Jesus=The Man God Became.

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101G

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I suggest you re read my post 14 and the post I was repling to, then you will understand what I was saying.
First thanks for the reply, but what I was concern about
"as a man he could only die for his sins"
which I responded with read my Post #15.

I agree that Jesus was made in the "LIKENESS" of men but "took on" that nature that he could die from that nature.

if there is something else that i missed please point it out to me.

thanks in advance
 

101G

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God in Three Persons is strongly Biblical; Matt. 28; John 13 thru 17; Romans 8; John's First Epistle, etc.
first thanks for the reply, but where in matt. 28 or in John 13-17 there are three persons?

please post your verses to this assessment.
 

101G

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addressing the OP only, John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God".

that should answer the OP.

PICJAG
 

farouk

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I have and I see only one God diversified, hence the reason why I asked for the verses.
False doctrine, Sir. Ephesians 4.10 makes it clear that the Spirit of God is not simply an influence or an aspect but a Person, Who can be grieved.

The end of Matthew 28 has the baptismal formula in Three Persons, not influences or aspects. In John's Gospel, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all active overwhelmingly clearly in the work of redemption. John's First Epistle demonstrates this also.
 

101G

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False doctrine, Sir. Ephesians 4.10 makes it clear that the Spirit of God is not simply an influence or an aspect but a Person, Who can be grieved.

The end of Matthew 28 has the baptismal formula in Three Persons, not influences or aspects. In John's Gospel, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all active overwhelmingly clearly in the work of redemption. John's First Epistle demonstrates this also.
First thanks for the reply, second, NOT for an argument, but for edification, ok. "Three person?" or is that "three Titles" of the SAME ONE PERSON.

may I ask you a question? "what's the Personal Name of the Father?", and "what's the Personal Name of the Son?", and "what's the Personal Name of the Holy Spirit?"

let's take this one step at a time ok.

looking to hear from you.
 

farouk

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First thanks for the reply, second, NOT for an argument, but for edification, ok. "Three person?" or is that "three Titles" of the SAME ONE PERSON.

may I ask you a question? "what's the Personal Name of the Father?", and "what's the Personal Name of the Son?", and "what's the Personal Name of the Holy Spirit?"

let's take this one step at a time ok.

looking to hear from you.
Matthew 28: '...the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost...' Three Persons; one Name.
 

101G

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Matthew 28: '...the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost...' Three Persons; one Name.
if they are separate and distinct why do they have the same PERSONAL NAME then?

May I make a suggestion. what if there is Just one Person who is diversified as the offspring or the "ANOTHER" and have the same NAME.

understand, three person having the same NAME is confusion, and God is not the author of Confusion.
 

101G

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Jesus, the one who layeth the foundation of the earth

Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

STOP, who "layeth the foundation of the earth", is it the "Lord" or the "LORD", well let's see.

Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Isaiah 48:13 "Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
the "First" and the "Last" "laid the foundation of the earth", so who is the First and the Last? let the bible speak, Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

well according to the scriptures it's the Lord JESUS who is LORD....... :)

let's make sure,

Isaiah 51:13 "And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?

THY "MAKER", ok who "made" everything?, let the bible speak, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

well. well, well, all things come right back to JESUS. yes Jesus is the Maker, Jesus is the one who "laid the foundations of the earth"

don't argue with me, argue with your bible.

PICJAG
 

Windmillcharge

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First thanks for the reply, but what I was concern about

which I responded with read my Post #15.

I agree that Jesus was made in the "LIKENESS" of men but "took on" that nature that he could die from that nature.

if there is something else that i missed please point it out to me.

thanks in advance

You cannot have understood my posts or the thread. Jesus is God and he became man, in techincal language it is called the hypostatic union.
Jesus is the Godman.
I was pointing out if Jesus was only man, he could only die for his own sins, not that he was only man.
 
B

brakelite

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Jesus, the Son of God, became flesh to reveal His Father. His confirmed Sonship (through His works and resurrection)confirms His divinity. Not another God...not the same God...but a different personality altogether having the attributes of God thus equal with God in all things except in rank, for it pleased God (the Father) that in Him (the Son) should all fulness (of the Godhead) dwell, and through this Sonship has inherited a better name (God) than the angels. As God therefore, He has authority to judge and to give immortality, but only because He received these things from His Father. Christ was not created. He is begotten. This is why He is God's Son (Hebrews 1:2). This is also why the Father is God and the Son is God yet they each have a personal identity of their own. Christ is the express image of God‘s person (Hebrews 1:3). This is because He is God from God. He is God‘s person (personality) made visible. In Christ we behold God in the person of the Son. Here though is where we need to remember the words of Jesus contained in that beautiful prayer to His Father.
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3
Christ refers to His Father as the only true God. He did not say though that He, as God‘s Son, was not God, neither did He say that only His Father is God or only His Father should be called God. He is simply referring to His Father as the great source of all. Christ is also saying of Himself that He, as a Son, is a distinct individual from His Father.
It was the same when the young man came to Jesus saying to Him Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? (Mark 10:17). Jesus replied
Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Mark 10:18
Jesus was not denying His own divinity. It was just as though He was saying to this man ―If you accept that I am good – and it is true that only God is good - then are you acknowledging me as whom I say I am – the Son of God? The Scriptures also tell us
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:5-6
If Christ had been less than God or someone other than God, then He could not have considered Himself as equal with God. This equality is the result of His Sonship with God. Here again we see two divine personalities. One personality is God while the other is Christ Jesus. Here we are also told that Christ, in His pre-existence, was in the ―form of God. As well as in character, this would be in outward appearance. This is why God could say to Him, (the Son Jesus) Let us make man in our image, after our likeness (Genesis 1:26). The Greek word translated form is morphe. The only other place it is used in the Bible is where Mark wrote that Jesus, on the road to Emmaus, ―appeared in another form [morphe] to two of His followers (Mark 16:12, see also Luke 24:16). William Tyndale translated this verse in Philippians as
Which beynge in the shape of God and thought it not robbery to be equall with God. Philippians 2:6 Tyndale‘s translation 1525
God must have a shape. If He didn‘t have a shape then there would have been no point in Jesus saying
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. John 5:37
Jesus identified Himself with the one true God. This is when He said to the Jews
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58
Christ was indeed the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. (Exodus 3:14-15) He was the God of the Jews. He was their spiritual rock that was with them in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:1-4). He is Jehovah (Isaiah 12:2). Now though, in human flesh, He was standing before His people as their God. Unfortunately they failed to recognise Him as such. They would only have applied this appellation (the I AM) to God – and they certainly did not regard Jesus as such. This is why the Scriptures record that they took up stones to throw at Him (see John 8:59). It is also why John wrote in the prologue to His Gospel
He came unto his own, and his own received him not. John 1:11
It was Philip who said to Jesus Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus could have replied saying ―Sorry, I cannot do that Philip. No one can see the Father and live. Instead He replied
Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. John 14:9-10
Jesus seems to be surprised. The disciples had confessed Him to be the Son of God (Matthew 14:33, 16:16, John 1:49). They also knew He claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 16:16-17, John 5:18, John 9:35). They knew too that this was what the Scribes and Pharisees held against Him (John 5:18). They would even have known that this had been the testimony of God Himself (Matthew 3:17, 17:5). They still though, so it seems, had failed to recognise His true identity. It was just as though Jesus was saying to them, Are you saying that even though I have been with you for over 3 years you still don‘t know who I really am? Christ then said
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. John 14:11
Christ‘s words are again the reiteration of the great truth that He spoke to the Jews when He said
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
 

101G

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You cannot have understood my posts or the thread. Jesus is God and he became man, in techincal language it is called the hypostatic union.
Jesus is the Godman.
I was pointing out if Jesus was only man, he could only die for his own sins, not that he was only man.
first thanks for the reply, second, you did not understand what I was saying.
third Jesus was in likeness as a man. there is no hypostatic union. not in flesh. that flesh he took on Identified who was in it. for the flesh profit NOTHING. God put on a cloke, a vesture, and that NATURAL flesh was done away with at the resurrection.

PICJAG.
 

justbyfaith

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Read those chapters and they will stand out amazingly clearly.

End of discussion.

When reading those chapters, always consider the reality that God is one

Jas 2:19, Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Deu 6:4, Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:


and in meditation consider how the relation of different Persons amounts to them being the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God

1Co 12:4, Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5, And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6, And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
 

justbyfaith

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Jesus, the Son of God, became flesh to reveal His Father. His confirmed Sonship (through His works and resurrection)confirms His divinity. Not another God...not the same God...but a different personality altogether having the attributes of God thus equal with God in all things except in rank, for it pleased God (the Father) that in Him (the Son) should all fulness (of the Godhead) dwell, and through this Sonship has inherited a better name (God) than the angels. As God therefore, He has authority to judge and to give immortality, but only because He received these things from His Father. Christ was not created. He is begotten. This is why He is God's Son (Hebrews 1:2). This is also why the Father is God and the Son is God yet they each have a personal identity of their own. Christ is the express image of God‘s person (Hebrews 1:3). This is because He is God from God. He is God‘s person (personality) made visible. In Christ we behold God in the person of the Son. Here though is where we need to remember the words of Jesus contained in that beautiful prayer to His Father.
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3
Christ refers to His Father as the only true God. He did not say though that He, as God‘s Son, was not God, neither did He say that only His Father is God or only His Father should be called God. He is simply referring to His Father as the great source of all. Christ is also saying of Himself that He, as a Son, is a distinct individual from His Father.
It was the same when the young man came to Jesus saying to Him Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? (Mark 10:17). Jesus replied
Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Mark 10:18
Jesus was not denying His own divinity. It was just as though He was saying to this man ―If you accept that I am good – and it is true that only God is good - then are you acknowledging me as whom I say I am – the Son of God? The Scriptures also tell us
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:5-6
If Christ had been less than God or someone other than God, then He could not have considered Himself as equal with God. This equality is the result of His Sonship with God. Here again we see two divine personalities. One personality is God while the other is Christ Jesus. Here we are also told that Christ, in His pre-existence, was in the ―form of God. As well as in character, this would be in outward appearance. This is why God could say to Him, (the Son Jesus) Let us make man in our image, after our likeness (Genesis 1:26). The Greek word translated form is morphe. The only other place it is used in the Bible is where Mark wrote that Jesus, on the road to Emmaus, ―appeared in another form [morphe] to two of His followers (Mark 16:12, see also Luke 24:16). William Tyndale translated this verse in Philippians as
Which beynge in the shape of God and thought it not robbery to be equall with God. Philippians 2:6 Tyndale‘s translation 1525
God must have a shape. If He didn‘t have a shape then there would have been no point in Jesus saying
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. John 5:37
Jesus identified Himself with the one true God. This is when He said to the Jews
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58
Christ was indeed the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. (Exodus 3:14-15) He was the God of the Jews. He was their spiritual rock that was with them in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:1-4). He is Jehovah (Isaiah 12:2). Now though, in human flesh, He was standing before His people as their God. Unfortunately they failed to recognise Him as such. They would only have applied this appellation (the I AM) to God – and they certainly did not regard Jesus as such. This is why the Scriptures record that they took up stones to throw at Him (see John 8:59). It is also why John wrote in the prologue to His Gospel
He came unto his own, and his own received him not. John 1:11
It was Philip who said to Jesus Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus could have replied saying ―Sorry, I cannot do that Philip. No one can see the Father and live. Instead He replied
Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. John 14:9-10
Jesus seems to be surprised. The disciples had confessed Him to be the Son of God (Matthew 14:33, 16:16, John 1:49). They also knew He claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 16:16-17, John 5:18, John 9:35). They knew too that this was what the Scribes and Pharisees held against Him (John 5:18). They would even have known that this had been the testimony of God Himself (Matthew 3:17, 17:5). They still though, so it seems, had failed to recognise His true identity. It was just as though Jesus was saying to them, Are you saying that even though I have been with you for over 3 years you still don‘t know who I really am? Christ then said
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. John 14:11
Christ‘s words are again the reiteration of the great truth that He spoke to the Jews when He said
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
Too long...and it testifies that your doctrine has departed from the simplicity of the true gospel.

2Co 11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I take issue with the section in your post that I have highlighted in larger print. Everything else substantiates the real truth...the only problem being that you seem to think it is teaching that Jesus is the archangel Michael. (for the sake of the onlooker I say that I know this because of our history).
 
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B

brakelite

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Too long...and it testifies that your doctrine has departed from the simplicity of the true gospel.

2Co 11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I take issue with the section in your post that I have highlighted in larger print. Everything else substantiates the real truth...the only problem being that you seem to think it is teaching that Jesus is the archangel Michael. (for the sake of the onlooker I say that I know this because of our history).
Irrespective of my views re Michael, for they are irrelevant, let us discuss that italicised/bolded part you disagree with,
Not another God...Is the Son of God another God meaning we have two Gods?
not the same God...Are the Father and Son one and the same being we call God?
but a different personality altogether...Without trampling upon sacred ground, surely we can accept the Father and Son as two distinct personalities...call them both God...but assigning the position of supremacy to the Father as the One True God as Jesus Himself addressed Him?
 

justbyfaith

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not the same God...Are the Father and Son one and the same being we call God?

Yes, they are...for there is one God...

Jas 2:19, Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

the Father and the Son are one

Jhn 10:30, I and my Father are one.


There is one Lord

Eph 4:5, One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

and that is the Father

Mat 11:25, At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Luk 10:21, In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.


However no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost

1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


And also:

Rom 8:9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 
B

brakelite

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Then you are turning Christ into some sort of schizophrenic talking to Himself in prayer. He said we also can be one, just as the Father and the Son are one. Does that mean we become God too? Or perhaps what Jesus was meaning we become one in purpose, spirit, and love, just as He and the Father are. One...not the same.
 

justbyfaith

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The same Spirit, the same Lord, the same God...

1Co 12:4, Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5, And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6, And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
 

justbyfaith

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Then you are turning Christ into some sort of schizophrenic talking to Himself in prayer.

The Father inhabiteth eternity

Isa 57:15, For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.


The Son was on earth

Jhn 1:14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

They are the same Person

Isa 9:6, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

yet distinct; in that the Son dwells in flesh but the Father is entirely a Spirit...

1Jo 4:1, Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2, Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


Jhn 4:23, But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The Father dwells in the Son; and whoever sees the Son sees the Father:

Jhn 14:7, If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8, Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9, Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11, Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Jesus is the Father:

Jhn 14:9, Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Isa 9:6, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
 
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