jesus, I never heard of this till I read it here, Jesus is the Son of God whereas Michael is an Arch Angel, never in my entire life have I heard such things, not from when I did my catechism till present time reading the Bible myself and speaking to others.

I don't need more proof.

 

[kcnalp]

Satan would LOVE to steal our Savior Jesus from us!

 

[Christ4Me]

Where are the direct statements? Please produce one direct statement from either Jehovah or his Son in the Bible, that they are one and the same God.....just one will do.

Jesus said Abraham had seen Him in His day before His incarnation as the prophesied Son of Man and even went on to declare that He is God as the I AM before Abraham.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

That is why they took up stones to kill Him for blasphemy. That is why below they condemned Him to the cross and it was for blasphemy.

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. 66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

How are those 2 scriptural references for direct statements from Him?

Does God have a God?

Does a human son has a human father? Then the Son as God has the Father as God.

 

[ReChoired]

I'm sorry I cannot accept Arch Angel Michael is Jesus, I never heard of this till I read it here, Jesus is the Son of God whereas Michael is an Arch Angel, never in my entire life have I heard such things, not from when I did my catechism till present time reading the Bible myself and speaking to others.

I don't need more proof.

I do accept the evidences in scripture. I always love more proof, and it is ever deeper year by year.

Are you Catholic?

I used to be.

 

[ReChoired]

NOWHERE is Michael called our Savior! Jesus is my Savior! You're trying to steal our Savior from us! ONLY Jesus is our Savior!
Acts 4:10-12 (NKJV)
10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.' 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

No Michael? Hmm

Jesus has many names, titles and designations. Do you agree? As for instance:

1. Immanuel - Emmanuel
2. The last Adam
3. David
4. Israel
5. Shiloh

6. Prince
7. King
8. God
9. Man

10. Prophet
11. Priest (& High priest)

12. Servant
13. Master

14. Son
15. Father (not the Person/Being God the Father)

Etc, etc

Why then is it so difficult to include the name (Michael) and office (Archangel)?

 

[Keiw]

Jesus comes With His angels and the Archangel Michael, whom takes irders from Jesus and commands the angels under him with his voice.
The whole Bible is about the Savior, Messiah, Son of God. He is called Immanuel = God with us. He is called LORD throughout the Bible. His name is Jesus and all through the NT, He is referred to as such. Yet in Rev. 12 you think that his real identity is revealed (yet hidden throughout the entire Bible) and now we see his true identity for a brief moment, Michael.
I would believe that Dwayne Johnson is the Tooth Fairy before I would believe that. This is a dishonor, by degrading Jesus, Who is above all angels. This is why you do not worship Jesus. You will bow a knee someday to Him and apologize for your foolishness.

I do bow to my king. But he is not YHWH the only true God. Listening to Jesus, believing Jesus and obeying Jesus are what his followers do-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--He is the way--not dogma.

 

[Keiw]

You have no relationship with the Holy Spirit, because you think He is a force. Did not Gid livenin the Old Temple? Do you not understand that the New Temple is within the believer and it is God who lives in us. The Holy Spirit, our Helper, THE Comforter, Whom loves us, baptizes us, sanctifies us, edifies us, guides and teaches us, speaks and listens to us, gives us gifts, glorifies Jesus, convicts us and when you sin, He is grieved. It is likely that He is grieved since you deny Him.

Then why does the holy spirit get 0. He doesnt have a throne, He doesnt have a name. He doesnt get a kingship. He isnt mentioned in the many important passages that God and Jesus are mentioned-Why?

 

[Keiw]

Anyone left behind and alive on earth after the Great Tribulation will be Christians. Partly Jewish converts and any folks that have not yet taken the mark of the beast and believe after they see Jesus. You must be born again to see and enter into the kingdom of heaven.
This is transformation is confirmed by the Holy Spirit. We are to be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Dishonor the Son and you dishonor the Father. Failing to acknowledge the Holy Spirit as God, as a person is a Denial the Holy Spirit. I don't think that is blasphemy, but it holds consequences. If you really believe you must wait intilbafyer the 1000 years to find out if your are saved, that belief may be granted to you - wait. I'll take the high road.

144k are all Jews from the 12 tribes as it specifically states.

That is symbolism-Israel religion is cutoff-Matt 23:38--spiritual Israel is now Gods chosen from every nation.

 

[Keiw]

I take it you did not go to the link to read the scriptures.

Jesus is the God men had seen in the O.T. and not the Father.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Although Jesus testified above that no man had seen God the Father at any time, but He did as God because He was from above and not of the earth as other men were.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Jesus said that scriptures testify of Himself and that Moses had written specifically about Himself.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life....

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Scriptural proof that the Lord Jesus is that Jehovah that had spoken to Moses for why Jesus Christ had said, Moses had written of Himself as the God named Jehovah in the scriptures for having appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob that men had seen in the O.T. .

Exodus 6:1Then the Lord said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

Jesus said Abraham had seen Him in His day before His incarnation as the prophesied Son of Man.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The Lord appeared to Abraham in Genesis 12:7, Genesis 17:1, & Genesis 18:1-8 was when He did eat & drank what Abraham had prepared for Him.

The Lord appeared to Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 & Genesis 26:24

The Lord appeared to Jacob & they had wrestled face to face & Jacob still lived for why Jacob had called that place Penuel in verse 30 of Genesis 32:24-30

The Lord appeared to Moses in Exodus 3:2, Exodus 3:15-17, Exodus 4:1-8 & Exodus 6:1-4

This is why Jesus is the Lord Jehovah that men has seen in the O.T. & not the Father.

Every spot in OT Where GOD or LORD all capitols = YHWH--not Jesus-- It says YHWH,s angel at Ex 3:2

 

[Keiw]

There wouldn't be any point in each having separate names if they were both the same. Also it isn't true. The one Daniel speaks to in Daniel is the same appearance of Jesus Christ in Revelation 1.

But

WHY DID IT TAKE HIM SO LONG TO GET THERE!? WHY

Because he had to wait for MICHAEL, because he was blocked off by the Prince of Persia.


These are two separate beings

He was Jesus as a mortal. Do you understand Rev 1:1--A revelation of Jesus Christ which gave to him. See two separate beings-one is God, one is Jesus.

 

[Keiw]

I was asking, according to scripture (Isaiah 8:20 KJB), for your text that the Son was the one whom the Father created all "other" (your words) things. What text in the bible says that please, is what I am asking for. I know of no such text.

Not in error filled trinity translations. The being who was sent speaks at prov 8= Gods master worker, he tells you there he was created. Collosians 1:15--the firstborn of all creation.

 

[Enoch111]

All you are proving is that you can copy and paste. Michael is not Jesus by any stretch of imagination. You're making it up!

Right. Some groups or individuals simply manufacture their theology out of thin air. I'm sure Michael the Archangel is rather upset that some idiots mistake him for Jesus, thus making the creature equal to the Creator.

 

[Keiw]

Actually, no. The text does not say 'first created', but rather:

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" - Colossians 1:15 KJB

"ος εστιν εικων του θεου του αορατου πρωτοτοκος πασης κτισεως" - Colossians 1:15 GNT TR

Prototokos does not ever mean first created.

It is even translated into English, from Cyril of Alexandria, Tom. V. (As "firstborn of every creature") -https://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/cyril_against_nestorius_05_book5.htm

The term "firstborn" in that context simply means Jesus has the preeminence over all creation:

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." - Colossians 1:18 KJB

Paul defined the word.

You can twist it into anything you want. He was created.

 

[Keiw]

You are in error.

Proverbs 8 does not use the word "created" in all of its text.

verse 22--Produced me as the beginning of his way( creation) verse 24 brought forth with labor pains

 

[Keiw]

Can you provide a single text from scripture (Isaiah 8:20) which says that even 1 of the "hundred and forty and four thousand" (symbolic number) die before Jesus returns?

Rev 14:3= the first ressurection-- Its a literal number. God does not need billions of kings sitting on thrones beside Jesus. Those remaining on earth get changed in the twinkling of an eye during the tribulation.

 

[Keiw]

Where in the OT (Gen. to Mal.), does any text say that "no man has ever seen God"? I request the specific OT text please (Isaiah 8:20).

John 1:18

 

[ReChoired]

Then why does the holy spirit get 0. He doesnt have a throne, He doesnt have a name. He doesnt get a kingship. He isnt mentioned in the many important passages that God and Jesus are mentioned-Why?

Are you sure?

Doesn't the Holy Spirit take up the throne of the heart, as like with Christ in Isaiah 11:2, 61:1, The Spirit of the LORD God is "upon me".

Isn't the Holy Spirit to rule and govern as Lord and King over the heart? Wasn't Jesus "led" by the Spirit into the wilderness?

Are you sure the Holy Spirit is not present in those verses you are thinking of? If the word "Christ" is mentioned, that speaks to the Person/Being that Jesus was anointed of. If even the word Christ or Messiah is not directly mentioned, the Holy Spirit is still present in those verses, being the Eternal Witness who saw those events and inspired them to be written by the person writing, etc. In other words, when you read scripture, it is seeing through the eyes of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Keiw]

That sounds like Kingdom Hall poison.

Its in your bible to. You arent taught truth-100% fact--LORD all capitols is YHWH--Jesus is Lord not all capitols proving its your error not believing bible truth. You probably dont even know-Every spot in the OT where GOD or LORD all capitols the name-YHWH(Jehovah) belongs. wicked men took it out and replaced it with GOD or LORD. Nearly 6800 spots. They had no right. Then the ones who didnt have enough love for God to put his name back had the audacity to condemn the ones who did put it back--out of darkness they condemn it.

 

[Keiw]

Are you sure?

Doesn't the Holy Spirit take up the throne of the heart, as like with Christ in Isaiah 11:2, 61:1, The Spirit of the LORD God is "upon me".

Isn't the Holy Spirit to rule and govern as Lord and King over the heart? Wasn't Jesus "led" by the Spirit into the wilderness?

Are you sure the Holy Spirit is not present in those verses you are thinking of? If the word "Christ" is mentioned, that speaks to the Person/Being that Jesus was anointed of. If even the word Christ or Messiah is not directly mentioned, the Holy Spirit is still present in those verses, being the Eternal Witness who saw those events and inspired them to be written by the person writing, etc.

every living being has a name--not the holy spirit. In writings about the holy spirit it says most times mentioned it is not as a living being. God inspired his word.
John 17:3-- Jesus assures one must know the one who sent him=Father as the only true God and know Jesus to get eternal life--Why not know the holy spirit as well to get it?

 

[ReChoired]

Rev 14:3= the first ressurection-- Its a literal number. God does not need billions of kings sitting on thrones beside Jesus. Those remaining on earth get changed in the twinkling of an eye during the tribulation.

Revelation 14:3 I read of "redeemed" not "resurrected". A group is to be alive at Jesus' second Advent, and they are to be "redeemed" from the earth without seeing death. Again, please produce 1 verse which states that the 144k need a resurrection.

The 144k is in contrast to the other number, 200, 000, 000 (Revelation 9:16). John only "heard" their numbers, not saw their numbers. Heard deals with ears, and ears deal with parables or symbols.

It is not "literal" as meaning naturally only 144k individuals.

Even the 200, 000, 000 is symbolic. Do you know what it represents? I do with scriptures.