Same thing is here. Jesus's "siblings".
And while it may not prove Mary was a virgin in and of itself, that is where is is headed.
Jesus's "siblings"
- Thread starter Sigma
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And while it may not prove Mary was a virgin in and of itself, that is where is is headed.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
+1
I found an interesting point in paragraph 2... skimmed the references in the 1st post... and didn't touch the other 2 posts.
The world today doesn't have the attention span for this kind of writing. We might be poorer for it, but effective communication must be concise.
If you were able to read all of my post, you would've seen I laid out my position clearly throughout, and that even the final paragraph of my opening post summarizes my position, which is that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were not His half-siblings, but rather His cousins.
So, you do believe that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and unnamed sisters in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were His half-siblings?
It's precisely because what I'm refuting in this thread doesn't in and of itself prove the Blessed Virgin Mary's perpetual virginity that that is why the latter is not where this thread is headed, at least not by my doing.
Some believe that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His half-siblings. However, they're not called "siblings," nor "half-siblings," but rather His "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi;brothers). This Koine Greek words has the following definitions: "fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman, or relative," etc.
The context of Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 shows the definition "kinsman/kinswoman, or relative" applies, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc., and information needed to determine the type of family members that apply here is lacking in those same verses.
You assume Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were Jesus's half-siblings, but you haven't provided evidence to support that (post #3 gives you the opportunity to do so), whereas I actually provided evidence that shows they were His cousins.
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I didn't invent that some believe Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and unnamed sisters in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were His half-siblings. Again, do you also believe Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and unnamed sisters in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were His half-siblings?
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
The issue here is that you're trying to put a difference between "half-brothers" and "cousins," while the culture at the time made no such distinction.
The term "brethren" includes full brothers, half-brothers, step-brothers, cousins, double cousins, anyone adopted by your parents or uncles... basically anyone who is related who is in the same generation is part of your "brethren."
Why do you want to make a distinction that the Bible does not?
The term "brethren" includes full brothers, half-brothers, step-brothers, cousins, double cousins, anyone adopted by your parents or uncles... basically anyone who is related who is in the same generation is part of your "brethren."
Why do you want to make a distinction that the Bible does not?
Only half siblings inasmuch as like Jesus all the others were Mary's naturally born children fathered by her husband Joseph, whilst Jesus' father was God.
Your posts were miles too long. I make a point of not reading right through such long ponderous posts. They can be boring.
Again, some believe Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His half-siblings. However, they're not called "siblings," nor "half-siblings," but rather His "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi;brothers). This Koine Greek word has the following definitions: "fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman, or relative," etc.
The context of Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 shows the definition "kinsman, or relative" applies, but one's kinsman/relative could be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc., and information needed to determine the type of family members that apply here is lacking in those same verses.
There are those who assume Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were Jesus's half-siblings, but they haven't provided evidence to support that (post #3 gives them the opportunity to do so), whereas I actually provided evidence that shows they were His cousins.
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Sure you did. Well maybe you didn't "invent" the idea-- that would be rather bold, but certainly you conjured up the idea from folks who insist this must be.
Go ahead. Provide the chapter and verse that state these were his 'half-siblings.'
It's only by insistence that the idea exists. Scripture doesn't state it. Reality doesn't require it.
So, you believe that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were His half-siblings. However, they're not called "siblings," nor "half-siblings," but rather His "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi;brothers). This Koine Greek word has the following definitions: "fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman, or relative," etc.
The context of Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 shows the definition "kinsman, or relative" applies, but one's kinsman/relative could be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc., and information needed to determine the type of family members that apply here is lacking in those same verses.
You assume Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were Jesus's half-siblings, but you haven't provided evidence to support that (post #3 gives you the opportunity to do so), whereas I actually provided evidence that shows they were His cousins.
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Again, I never said Scripture states that Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were His half-siblings, but rather states they were His "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi;brothers). This Koine Greek word has the following definitions: "fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman, or relative," etc.
The context of Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 shows the definition "kinsman, or relative" applies, but one's kinsman/relative could be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc., and information needed to determine the type of family members that apply here is lacking in those same verses.
There are those who assume Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were Jesus's half-siblings, but haven't provided evidence to support that (post #3 gives them the opportunity to do so), whereas I actually provided evidence that shows they were His cousins.
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You're too clever for me. All that means absolutely nothing I can understand. Jesus had brothers and sisters - siblings in other words - all born of the same mother who was Mary. The father of these brothers and sisters of Jesus was Joseph, Marys lawful husband. They had sex and produced children. I do not understand the point you are making and I don't think anybody else does either. What's with all the list of names? Whatever they were called makes absolutely no difference to the Gospel or the saving grace of God. To you it seems important but I'm sorry but it isn't important to me.
Maybe they were his cousins as I'm sure he had some cousins but why are you spending so much time on something that is of little importance?
You provide conjecture, that contradicts what scripture says.
But hang on. Help is on the way. I'm going to try to help you over your mental obstacle.
James to the rescue!
Nowhere in Matt. 13:55/Mk.6:3, or anywhere else in Scripture, are Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) called the sons of Joseph and Mary, nor are they called Jesus's "siblings," or "half-siblings," but rather His "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi;brothers). One of the definitions for this Koine Greek word is "kinsman, or relative," and one's kinsman could be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc.
Why are you assuming and claiming as fact that Jesus's kinsmen/relatives Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His half-siblings when that isn't what they're called in Scripture, and you haven't presented any evidence to show that they were His half-siblings?
I've shown that Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were Jesus's cousins.
I'm spending so much time on refuting what's false with the truth. Since when is that of little importance?
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I've provided actual evidence, scriptural verses and testimonies that corroborate each other, whereas those who state Jesus's had half-siblings have provided zilch, nor attempted to answer the questions in post #3 like I did that give them the opportunity to defend their position.
To be absolutely honest with you @Sigma, you have shown nothing of the sort.
I'm not claiming any such thing. I only know that Jesus had a brother called James and one called John. As for the others . . . . ?
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